Part 2 of Magpul Remington 870 forend mod for Saiga-12

[Fitty% 808]

Just me going over my Saiga-12. What Ive done and things Ive had or want to get done.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFP8WVZjcUQ

[Paulyski 2,227]

 

I've had to warranty 3 total units since I began. 2 ended up mentioned on youtube. lol

And people wonder why I'm so anal on doing things ways that take 2-3 times as long as standard....

Murphy's law. That's why.

 

That's a good thing though believe it or not.

 

That, was the Left side charger that led to me re engineering all left side charger installations to this to make them virtually indestructible sans a sledgehammer, as opposed to welding a butt-weld to the most convenient spot on the left side;

 

 

 

Have you torture tested the hell out of it?

Offer still stands. $100.00 if you can get the welds to fail.

 

 

That was also the instance that ultimately led to the upgrade of the factory left side mount increasing the base first like this;

 

 

 

 

And enlarge the vertical charger's mounts, extending them rearward at the carrier as well as increasing their size 200% each way like this;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

No matter what the abuse these bitches get.... There damn sure ain't gonna be another youtube video haunting me over that shit.

[Fitty% 808]

Sorry man...didnt want ti piss you off and didnt think I would. I have only shot the shit out of it but not anything to try to break it again.

[rnemhrd 165]

Nice vid, I had to show my wife the beginning. Thats the same shit I say to my Lab almost every day after work when I come in the house. I was laughing my ass off.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Sorry man...didnt want ti piss you off and didnt think I would. I have only shot the shit out of it but not anything to try to break it again.

no worries brother, it doesn't.

A larger knurled left side charger being welded to the spot on the front left part of the carrier wasn't the way to go, especially not on a longer one like I initially did for you.

Too much force-leverage acting as a torsion stress at the joint, RIGHT where the carrier it's connected to is smacking into the front trunnion.

It led to me taking a closer look at how it could be improved & brought to another level.

The style you have now can withstand the abuse of firing 3" magnum slugs with the gas wide open. You'll split the carrier & snap the op-rod before ever having any issues with the new style mount.

 

Same thing with the verticals. I could do a great joint, but then there;s the carrier's nub, which was looking like a weak link. That's where the new mount I'm doing now came from.

 

I have close to 150 handles out there now, and I've had 3 issues. The first was one that I gouged the knurl of right at the end.

The customer was riding my ass like there was no tomorrow, and I needed to ship that day.

So, I tried to take a shortcut, and do a mid-shaft weld to weld just another head on.

Well, unfortunately, my TIG welder was taking a shit that day and I had lousy penetration, then on top of that, a mid-shaft weld must take the vibration and that really stresses it....

 

Well, Go figure......

The customer was a shooting partner of forum member evlblkwpnz.

Motherfucker ran me so through the ringer, that I made damn sure I never let anybody rush me again, for ANY reason.

Also, I decided mid-shaft welds were a no-no too, and ever since that unit, went an extra step and never again butt-welded them. I decided regardless of setup, to always begin welding from the side, and doing an inside corner weld.

That increased the strength of the joint by 100% over what it was previously.

 

Later, when Inner Demons came about, I decided to go even further, and actually build the handles up all the way to the carrier. This makes my handles by far the strongest available bar-none from anything that I've seen out there, so regardless of operator error leading to abuse, they can stand up to anything they may come across if people forget to regulate their gas between low-brass & magnum rounds.

Same with your new mounting style.

 

The current left side charger is encased in steel, then milled down so it has support up the yin-yang, then it's properly heat treated.

That one having its issue is what motivated me to revamp that process.

 

The third failure was my first-ever RaceGun Dogleg VCH.

Those things are so damn long & weird, they're not for shooting anything other than low brass. They vibrate like a tuning fork.

Well, the first was a prototype, and that was understood going into it, so I figure it's not really a failure, but because of it, the RaceGun Dogleg was revamped to increase its mid-shaft strength, like seen on this rifle;

 

 

 

Which reminds me, I want to get that back in here so I can do its mount like I'm currently doing them for strength.

The length of those RaceGun DogLegs are just off the hook, but coupled with the larger mounts now, I'm pretty sure they'll hold up to the S-12's madness.

The rifles don't get the shock from the puc like the shotguns do, so it's easier on them, but they were just sketchy on shotguns, so I talked all the shotgun guys out of them.

 

So yeah, it doesn't piss me off by any means.

Yours & evl's friend's motivated the process development that brought my stuff to the level it is today.

Sure, it's humbling to be reminded, but that's the motivating force that brings what I do to where I bring it.

 

With the upturned chargers being large and subject to a very wide range of stresses, the question of long term strength under adverse conditions has been a question,

I do several a month, and have seen what works great and what, well.. not so much.

The solution is to fabricate the handle all the way to the carrier extending the base then up the handle and specifically design the mount to combat torsion stresses like done in the pieces pictured above.

The only problem I find, is it takes a while to build them like that compared to doing the old way, which generally hold up well to all but the most harsh use.

So the question then becomes, "How do you like seeing mention of one of your failures on random youtube clips?"

And the answer is; "fuck that, I'm over-engineering everything that leaves these doors."

 

That's what drives quality in the free-market system. If people go to the guy doing it the best, other's will in theory step up their game, and the whole platform and industry gains.

Silence on the other hand, leads to industry complacency & the end result would be mediocrity across the board.

Those of us who make these enhancements MUST be held to a higher standard than a hobbyist, as our work goes on firearms that must be able to be depended on.

[bitters 6]

Good video, although your editing was tripping me out (I'm possibly drunk).

[AJ Dual 43]

I just want to say thanks to BLK-HWK-VET. His video on putting a Magpul 870 fore end on the Saiga got me going on this great mod! Mine was just a Dremel job, but the fit is great, and incredibly solid and tight. It fits so well, I'm going to have to test it with a range outing first to see if it actually moves on me at all. Pulling on it as hard as I can, it doesn't budge a bit, and I haven't felt the need to put the aluminum bar in for the receiver gap yet.

 

Total time invested so far is just under an hour.

 

 

I used coarse grit Dremel sanding drums to make the initial cut. I only have a single speed unit, if anyone goes this route, I recommend using a variable speed tool, and going with as slow an RPM as possible to avoid melting/smoking the plastic. It STINKS, probably isn't healthy for you, and it will clog up the grit on the sanding drum. (You can see the clogged drum with about a 1/8" thick coating of plastic on it.)

 

 

Here it is opened up, you can see more of the drums I sacrificed in the process. Then I trued up the edges of the cut with a sharp wood chisel, and then a toothed mill-file. The Magpul plastic is some seriously hard stuff (for plastic) and things like files/rasps will work well on it.

 

 

Instead of going for a set width or measurements I just kept test-fitting as I filed, until I got a really tight snap-in fit. The lower tubular part that would have grabbed the slide and action bars on the 870 gets a very nice tight fit around the Saiga's barrel. And the two "rails" left over from the inner tube you need to cut open butt up against the forward gas block/FSB on my Saiga perfectly preventing it from sliding forward. And these rails grab into the gap between the gas piston tube and the barrel nicely. It really does not want to move in any direction unless you lever it open and bend the entire fore end like spreading a... er.. taco.

 

With this much contact on the barrel, I do think heat might be an issue if I'm doing lots of mag-dumps, and if it is, I'll just widen everything up, and add in the piece of 1/8" x 1/2" aluminum bar-stock into the bottom groove, and bend it to fit into the receiver gap under the barrel, and drill/tap it for a button-head hex screw, so it rides on that and the gas-block screw instead.

 

And here she is in all her glory.

 

Edited October 25, 2012 by AJ Dual

[Fitty% 808]

Great job AJ Dual! Yeah I went overboard using a Bridgeport mill but I had access to one so I used it lol.

 

If you have seen ant of my other videos you know I do a lot of mag/drum dumps and heat has not been an issue for me. Only thing for me was the hardware came loose slightly from shooting it so much.

 

I'm making a Part 3 of this where I show how to pit it all together.

[ec4321 113]

Would love to see if this can be made to fit properly on a vepr

[Fitty% 808]

Would love to see if this can be made to fit properly on a vepr

 

It could be made to work with a VEPR. If the stock forend gas block screw hole is the same length from the receiver then its easy. If not you would just alter it to fit. I haven't seen a VEPR receiver so I don't know if they have that slot at the front of the receiver to attach the "receiver tab".

[ec4321 113]

There is not a front gas block screw hole on the US Vepr 12s. On the russian ones there is a picitanny on the underside.

 

In looking at the gas block there isn't enough meat there to drill and tap it either.

 

One might be able to trim the sling ears off the stock front hand guard retainer - and drill and tap that to attach to on the front. On the other hand that retainer plate may be to large and interfere with the magpul - so it may need to be removed entirely. Which could mean cutting it or removing the front gas block to get it off without destroying it.

[Garys4598 1,065]

Now that's a fine looking forend handguard. Congrats on the ingenuity of what you did. . . . .. . . .

 

Can't help but to wonder whether this Magpul forend could be made to fit a Saiga rifle equally as well? You've got me thinking. . . and that's always dangerous to me.

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Edited October 25, 2012 by Gary

[MS-12 4]

Don't mean to highjack your thread, but just wanted to share a comment on what Pauly was talking about:

 

Pauly, I think I just had crappy worksmanship done to the Galil charge handle that was installed by my local shop. I had just recently got my S12 back after waiting 6+ months for a conversion and recently the charge handle snapped off and almost hit me on the face! I don't even have close 500 rounds through it yet...all bird shot with a few buck sprinkled in. Anyway, your reply got me to thinking that I should have sent it to you instead I'm giving them a chance to fix it up for me, but if I'm not satisfied with the results then I will definitely be sending it you way.

 

OP, you S12 look awesome with this mod. Nice and clean!