SKS_madman 0 Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Why has noone produced a domestic made drum mag in hi-capacity? seems to me you guys would cough up big bucks for a 20 or 25 round drum ($150?)... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 Why has noone produced a domestic made drum mag in hi-capacity? seems to me you guys would cough up big bucks for a 20 or 25 round drum ($150?)... If you are referring to the saiga rifles thirty round mags are available through one means or another....other than the .308. If you are referring to the Saiga 12 and 20 ga. shotties, others have explored the idea including Knox (who had developed a prototype and planned production with a scheduled release date) but reached the conclusion that if the Saiga went DD as a result of the drums, they did not want to face the angry mob comprised of current owners and those hopefuls awaiting the first boatload of new Saigas RAAC is importing. Most Saiga owners are happy with 8 and the possibility of a 10 round stick magazine. I mean, hell, if you ain't finished the job you can always swap out the mag and keep moving. Besides you'd have to have some damn big arms to hold up the shotgun, drum magazine, and 25 rounds, wouldn't you? Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crosshair 1 Posted November 13, 2005 Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 I'm thinking along the lines of a 7.62x39 drum mag, though it doesn't matter to me now since I just got 10 AK mags for $60. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SKS_madman 0 Posted November 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2005 I'm thinking along the lines of a 7.62x39 drum mag, though it doesn't matter to me now since I just got 10 AK mags for $60. Good deal man! Where did you pick those up? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SKS_madman 0 Posted November 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Why has noone produced a domestic made drum mag in hi-capacity? seems to me you guys would cough up big bucks for a 20 or 25 round drum ($150?)... If you are referring to the saiga rifles thirty round mags are available through one means or another....other than the .308. If you are referring to the Saiga 12 and 20 ga. shotties, others have explored the idea including Knox (who had developed a prototype and planned production with a scheduled release date) but reached the conclusion that if the Saiga went DD as a result of the drums, they did not want to face the angry mob comprised of current owners and those hopefuls awaiting the first boatload of new Saigas RAAC is importing. Most Saiga owners are happy with 8 and the possibility of a 10 round stick magazine. I mean, hell, if you ain't finished the job you can always swap out the mag and keep moving. Besides you'd have to have some damn big arms to hold up the shotgun, drum magazine, and 25 rounds, wouldn't you? Wolverine I posted a reply to this earlier, where did it go? I said I meant the "oddball" saigas, ones that aren't in a military caliber. like the s-12 and the s-100 30'06. As a side note, a polymer drum with a 20 round capacity would only weigh in at about 3#. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crosshair 1 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 SKS_madman Good deal man! Where did you pick those up? From a guy over at THR. He sold his AK and needed cash. Need to go test them. I also picked up 400 Winchester 7.62x54R cases from him for $100 as well. So all total it was $160 SHIPPED. I really lucked out. Someday all the surplus will run out, my Rock Chucker and I will be ready. Finding reloadable, reasonably priced 7.62x54R cases is hard. Almost got 500 cases for $100, but some guy beat me to the first 100. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Why has noone produced a domestic made drum mag in hi-capacity? seems to me you guys would cough up big bucks for a 20 or 25 round drum ($150?)... If you are referring to the saiga rifles thirty round mags are available through one means or another....other than the .308. If you are referring to the Saiga 12 and 20 ga. shotties, others have explored the idea including Knox (who had developed a prototype and planned production with a scheduled release date) but reached the conclusion that if the Saiga went DD as a result of the drums, they did not want to face the angry mob comprised of current owners and those hopefuls awaiting the first boatload of new Saigas RAAC is importing. Most Saiga owners are happy with 8 and the possibility of a 10 round stick magazine. I mean, hell, if you ain't finished the job you can always swap out the mag and keep moving. Besides you'd have to have some damn big arms to hold up the shotgun, drum magazine, and 25 rounds, wouldn't you? Wolverine I posted a reply to this earlier, where did it go? I said I meant the "oddball" saigas, ones that aren't in a military caliber. like the s-12 and the s-100 30'06. As a side note, a polymer drum with a 20 round capacity would only weigh in at about 3#. SkS Madman, All you have to do is go NFA and pay your $200 and you can buy a drum based DD shotgun if that is what you really want. If Knox has decided to steer clear of (drums for) the Saigas there must be a very good reason for passing on the potential profit. Most of us understand the rationale. If you made a first class functional drum for the S-12 and were out letting her rip either at the range or on private property and the local county mountie came to checkout the rapid fire noise what do you think the cops response would be to a drummed 12 ga. shotgun with no particular permit or paperwork? I suspect they would take the drum and maybe the shotgun and leave you a receipt while they checked out the legality. Not wanting to make a mistake they would contact state law enforcement who would scan the books for violations and likely contact BATFE as to the federal implications. Since the shotgun is approved for importation in a particular configuration and for "sporting" purposes there would be an issue with the drums.....and perhaps future importation of the Saigas. From there the snowball would begin rolling downhill. If you read the past threads you will see this subject has been hashed many times over. While I think you have the Constitutional right to any firearm or drum you want, state and federal (including BATFE) authorities don't agree. And from where I sit it looks as though they got the power to take your guns, fine you penniless, or lock you up in a cell with Bubba if they don't like what you are doing. So let's all relax and enjoy our Saigas with our high-cap stick mags. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jaffa Killer 0 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 This seems like a good time to ask a question.What would the law say about making say, a 30 round drum for the 410??? Would it be declared a DD??? Cause as i understand it,the 410 is not considered a shotgun. So,would it be like making a drum for a rifle or what? Cause i got a design thought up in my head for one,and i wanna know if i ever followed through and built it,would it be legal? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rusty 0 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 (edited) 12Ga and 30-06 aren't military calibers? Or just not Russian Military calibers? Edit: Jaffa Killer: At $8+/25 rounds, That would get to be a weee bit expensive Edited November 14, 2005 by Rusty Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 This seems like a good time to ask a question.What would the law say about making say, a 30 round drum for the 410??? Would it be declared a DD??? Cause as i understand it,the 410 is not considered a shotgun.So,would it be like making a drum for a rifle or what? Cause i got a design thought up in my head for one,and i wanna know if i ever followed through and built it,would it be legal? No, it would not be a DD because the bore is less the .50 caliber. The 12 and 20 would be the issue as bore diameter exceeds the .50 threshhold. I have four ten round counter type .410 mags and my defense and rationale is like yours. It is perfectly legal to have a ten round (rifle) mag out to the range..........just not when hunting in Michigan. Thus the reason for keeping and using the five rounders. Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crosshair 1 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 We need to get rid of the sporting purposes clause and make the over .50 cal DD rule only apply to rifled barrels. Meaning shotguns would be exempt. Yea, it is a way's away, but I can dream, can't I. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 there are plenty of paradox (rifled) shotgun barrels out there. what else would you ban? paradox chokes too? how about my flintlock? what about my buddy's black powder collection? they tried that shit in NY. it didnt pass exactly because of that reason....the assholes backing it in the NRA realised suddenly that they would lose half of thier non-military "you dont need that" guns, and quickly changed thier mind. anyway, intersting thing with the 410. I didnt ask too much specific, but I had called up the head of the game and wildlife division of the DEC here a ways back, plus loads of other people, when I was trying to figure out the NY law on saiga 12 conversions, even though I cant own the 8 round mag here. I did ask the guy while I was on the subject, about converting the 410. he said in that respect, HE would consider the .410 a shotgun, and thus would be illegal for me to PG convert it. And he is one that interprets the law for his branch of LEO to go by. But who knows, maybe he doesnt know a damn thing, but I would think a game warden would know if a 410 is a shotgun or not, especially the boss of NY DEC from albany. nice guy, by the way. Nicer than the rest of the different officfials I spoke to. the 410 is still a shotgun, as it is designed primarily to fire multiple projectiles down its bore from a single cartridge. its use isnt permitted during a lot of game seasons because it isnt considered to be powerful enough to kill most animals larger than a dog. I know that isnt "heres this law and heres that law", and also Im not using names, or specific quotes, but that is the jyst of what I was told. you can bet I would have bought up the 410's for 150 bucks and converted them and resold them for 400 last winter like I was looking into, if it was legal for me to convert the 410 in NY. it MUST not be a rifle, because i can do the rifle conversions here. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SKS_madman 0 Posted November 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 Crosshair, you are one lucky SOB!! Also, the 7.62X54R is still in service, and the ammo we are getting now is whats being sold off in the stockpiles as to old. So we are good to go for at least another 20 years on the X54R ammo. Wolverine, I didn't think about it that way! I guess if I WESCOG a mag I'll have to just keep it in breathitt county where the chief of police is my uncle. Rusty, I meant the non-military AK calibers (calibers that the AK was not chambered in for military purposes, these are so far as I know all of them except 7.62X39 and 5.45X39) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Crosshair 1 Posted November 14, 2005 Report Share Posted November 14, 2005 SKS_madman Also, the 7.62X54R is still in service, and the ammo we are getting now is whats being sold off in the stockpiles as to old. So we are good to go for at least another 20 years on the X54R ammo. Yea, but you never know what will happen. I will at least be able to load some match grade 7.62x54R if the need ever arises. 7.62x54R works at a relativly low pressure so brass life should be good. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SKS_madman 0 Posted November 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 SKS_madmanAlso, the 7.62X54R is still in service, and the ammo we are getting now is whats being sold off in the stockpiles as to old. So we are good to go for at least another 20 years on the X54R ammo. Yea, but you never know what will happen. I will at least be able to load some match grade 7.62x54R if the need ever arises. 7.62x54R works at a relativly low pressure so brass life should be good. Good point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jtoddellis 2 Posted November 15, 2005 Report Share Posted November 15, 2005 Aren't you too young to be smoking? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SKS_madman 0 Posted November 16, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2005 Aren't you too young to be smoking? Not legally. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
marz 0 Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 so its legal to have a 30rd .410 but a 30 rd 12 gauge is illegal? fucking stupid gun haters making stupid laws Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SKS_madman 0 Posted November 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 (edited) so its legal to have a 30rd .410 but a 30 rd 12 gauge is illegal? fucking stupid gun haters making stupid laws A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity. Makes this point quite clear, those to dim to defend themselves wish to infringe on the rights of others for "safety". Sheeple are to dim to realize that the 2A is the only one keeping the others from being tread on. Edited November 20, 2005 by SKS_madman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted November 20, 2005 Report Share Posted November 20, 2005 SKSMadman, for once, I am in total agreement with you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SKS_madman 0 Posted November 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 SKSMadman, for once, I am in total agreement with you! I think I just wet myself... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 What 'ring said! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 SKSMadman, for once, I am in total agreement with you! I think I just wet myself... We'll be looking for the photos in the funny section. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted November 21, 2005 Report Share Posted November 21, 2005 so its legal to have a 30rd .410 but a 30 rd 12 gauge is illegal? fucking stupid gun haters making stupid laws It is NOT illegal. It is the POTENTIAL for the BATF to rule them a DD arbitrarily (a provision that only exists for shotguns), and that scares people. There is no law prohibiting it. It is only the potential for a ruling which is actually illegitimate in the first place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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