homepage shotgun

[SKS_madman 0]

What model do I buy to most easily convert one to that config? I will be doing other (under the skin) mods, but the length/PG conversion is just what I want.

[Bvamp 604]

I thought you said you were 15 or something? you cant buy a gun until you are 18. soyou shouldnt ask "what model should I buy" first off.

 

second, that configuration you see with the russian stock has a short barrel on it. meaning it appears to be less than 18" long, in which case the person that cuts the barrel to that length must be licensed to do that for one, and secondly, you need a permit for it. it is commonly called a tax stamp, but its a permit. to get the permit, you have to ask a government official to sign off on your tax stamp. then you can pay a couple hundred bucks to get your stamp.

 

the tutorials on this board are there to read on how to do the basic PG conversion, and I believe the legal issues are addressed in most of them as well.

[SKS_madman 0]

I thought you said you were 15 or something? you cant buy a gun until you are 18. soyou shouldnt ask "what model should I buy" first off.

 

second, that configuration you see with the russian stock has a short barrel on it. meaning it appears to be less than 18" long, in which case the person that cuts the barrel to that length must be licensed to do that for one, and secondly, you need a permit for it. it is commonly called a tax stamp, but its a permit. to get the permit, you have to ask a government official to sign off on your tax stamp. then you can pay a couple hundred bucks to get your stamp.

 

the tutorials on this board are there to read on how to do the basic PG conversion, and I believe the legal issues are addressed in most of them as well.

Oh god here we go..... YES, I am 15, but "I" won't be buying it, my dad will. Does this alleviate your fears? I hope so, because thats the best I can do.

 

I know all the laws (and tax stamp regs) concerning SBRs and SBSs, IIRC the fee is $200? the saiga will have an 18.5 inch barrel to avoid the federal regs and save $200.

 

 

I have been reading through these, the basic conversion seems easy enough.

 

BTW, how hard does a saiga with an 18.5 inch barrel and a PG stock (military AK style) kick without a butt pad?

[Bvamp 604]

I can dump five rounds one handed into a chest sized target at ten feet in 3 seconds? does that help with your kick question? The recoil is less than any other 12 gauge Ive shot, but I have no idea what it translates into in terms of foot pounds of energy per square inch on the stock buttplate.

[SKS_madman 0]

I can dump five rounds one handed into a chest sized target at ten feet in 3 seconds? does that help with your kick question? The recoil is less than any other 12 gauge Ive shot, but I have no idea what it translates into in terms of foot pounds of energy per square inch on the stock buttplate.

That answeres my question 100%, ft lbs of energy would just be a number to me as I have no figures to compare it to. sounds like there is very little recoil for a 12 gauge.

[AegisDei 2]

Also check into ways of reducing recoil. The best way is to use a buffer (blackjack works great), but some kind of compensator helps and a buttpad helps.

 

Just to see what it's like I've shot my 12ga one handed with a slug. I'm not gonna say it was pretty, but due to the weight of the gun, compensator, and buffer I could deal with it and would not be terrified to do it again. I'd not suggest one handed shots, but it's doable. I just can't wait til I have my S20 done...can we say two fisting saigas?

 

Recoil from the shoulder is fairly light since it is gas assist semi-auto. The inertia operated semi-autos hurt. First time I shot a $1000 Benelli I thought it would shoot gentler than my "cheap Saiga" and boy was I wrong. I gave it back to the owner after 3 shots and continued with my gun the rest of the day. I've gone through 25+ slugs without any bruises, but even more importantly I haven't developed a flinch. Bruises heal, but flinches are tough to fix.

 

Rock on that you're 15 and into firearms already, without the youth's support I doubt if the 2nd ammendment will survive another two generations. So practice gun safety and keep supporting the shooting sports!

[SKS_madman 0]

Also check into ways of reducing recoil. The best way is to use a buffer (blackjack works great), but some kind of compensator helps and a buttpad helps.

 

Just to see what it's like I've shot my 12ga one handed with a slug. I'm not gonna say it was pretty, but due to the weight of the gun, compensator, and buffer I could deal with it and would not be terrified to do it again. I'd not suggest one handed shots, but it's doable. I just can't wait til I have my S20 done...can we say two fisting saigas?

 

Recoil from the shoulder is fairly light since it is gas assist semi-auto. The inertia operated semi-autos hurt. First time I shot a $1000 Benelli I thought it would shoot gentler than my "cheap Saiga" and boy was I wrong. I gave it back to the owner after 3 shots and continued with my gun the rest of the day. I've gone through 25+ slugs without any bruises, but even more importantly I haven't developed a flinch. Bruises heal, but flinches are tough to fix.

 

Rock on that you're 15 and into firearms already, without the youth's support I doubt if the 2nd ammendment will survive another two generations. So practice gun safety and keep supporting the shooting sports!

I've been reading through the FAQ section, so far I've added up the stuff I want to do to an S12 (will take a summer's work but I'm up for it).

 

PG conversion (duh!)

blackjack buffer

hogue pad

cut down to 18.5 (I'd go down to 16" but the federal regs are a bitch like that)

have one of those integral compensators consisting of several holes on the top of the barrel drilled at a rearward slant added

after I get it going 100% I will refinish with duracoat or alumahyde2.

 

 

BTW, here is "my" collection (I'm obsessed with russian designes )

Mosin nagant 1891 1916 finnish capture

Mosin nagant 1891 1917 (not finn capture)

Mosin nagant 1891 1921 finnish capture

Mosin nagant 1944 (can't remember the date off the top of my head)

yugoslavian 59/66

yugoslavian M48 mauser (bought from mitchell's mausers, its in factory new condition without a scratch )

WASR-10GP

My dad has more but I don't have time to list them...

 

[inparidel 4]

Welcome, and kudos for your balls and determination to jump on an adult site and get the info you need! Glad to have you aboard here, and glad to have you aboard for a lifetime of defending out precious 2nd Amendment! Nice collection--a good start anyway. .

 

As was mentioned, The recoil difference and relaibility alone shows the Benelli meatbal shooter overpriced pieces of crap for what they really are. My club is actually waking up and beginning to respect my Siaga, AND they are looking to get some. The cream, and the truth, rises to the top.

[Jaffa Killer 0]

Hey, just wanted to let you know your not the only 15 year old on here. This forum is a great place to get info, actually,prolly the only place to get info on conversion questions.

[topmaul 42]

As was mentioned, The recoil difference and relaibility alone shows the Benelli meatbal shooter overpriced pieces of crap for what they really are. My club is actually waking up and beginning to respect my Siaga, AND they are looking to get some. The cream, and the truth, rises to the top.

 

 

People at my club are also seeing the light too. When I first showed up it was a little rough now we are spanking 95% of the Auto shooters and 100% of the pumpers. I really want to see a win for "Team Saiga" this Saturday and a clean sweep at the top.

[icarus 3]

second, that configuration you see with the russian stock has a short barrel on it. meaning it appears to be less than 18" long, in which case the person that cuts the barrel to that length must be licensed to do that for one, and secondly, you need a permit for it. it is commonly called a tax stamp, but its a permit. to get the permit, you have to ask a government official to sign off on your tax stamp. then you can pay a couple hundred bucks to get your stamp.

 

the tutorials on this board are there to read on how to do the basic PG conversion, and I believe the legal issues are addressed in most of them as well.

 

It is an actual tax stamp not a permit. NFA weapons are regulated by the Treasury Dept. The $200 is a tax not a fee. It is supposed to be paid by the person selling the NFA weapon but traditionally the buyer pays it.

[jman 0]

Well, I remember way back in the dark ages when I got my first 12ga. at the tender age of 13. And that was my 4th long gun, I also had two hand guns. It's kind of like learning music or a 2nd laguuage. The younger you start the better off you are in the end.

Welcome to the club!

[Bvamp 604]

icarus: I know its a tax stamp, not a permit. but it is a lot LIKE a permit. you are supposed to keep your nice govt. issue tax page with the gun, from the ones I have seen on tables at shows with 10" pump guns, M60's, and other nice hardware that is such a hellacious crime for ordinary people to just have without uncle sam's permission/fee.

 

You have to get someone to write off on the tax stamp too in your area, and if they dont, then what?

[Caspian 32]

You have to get someone to write off on the tax stamp too in your area, and if they dont, then what?

 

if you've exhausted all the options (Chief of police, sheriff, District Atty, State Patrol, etc) then you incorporate yourself as a business and buy it through the corpoation. No sign off needed.

 

What you've probably seen on the tables at the gun shows next to the NFA weapons is the dealers license showing that the guy was able to deal in Title II stuff. I doubt they had the Form 4 or Form 1 on the table. those are too valuable to leave in the open. if the paperwork were to disappear, it is a big pain in the ass to get a replacement.

 

caspian

[Bvamp 604]

no, the one particular gun table had the stamps right there with each gun. Plus there was huge signs on the table DO NOT TOUCH! DO NOT LEAN ON TABLE! With a couple big dudes standing there with machine pistols on thier hips. Cracked me up, actually.

 

what kind of business would that be caspian? Im not sure how that is a loophole, and if it is a loophole, it sure sounds like a shadey one to me. kind of like the gun shops guys own that are never open, and never go out of business, I guess right?

 

I never wanted a SBS before I saw the one that guy had. pocket pump gun. tinier than hell, and im not sure if you could hit anything past ten feet with it, but it looked pretty cool. I think it took 4 of the minishells or two 3". I couldnt pick it up and look at it closer, so I didnt bother asking much about it. I saw that particfular one in a show at albuqueruq, NM in "the pit". I think the dealer was out of AZ, actually, now that I think about it.

[Caspian 32]

what kind of business would that be caspian? Im not sure how that is a loophole, and if it is a loophole, it sure sounds like a shadey one to me. kind of like the gun shops guys own that are never open, and never go out of business, I guess right?

 

I never wanted a SBS before I saw the one that guy had. pocket pump gun. tinier than hell, and im not sure if you could hit anything past ten feet with it, but it looked pretty cool. I think it took 4 of the minishells or two 3". I couldnt pick it up and look at it closer, so I didnt bother asking much about it. I saw that particfular one in a show at albuqueruq, NM in "the pit". I think the dealer was out of AZ, actually, now that I think about it.

 

The corporation route is fairly common in the NFA community for folks who want the guns but have no one who will sign. The corporation doesn't have to be firearm specific. They can buy the firearms as investments.

 

The shotgun you saw was probably a Serbu Shorty. 20 gauge would be the way to go if you were going that small.

 

Caspian

[epsylum 0]

I can dump five rounds one handed into a chest sized target at ten feet in 3 seconds? does that help with your kick question? The recoil is less than any other 12 gauge Ive shot, but I have no idea what it translates into in terms of foot pounds of energy per square inch on the stock buttplate.

 

 

Yeah the S-12 has very little recoil for a 12 gauge, I can shoot my s12 as quickly and accurately as any of my auto handguns. I am looking to sell my 870 now, the Saiga is THAT good.

[SKS_madman 0]

I can dump five rounds one handed into a chest sized target at ten feet in 3 seconds? does that help with your kick question? The recoil is less than any other 12 gauge Ive shot, but I have no idea what it translates into in terms of foot pounds of energy per square inch on the stock buttplate.

 

 

Yeah the S-12 has very little recoil for a 12 gauge, I can shoot my s12 as quickly and accurately as any of my auto handguns. I am looking to sell my 870 now, the Saiga is THAT good.

Good, I like shooting big guns (M44 mosin carbine, KICKS YOUR FILLINGS OUT!) but the 12 gauge has always seemed to be to big for long outings...

 

 

 

 

ALSO! one question I forgot to ask, what is the thing on top of the gas tube of that shotgun?

Edited November 16, 2005 by SKS_madman

[fullchoke 0]

Sksmadman,

I am 14 and love the saiga. It kicks so little that i can fire it fromt the hip. If you have ever seen the video with the atomatic saiga and that hardass wire folder I have fired that also with Bukshot I am glad to see more young people on this forum to. The Saiga is a great gun for matches. By the way Team Saiga is what we call the guys that shoot the saigas in compitition. What kind of shooting will you be doing with yours?

Eric

[SKS_madman 0]

Sksmadman,

I am 14 and love the saiga. It kicks so little that i can fire it fromt the hip. If you have ever seen the video with the atomatic saiga and that hardass wire folder I have fired that also with Bukshot I am glad to see more young people on this forum to. The Saiga is a great gun for matches. By the way Team Saiga is what we call the guys that shoot the saigas in compitition. What kind of shooting will you be doing with yours?

Eric

Skeet if it is still possible with the shortened barrel and compensator (if I add a compensator can I still use the screw in chokes after having my gunsmith rethread the inside of the barrel? Also HD because semi-auto is easier for me.

[SKS_madman 0]

ALSO! one question I forgot to ask, what is the thing on top of the gas tube of that shotgun?

Ummm, do you guys know? Edited November 18, 2005 by SKS_madman

[icarus 3]

icarus: I know its a tax stamp, not a permit. but it is a lot LIKE a permit. you are supposed to keep your nice govt. issue tax page with the gun, from the ones I have seen on tables at shows with 10" pump guns, M60's, and other nice hardware that is such a hellacious crime for ordinary people to just have without uncle sam's permission/fee.

 

You have to get someone to write off on the tax stamp too in your area, and if they dont, then what?

 

 

I didn't mean to come off as an ass which I guess I sort of did. You are right in that it might as well be a permit because that is what the end result is.....

 

As far as the corporation thing it is true. You would sidestep the tax stamp. It is in here http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/...ist/nfa_faq.txt

along with just about every other federal regulation concerning just about any type of firearm.