scrampop 0 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) I am looking for a way to load my saiga 12 on a closed bolt for competition. I currently shoot my saiga 12 in the open division for competition. I have a MD 20rd drum and 2 8rd factory magazines. I shot a few matches last year including Rockcastle and the current theme seems to be starting with an empty chamber with a closed bolt. I normally have to lock the bolt back on the start signal and load the drum and then release the bolt. However, I am losing a ton of time using this process. I want to keep the drum and have seen the rock and lock product. Has anyone had success with this product. I also noticed that most people recommend getting the bolt profiled and polished possibly by Pauly. However apparently there is a major backlog and getting an accurate turn around time can be very challenging. Can anyone recommend anyone else to do this work or should I wait for Pauly? I really need to be able to shoot this by the end of April. An obligatory pic of the gun has been provided. Thanks for any help Edited February 20, 2013 by ucoamultigun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DoubleTap330 2 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Look up GunFun he has a video about loading on a closed bolt but I'm not sure about a drum . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 The MD drum cannot be loaded on a closed bolt with all 20 rds loaded. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Getting your bolt reprofiled will make a ton of difference. I had mine done and it worked great, takes a little practice. I have since switched to a magwell and run 2 12rds side by side. Good luck 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Get a VEPR 12 and some 12 round SGM mags. You will likely be faster on overall time once you get used to it. If you fumble getting that drum in the Saiga 12, you can quickly lose the advantage that the extra 8 rounds gave you. Sometimes ease of operation can be a greater advantage than increased capacity. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lewie212 37 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 You could run 19 rounds in the drum so it can be loaded on a closed bolt? I'm not sure I would give it a shot though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 20, 2013 Report Share Posted February 20, 2013 Send it to me and you will get it back within a few weeks, guaranteed. I can load any mag in my guns on a closed bolt... including any drum mags made as long as I leave one round out to give the spring room to allow that. That includes mags loaded with 3" shells BTW. Video... And yes that includes Promags, which can be modified to reliably feed 3". Oh and a little LRBHO tease at the end.... Some recent examples of my work.... 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Cobra does Great work, He did mine!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Cobra does Great work, He did mine!! Forget the great work.... he's a great guy! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Look up GunFun he has a video about loading on a closed bolt but I'm not sure about a drum . I am mostly replying because of the link. The guys above have covered it pretty well. It is technically possible to load an MD20 loaded to 19 on a closed bolt, but it is not easy. The only way that is going to be feasable is to get a good reprofiling such as are discussed above. Look up the video, in my link and read the description. I broke down the loading into discrete steps. If you force yourself to pay attention to the small motions within the process you will become faster. More importantly even if you are not lightning fast every time, you will be consistent enough that you won't be wrestling with mags or dropping them ever. Also, I am jealous of you for getting to do the competition thing. I haven't found any competitions with a shotgun stage near where I live. Just pistol/rifle. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 It helps substantially if you are left eye dominant, but right handed. That way, you can fire the gun left handed and can strong-arm in your mags. It's much more difficult for most guys to insert the mags with their weak hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sweetcostarica 18 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Look up GunFun he has a video about loading on a closed bolt but I'm not sure about a drum . I never had any problems loading my factory or any other magazine on my Saiga 12 (S12). Did not do anything to it. I am surprised so many people say they're having this problem. I can not comment on drums though; do not have any because they are too bulky to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gibbles 23 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 The big issue I had were with the fed bulk ammo I run for most of the 3 gun stages, if I load from a closed bolt often enough I would deform the round enough to cause it to not feed the top round. I found it eaiser to yank the bolt back with my left hand, right hand push bolt lock up, drop the mag, reload, and finally twist the gun so I can chamber with my left hand. I got pretty quick at it. Mostly I will only run the drum for the first part of a stage, any reloads are done with stick mags. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 The big issue I had were with the fed bulk ammo I run for most of the 3 gun stages, if I load from a closed bolt often enough I would deform the round enough to cause it to not feed the top round. I found it eaiser to yank the bolt back with my left hand, right hand push bolt lock up, drop the mag, reload, and finally twist the gun so I can chamber with my left hand. I got pretty quick at it. Mostly I will only run the drum for the first part of a stage, any reloads are done with stick mags. Very wise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted February 21, 2013 Report Share Posted February 21, 2013 Look up GunFun he has a video about loading on a closed bolt but I'm not sure about a drum . I am mostly replying because of the link. The guys above have covered it pretty well. It is technically possible to load an MD20 loaded to 19 on a closed bolt, but it is not easy. The only way that is going to be feasable is to get a good reprofiling such as are discussed above. Look up the video, in my link and read the description. I broke down the loading into discrete steps. If you force yourself to pay attention to the small motions within the process you will become faster. More importantly even if you are not lightning fast every time, you will be consistent enough that you won't be wrestling with mags or dropping them ever. Also, I am jealous of you for getting to do the competition thing. I haven't found any competitions with a shotgun stage near where I live. Just pistol/rifle. From the video, I can tell that your passion for the platform runs very deep. I understand it. The loading video is an excellent contribution. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scrampop 0 Posted March 10, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Wow guys thanks for all the great information. I actually shoot pistol left handed and rifle right handed so the motions of the mag change are easy for me. I always start out the stage with the drum and reload with stick mags. My main problem was that all of the major matches I have been to seem to be in the habit of making you start the stage with a closed bolt which I usually end up laying the drum next to it and locking the action inserting the drum and shooting but it takes a lot of time to do that. I think I am going to get the bolt work done. Also Cobra76 two what is this last round bolt hold open you showed in your video? Is this a service you offer and how long have you been installing them? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted March 10, 2013 Report Share Posted March 10, 2013 Cobra doesn't offer it for sale yet. i hope he does soon. The bolt work would probably pay for you if you are set using the drum. IMO a magwell would be faster overall, which is why most compettitors use it. However, If you are using the drum.I think you should practice the hell out of downloading to 19, shouldering the gun and reaching under the receiver to rack the bolt in a smooth motion. Then practice dropping the drum and quickly transitioning to stick mags. JTE also has a magwell with two latches in development which will allow straight insertion of drums or any unmodified stick mags made for rock'n'lock. It won't be quite as fast as current magwells, but it will be more versatile. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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