Turkey Loads - dumb question.

[Ronin38 2,117]

I've read a few reports that say #4 Buck shot would be good for home defense. (Not looking for a long discussion about it. )

 

I've seen boxes of shells in the stores that say "Turkey Loads" and they contain "#4 Shot"...

 

Is that #4 SHOT, or #4 BUCK SHOT??

[csspecs 1,987]

Turkey loads are #4 shot.. #4 Buck is .25 cal... I'll find a chart.

 

http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html

 

 

 

Dia. inchs Dia. MM Pellets per ounce

 

   4 BUCK        |         .24         |      6.10      |         21

 

   4  SHOT       |         .129        |      3.28      |        135

[gunfun 3,931]

+1

 

Except #4 Buck is supposed to be 0.24" and many commercial loads labeled #4 Buck are more like 0.235" because it stacks a little nicer.

 

#4B is often marketed as coyote /predator load. I believe there are some high performance "black cloud" coyote loads that are essentially #4B with a black colored flight control wad.

[XD45 7,124]

[Ronin38 2,117]

Thanks. I've seen all those charts and I know what kind I'm trying to find, I just wasn't sure what the labels are supposed to say.

 

I'll try to find some "coyote" rounds. Not sure they stock those here in OH, there might be more in TX.

 

Did I say that out loud?

Edited March 10, 2013 by Ronin38

[patriot 7,197]

Ammoman.com has buck and slugs in stock.

[Capt Nemo 882]

The FBI says that #1 buck has minimum required penetration for home defense.

[patriot 7,197]

I wonder how many homes the FBI has defended? I know they've shot a few all to hell.

[sccritterkiller 473]

What makes them "turkey loads" is the weight or amount of shot per shell. The turkey loads are usually 1 7/8 oz to 2 1/4 oz. Regular High brass shells of the same shot are usually 1 oz to 1 1/4 oz.

[Capt Nemo 882]

Think of what a perp might be wearing. Things like heavy leather biker jackets, can absorb birdshot hits without penetration though it might sting a bit. I've seen a duck take 9 rounds of 2 3/4" magnum #2 steel full choke at under 20 yards and still fly away, when each hit stripped feathers and knocked it back into the water. That same shot won't penetrate a piece of 1x2 at 25 yards. Penetration was only about 2 pellet diameters deep including the pellet.

 

In the FBI test, rounds that had at least 12" of penetration in gelatin from 10'range were considered acceptable.

[Voltia 375]

When I turkey hunt, I use #4 shot 3.5" magnum shells, or the 3" version, depending on the gun I am using.

I haven't seen a "turkey load" version of a shell with more shot and less powder. One does typically use magnum

loads when you can, which does have more shot (and more powder) due to the longer shell.

 

As for home defense, a lot of people swear by 00 buck, ("double ought")

[Marc 147]

I'm going to "second" the #1 Buck loads for HD, but not because of any testing the FBI has done on it. #1B is the largest size buckshot that still stacks in nice layers inside a 12ga shot-cup, giving you the densest possible pattern with the largest shot size with the most efficient use of the space in the shell as possible.

[sccritterkiller 473]

Think of what a perp might be wearing. Things like heavy leather biker jackets, can absorb birdshot hits without penetration though it might sting a bit. I've seen a duck take 9 rounds of 2 3/4" magnum #2 steel full choke at under 20 yards and still fly away, when each hit stripped feathers and knocked it back into the water. That same shot won't penetrate a piece of 1x2 at 25 yards.

 

If your ducking hunting I am assuming your using steel....It is not as dense as lead so it doesn't have nearly the penetration. That's why they make bismuth and hevi shot shells....If you believe hevi shot's marketing their Hevi 13 is denser than lead...I just use steel....

The secret to duck hunting is to let them land....then let them have it!!!

[Capt Nemo 882]

Groundswatting is frowned upon localy. Plus they're a smaller target area on the water. On the above duck, my 3 shots were at about 20-30 feet. Normally, the #2 I use do the job of bagging 1-2 ducks per shot with very few follow-ups on cripples needed. For Canadian shitbags I pull out the BB and use all three on the way to the ground. No runners after that!

 

If birdshot can't always cut it with birds, It ain't going to cut it with Bubba Ben Dover!

[gunfun 3,931]

The FBI says that #1 buck has minimum required penetration for home defense.

 

Yes, but if you actually read how they did those tests, they also said #4 put more lethal wounds in. So basically, at 1325 FPS for both 16 Pellet #1B and 27 pellet #4b, both had the bulk of the pellets penetrating between 12 and 15 inches (ideal). Obviously, with #4 which has almost double the pellet count, there were way more lethal wound channels. However, the FBI protocol automatically fails a load if any pellets penetrate less than 12". In pretty much all the tests, 3-5 #4 B will go 11 or 11.5" and the rest will go deeper. So if you read their test data in full, the conclusion of the testers was that #4B was significantly more lethal and had a better pattern distribution, but failed the arbirtary standards they made before the test. If you take it in terms of which one is more likely to be effective, the #4B loads came out far in the lead. I'd still take #1B over OOB any day.

 

The other obvious thing is that if you are really worried that the a few of the pellets stopped shorter than 12", you can add velocity. Factories have been making the same loads forever, because that's what people expect, even when in the case of a few popular loads, it has been proven that minor adjustments make a much more effective load. You can even download to an ounce and add velocity and have more lethality with less recoil than with larger diameter shot. The load I have worked up uses 22 pellets (~1 oz of Rem) at ~1400 FPS.

 

I'm going to "second" the #1 Buck loads for HD, but not because of any testing the FBI has done on it. #1B is the largest size buckshot that still stacks in nice layers inside a 12ga shot-cup, giving you the densest possible pattern with the largest shot size with the most efficient use of the space in the shell as possible.

 

 

 

 

The Remington field grade "#4B " (0.235") stack up so nicely, that I can usually pour them in. With the Hornady (0.24" exactly), I can stack them fine if I have something to push them into place. Normal 1 1/8 Oz birdshot wads stack to 23 or 21 pellets respectively for about a 1 oz load of #4 buck.

 

I put a pic of how they stack in my gallery section.

Edited March 11, 2013 by GunFun