redrocker35 9 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 There seems to be a lot of opinions on trigger groups floating around, but I'm of the mind that our forum would be the go to place to find that which would be most beneficial to my particular build. Is there more of a demand for the Bulgarian/US Made group because of the Bulgarian hammer? So many options, maybe more than one build is in order! I see a lot of finely crafted .223 in the picture post, the majority of you have spent a ton of blood sweat and $$$ on your builds, I commend you all. I'm made the right choice to go Saiga, let's hope the build goes as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 (edited) I'm not really a huge fan of the two stage. I don't like how it feels. The Arsenal trigger groups also require an overtravel stop rivet installed in the receiver at the rear of the disconnector. This is to stop trigger slap. You can run without it, but it's designed for it to be there. My personal preference in the .223 is Tapco G2 but with either the original hammer (with BHO installed, or shimmed) or an AK-74 hammer. The G2 hammer profile strikes the .223 bolt tail at a strange angle, and causes more carrier binding than the AK-74 hammer profile. You lose 1 922r part doing that though. Edited March 23, 2013 by mancat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thebuns1 4,323 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 I like the two stage. I can still get precise shots off and have a bit of added safety of not having a hair trigger. YMMV. Many military weapons are two stage. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Agent Lemon 157 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Well, the single stage is like the tapco. Smooth, and it always surprises me when the shot goes off (because all my other stuff has a single stage, I dont use the single stage rifle as much for other reasons). Its so smooth, man, I cannot describe. Most of my rifles have the 2 stage trigger group. This is because the single stage is so fucking awesome (and better than crapco), and you cannot find arsenal single stage FCGs anymore. The u.s. govt probably bought all of them out to put in the Syrian rebels AKs. On my guns, the first stage of the 2 stage FCG is kinda gritty, but I dont mind, because its the crisp second stage that sets the round off. I like it quiet a bit, since I know for sure when the round will go off. I'm sure that the first stage could be polished out a bit, but I'm too lazy. As posted above, Jesus came down from heaven and gave the Russians their design for the FCGs. Then, Arsenal made an accurate copy of what the Russians were using. The Russians went with a special rivet in the rear for trigger slap. The Saiga rifles and shotguns that come into the country all have this rivet. So do Arsenal rifles. You do not have to use the special rivet if you cannot install it. I have gotten away with using a shitty bolt-on trigger guard, with the nut facing inwards, with a tiny washer of the correct height below it. This nut was the same height as the rivet, and worked just fine. If you do not have a press/ cant form rivets, and you dont like the idea of using a nut in place of the rivet (the nut will deform a tiny bit), then the G2 is your best bet (but it will probably have to be reprofiled to fit in your gun without binding up the bolt carrier). The G2 is widely used because it is good. However, when put into Saigas, it needs some work to fit good. I hate fiddling with stuff like that, so I go for the Arsenal type. I also prefer a 2 stage. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
redrocker35 9 Posted March 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Well, the single stage is like the tapco. Smooth, and it always surprises me when the shot goes off (because all my other stuff has a single stage, I dont use the single stage rifle as much for other reasons). Its so smooth, man, I cannot describe. Most of my rifles have the 2 stage trigger group. This is because the single stage is so fucking awesome (and better than crapco), and you cannot find arsenal single stage FCGs anymore. The u.s. govt probably bought all of them out to put in the Syrian rebels AKs. On my guns, the first stage of the 2 stage FCG is kinda gritty, but I dont mind, because its the crisp second stage that sets the round off. I like it quiet a bit, since I know for sure when the round will go off. I'm sure that the first stage could be polished out a bit, but I'm too lazy. As posted above, Jesus came down from heaven and gave the Russians their design for the FCGs. Then, Arsenal made an accurate copy of what the Russians were using. The Russians went with a special rivet in the rear for trigger slap. The Saiga rifles and shotguns that come into the country all have this rivet. So do Arsenal rifles. You do not have to use the special rivet if you cannot install it. I have gotten away with using a shitty bolt-on trigger guard, with the nut facing inwards, with a tiny washer of the correct height below it. This nut was the same height as the rivet, and worked just fine. If you do not have a press/ cant form rivets, and you dont like the idea of using a nut in place of the rivet (the nut will deform a tiny bit), then the G2 is your best bet (but it will probably have to be reprofiled to fit in your gun without binding up the bolt carrier). The G2 is widely used because it is good. However, when put into Saigas, it needs some work to fit good. I hate fiddling with stuff like that, so I go for the Arsenal type. I also prefer a 2 stage. I'm not really a huge fan of the two stage. I don't like how it feels. The Arsenal trigger groups also require an overtravel stop rivet installed in the receiver at the rear of the disconnector. This is to stop trigger slap. You can run without it, but it's designed for it to be there. My personal preference in the .223 is Tapco G2 but with either the original hammer (with BHO installed, or shimmed) or an AK-74 hammer. The G2 hammer profile strikes the .223 bolt tail at a strange angle, and causes more carrier binding than the AK-74 hammer profile. You lose 1 922r part doing that though. Did all Arsenal .223s come with a 1 stage or 2 stage or a little of both type of set up? I'm still a little mixed up on importers and what they did to them once they arrived here in the states. Did some importers mill new receivers on some of the rifles and reassemble them before passing them on, or did they come that way from Russia? Now I'm seeing a FIME type/importers version of a Arsenal in 7.62x39 (I know, wrong forum). I know its tough, but could someone school me in Importers/setups reliability and desirability (.223-5.56-7.62 or even .308)? I am going to do both builds at the same time, and I absolutely want to start with the right caliber/platform on build two. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jpnrm96 70 Posted March 23, 2013 Report Share Posted March 23, 2013 Seems Im a little late on this one.....fell asleep at the screen. I have both the single stage in my S12 and the double stage in my 762x39. The single stage is polished and is so very very smooth. I really don't like not knowing for sure when it's gonna go bang. I have a good idea but its not dead on. Now with the double stage, I have it polished down so it's very smooth on the 1st stage. It has a positive stop for the second stage so I know that just a squeeze is needed to take the shot. It is also heavily polished on the 2nd stage catch. Not much effort is needed at that point. Now as far as trigger slap goes, there isn't any. I took the rivet that came from the factory and drilled a hole in the center. I use a screw that perfectly fills the rivet head and then helps to hold the trigger guard on. So, on a rapid fire weapon that doesn't need perfect on target aiming (i.e. shotgun) the single stage is perfect. For accurate shooting the 2 stage is the way to go. IMOP. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mancat 2,368 Posted March 24, 2013 Report Share Posted March 24, 2013 (edited) Did all Arsenal .223s come with a 1 stage or 2 stage or a little of both type of set up? I'm still a little mixed up on importers and what they did to them once they arrived here in the states. Did some importers mill new receivers on some of the rifles and reassemble them before passing them on, or did they come that way from Russia? Now I'm seeing a FIME type/importers version of a Arsenal in 7.62x39 (I know, wrong forum). I know its tough, but could someone school me in Importers/setups reliability and desirability (.223-5.56-7.62 or even .308)? I am going to do both builds at the same time, and I absolutely want to start with the right caliber/platform on build two. OK I'll explain a little bit. Arsenal imported Saiga .223s from time to time in the past, but Arsenal never offered a true military-style rifle in cal .223, such as they did with the SGL-21 and SGL-31 models. Arsenal never sold a whole lot of bare-bones imported Saigas - their bread and butter have been the military-style rifles from Russia and Bulgaria. At one point in the past, Arsenal imported Saigas and performed conversions on them - the SGL-10 model was an example of this. It was an IZ-332 model that was professionally converted by Arsenal in the US. As far as Arsenal's SGL series goes, they perform some legal tricks with Izhmash to get a standard military-style barreled receiver shipped into the US. They may do this by having Izhmash press out the barrel prior to exporting - nobody really knows, since Russian law prevents them from exporting these military style rifles to the US as-is, even though they can sell them in that style within Europe and Russia itself. Once the rifles are here in Arsenal's shop, they then install the required number of 922r parts with US-made parts. The SGL-21 and SGL-31 are basically full-featured Saiga rifles, sold just as they would be sold in the US were it not for these export restrictions. If you ever look around the web, or check your Saiga owner's manual, you can see that there are literally a ton of different Saiga models sold in the rest of the world, most of which we can't get. Most of them are identical to their military counterparts, just in semi-auto. The SGL series are now handled by FIME group. Arsenal really only has their SLR series now, of which the stamped-receiver rifles are imported from Bulgaria, and some if not most of the milled-receiver models are manufactured here in the US on Bulgarian tooling by Arsenal. Edited March 24, 2013 by mancat 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jaba1017 71 Posted April 2, 2013 Report Share Posted April 2, 2013 The single stage is good to go. The 2 stage you have to grind that annoying catch off the hammer and then its good to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerry52 893 Posted April 3, 2013 Report Share Posted April 3, 2013 (edited) If your building the gun then your doing it for fun. Try both its only time and money but i think you will find the single stage just fine. my last build has a cheap tapco single and it works just fine. I do 14lh threader for the barrel for sale if you need one. Edited April 3, 2013 by jerry52 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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