Pop Rivet for Bullet Guide?

[f308gt4 2]

Can you use a pop rivet to install the bullet guide on a Saiga 7.62x39.

 

I've read the horror stories about guys breaking taps, and was wondering if this could be a solution. Just drill the hole and use your rivet tool to rivet the bullet guide in.

 

Any reasons why this wouldn't work?

 

I just got a Saiga 7.62x39 and will be able to take it home this weekend after the 10 day waiting period in Kommiefornia. When I converted my Saiga 308, I didn't install a bullet guide, so I have no experience with that part.

 

I bought the BG guide kit with drill and tap from CSS.

 

Thanks!

[thebuns1 4,323]

There has been at lest one member here that has done so with positive results so far that I know of. I would try to use a steel rivet over an aluminum one if you can for obvious reasons. I would try to use a high strength rivet with a steel mandrel and rivet. I dont see why it wouldnt work, but its long term usage that remains to be seen on the effectiveness. Time will tell.

 

 

But with that said, tapping the trunnion can be hit and miss depending upon your skill level with tools. If you go slow, you shouldnt have any issues, but when its rushed, or too much force is applied then the end result is usually a broken tap. I normally use a cutting oil when tapping, and only turn a fraction of a turn at a time, and stop frequently to blow out the loose metal.

[DrThunder88 912]

Getting the rivet gun in there straight was the worst part on my .223 Saiga.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Just drill and tap the thing if you already have the right tools. Go slow and keep the tap straight, and don't force it. It should be fine. It's not going to break unless you break it. People who break taps usually either start with the wrong sized drill and the hole too small, or they rush the job and snap the tap trying to push it too hard, I use a cordless drill with a slip clutch, chuck the tap in the drill with plenty of bite (as in chuck way up on it so I'm not twist flexing the entire length of the tap), and with the clutch set way down low where the slightest stoppage makes the clutch kick in and stop rotation, just concentrate on keeping the axis as straight as possible. It is MUCH more controllable than trying to twist it by hand and snap proof with the clutch. The drill bearings keep the tap perfectly aligned and cutting evenly and the clutch dogs actually act as a hammer drill type thing if you set it correctly (set it just at the point it barely starts to slip and grabs...but if it encounters too much resistance it stops right there.). If it binds simply reverse the motor and clean the threads, oil and start over. I've been using this method for years and have not broken a tap since.

 

If you don't have a drill like this and by chance you do happen to break the tap, get another one and learn from your mistake made earlier, then next time it will be cake.

 

As a very last resort you can always drive the broken tap out or shatter it with a punch, if unable to grab it and wiggle it free to back it out. Then you still have a hole for your jury rigged pop rivet hack job.

 

EDIT to add.. > If your drill does not have a ratchet clutch like I'm talking about, you may be able to get similar results by just tightening the chuck semi tight with oil on the tap shaft so it can slip if it gets really bound up tight. That might work too but you just don't get the luxury of setting it by one click at a time til it's perfect, or use the hammer drill technique I referred to. It would still be an advantage having the axis stay perfectly co-centric while turning, instead of free to wobble all over the place.

 

Good luck.

[f308gt4 2]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I have never tapped anything, so this will be a first for me. I understand to go very slow and use lots of oil.

 

Hmmm, I do have a drill with a clutch on it. Didn't think to try that, but from your description, it sounds like it might be a good way to go. Thanks!

 

Can't wait to get this thing in my hands...

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

You'd be better off to just have it welded in. I would recommend TIG, but I have seen one member successfully MIG weld it. If insisting on riveting, I would use a standard rivet.

As far as tapping goes, you'll be better off to spend the extra and buy a quality tap from a machine supply shop. Just ask the sales rep for a tap suitable for tapping hardened, materials.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Why do people always insist on telling folks to WELD shit on a perfectly good AK that was designed and built using ONLY rivets!? WTF man? Welding is great for other applications, like building a roll cage or in the one and ONLY application I would ever use it on a firearm, tig welding on a charging handle... that is it. Welding heats up steel to the extreme. if someone does it wrong and doesn't pay careful attention to temperatures, heat sinking, and keeping damage from occurring to very critical areas, they destroy a perfectly good firearm that would have been just fine with a steel rivet like Kalashnikov designed the weapon around. I just don't get you guys that have to weld everything.... Yes I've seem plenty of guys ruin the tempering of their receivers, overheat causing cracks, warp gas blocks to where the plug won't even go in... you name it. It's all bad. Sorry but it just does not make any sense.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

Why do people always insist on telling folks to WELD shit on a perfectly good AK that was designed and built using ONLY rivets!? WTF man? Welding is great for other applications, like building a roll cage or in the one and ONLY application I would ever use it on a firearm, tig welding on a charging handle... that is it. Welding heats up steel to the extreme. if someone does it wrong and doesn't pay careful attention to temperatures, heat sinking, and keeping damage from occurring to very critical areas, they destroy a perfectly good firearm that would have been just fine with a steel rivet like Kalashnikov designed the weapon around. I just don't get you guys that have to weld everything.... Yes I've seem plenty of guys ruin the tempering of their receivers, overheat causing cracks, warp gas blocks to where the plug won't even go in... you name it. It's all bad. Sorry but it just does not make any sense.

Well I didn't say take it on, if you don't know what your doing.

I wouldn't recommend advising a person who's never used a tap before to chuck it in a drill either, but hey we all have our little experiences. I prefer to weld because I'm damn good at it, and know the right methods. I'm not however inclined to write up a procedure on "how to" every time the subject comes up, so when I say " I recommend welding it" I don't mean take a blind fucking stab at something you've never tried before. So with that said whatever method you choose good luck.

[thebuns1 4,323]

The only thing I've ever had welded on my AK's are the old trigger holes, and I didn't do it. Next one I do I'm gunna use my drill. I like trying new shit.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

What I meant was welding on a firearm that was designed to be held together with rivets is stupid. That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[poolingmyignorance 2,191]

What I meant was welding on a firearm that was designed to be held together with rivets is stupid. That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

Fair enough.

I know personally there are thousands out there that have been welded and still operational without issue. You can however ruin one if you get carried away for sure.

[bbwps 0]

Does anyone know if you were to buy a Saiga rifle in Russia (if citizens can even have one) do they come with a feed ramp like any other AK? Is the lack of a ramp just a demand of the ATF to allow import to this country to try and stop us from using regular mags or is the ramp actually removed once they are imported?

[richUK 90]

Does anyone know if you were to buy a Saiga rifle in Russia (if citizens can even have one) do they come with a feed ramp like any other AK? Is the lack of a ramp just a demand of the ATF to allow import to this country to try and stop us from using regular mags or is the ramp actually removed once they are imported?

 

They don't have feed ramps over there, here in the UK we have no restrictions on mag capacity and our Saigas also have no feed ramps they just come with the Saiga mags with the feed lip built into the front of the mag.

[bbwps 0]

 

Does anyone know if you were to buy a Saiga rifle in Russia (if citizens can even have one) do they come with a feed ramp like any other AK? Is the lack of a ramp just a demand of the ATF to allow import to this country to try and stop us from using regular mags or is the ramp actually removed once they are imported?

 

They don't have feed ramps over there, here in the UK we have no restrictions on mag capacity and our Saigas also have no feed ramps they just come with the Saiga mags with the feed lip built into the front of the mag.

 

 

So no matter where you are unless you convert to use standard AK mags all the rifles are designed to only use the Saiga mags. Wow, I figured that was just a screwed up USA export restriction designed to make the guns appear inferior and of course less evil looking to those people who think all AK style weapons go on killing sprees if they somehow hold more than 10 rounds.

[richUK 90]

Could be its to make a big profit in Saiga specific mags, as over here a standard Saiga mag is approx 4 times the price of a milsurp mag

[thebuns1 4,323]

 

 

Does anyone know if you were to buy a Saiga rifle in Russia (if citizens can even have one) do they come with a feed ramp like any other AK? Is the lack of a ramp just a demand of the ATF to allow import to this country to try and stop us from using regular mags or is the ramp actually removed once they are imported?

 

They don't have feed ramps over there, here in the UK we have no restrictions on mag capacity and our Saigas also have no feed ramps they just come with the Saiga mags with the feed lip built into the front of the mag.

 

 

So no matter where you are unless you convert to use standard AK mags all the rifles are designed to only use the Saiga mags. Wow, I figured that was just a screwed up USA export restriction designed to make the guns appear inferior and of course less evil looking to those people who think all AK style weapons go on killing sprees if they somehow hold more than 10 rounds.

 

Its about "sporting purposes". The Saiga rifle comes in many configs, but the ones we see are designed for hunting, not combat. But it still would be more than capable in the right hands. Too many variables to put a direct reason behind it.

[mancat 2,368]

I would have riveted mine in with a steel pop rivet if I had a rivet gun that would get that low into the trunnion. Just about all I've seen are too large.

[f308gt4 2]

Cobra 76 two: THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

 

I used the drill method you described above. It was easy. Set my drill on low speed, with the clutch on the lowest setting. Used plenty of oil, and boom, it worked. Took less than 5 minutes. I can't believe how easy it was.

 

Only issues was that my drill bit slipped a little when drilling the bullet guide hole (yes, I did use a center punch), and the hole was slightly off. But, I slightly elongated the hole on the bullet guide, and that worked fine.

 

I had a harder time filing the mag release catch (file, test, file, test, file, test, etc., until all my mags fit in).

 

Thank you again for your advice!

 

As soon as I finish everything, I will post pics of my build.

 

Thanks!

[NSA_CJ 2]

Drilling and tapping is truly easy as long as you take your time, When I do bullet guides, I drill the holes using a mill set at 600 rpm. then I hand tap

[saltydecimator 482]

buddy cherry maxed and amd 65 together before... still runnin stong!!

[Mopar14889 1]

Does anyone know if you were to buy a Saiga rifle in Russia (if citizens can even have one) do they come with a feed ramp like any other AK? Is the lack of a ramp just a demand of the ATF to allow import to this country to try and stop us from using regular mags or is the ramp actually removed once they are imported?

the ones in Russia are the same as ours, the 7.62 usually puts a ring around the spent shell on ours because it is a required feature in Russia. Sometimes we get lucky and get a export barrel. The only difference between ours and the Russian ones is civilians over there must first own a smoothbore firearm for 5 years without a criminal incident before they can get a rifled gun.

[Deadeye 325]

I have just welded up my mags and that worked just fine.    add a piece of a nail to the front and no freed ramp needed just make them loo like the factory mag.