lx2008 4 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 are there any usa manufacturers who now make or plan on making a version of the above named drum mag for saiga 12`s w/ wagwell? i know this was brought up before but i remember reading there was someone in the design phase of such a drum. thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted September 3, 2013 Report Share Posted September 3, 2013 (edited) if you really want one, make your own, I gave a post how to go about it. this is for the VEPR and VEPR mag, but the same principle applies to a S12 and the S12 mag well magazine http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/81994-vepr-12-md-20-kit-coming-soon-video-will-announce-pre-order-status/page-2 if you're going to wait on someone else to make it, then just wait and wait and wait for it happen. or not happen as the case maybe Edited September 3, 2013 by Matthew Hopkins Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I think you mean "promag?" This guy is one of several who have adapted drums including the excellent MD20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avkmDKHW_XE He has about 5 vids up ATM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I got a warm feeling watching the video of him out shooting his creation. With the extension it must hold 23/24 shells. Now, what's the plastic welding process? Wouldn't mind a tutorial as not to fuck it up. I don't care to throw $250+ in the garbage... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J94UVBS9EEw And we have a winner..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lx2008 4 Posted September 4, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 I think you mean "promag?" This guy is one of several who have adapted drums including the excellent MD20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avkmDKHW_XE He has about 5 vids up ATM no, i don`t mean promag. its called a powermag 650 or 700. i don`t know exactly where its made but the site i saw it on was european. and the price was in the Euro currency. i think its made from aluminum. and in american currency its about $400. thats the one i`m talking about. not that plastic promag that only works with original saigas w/o a magwell. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Matthew Hopkins 1,065 Posted September 4, 2013 Report Share Posted September 4, 2013 (edited) I think you mean "promag?" This guy is one of several who have adapted drums including the excellent MD20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avkmDKHW_XE He has about 5 vids up ATM no, i don`t mean promag. its called a powermag 650 or 700. i don`t know exactly where its made but the site i saw it on was european. and the price was in the Euro currency. i think its made from aluminum. and in american currency its about $400. thats the one i`m talking about. this is the one you are talking about, it's made in the Czech republic. http://www.maxrounds.com/index.php/en/powermag-700-packages they don't have the conversion for a S12 magwell, just the VEPR12 conversion, and that is a additional 240 euros, or 318 bucks. http://www.maxrounds.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=37 so for 718 bucks, plus crazy shipping, you too can have a S12 20 round drum rather then pay under 100 bucks for a PROMAG drum. but hey, you do get some neat stickers, and a cheap MADE IN CHINA case with it, that's worth the price, isn't it? I don't believe that they get a lot of order from the states, that is more geared to the European countries that can't buy the PROMAG drums from here Edited September 5, 2013 by Matthew Hopkins Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lx2008 4 Posted September 5, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 5, 2013 yeah, that ill be it! is it just me, but i`ve seen a lot of magwelled vers. of the s12 including mine( legion 433a) thought it might behoove some usa manufacturer to build one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted September 7, 2013 Report Share Posted September 7, 2013 I got a warm feeling watching the video of him out shooting his creation. With the extension it must hold 23/24 shells. Now, what's the plastic welding process? Wouldn't mind a tutorial as not to fuck it up. I don't care to throw $250+ in the garbage... He contacted me by email... I asked him if he was using dummy rounds or a flexible follower or what. He said he made extra dummy rounds, so I think it only feeds the same 20, but it does work with his homemade LRBHO, and IIRC can be inserted full on a closed bolt. Others have done similar. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted September 8, 2013 Report Share Posted September 8, 2013 I got a warm feeling watching the video of him out shooting his creation. With the extension it must hold 23/24 shells. Now, what's the plastic welding process? Wouldn't mind a tutorial as not to fuck it up. I don't care to throw $250+ in the garbage... He contacted me by email... I asked him if he was using dummy rounds or a flexible follower or what. He said he made extra dummy rounds, so I think it only feeds the same 20, but it does work with his homemade LRBHO, and IIRC can be inserted full on a closed bolt. Others have done similar. I sure hope he joins the forum and shares some tips and tricks if not a tutorial of the whole process. This is too good not to try myself... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
menace667 194 Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 I believe we have some vendors contemplating a VEPR drum, but no one has jumped into it ass deep yet. With the constant looming fear of Hi-cap bans and such no one wants to be buried in R&D costs that they can neer recoved. Somewhere else Cameron from Chaos and the gentleman from CSS SPECS magazine manufacturers explained the cost to develop a working and good quality magazine and it was stifling. High five to six figures if you have the necessaey equipment and are just making molds. Hard to blame them for being hesitant. I have kicked around cutting one of my VEPR factory five round mags and tryig to mate it to a drum, but funds have halted the project completely. My buddy is a car body guy and does plastic welding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lx2008 4 Posted September 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 well, we can only hope that some manufacturer decides to take the plunge. your probably right on the tooling costs. i was a beta tester for blackdog mags .22 lr 50 rd drum for the ar/m16 rifle. there were i believe 7 or 8 others who tested also. the owner Rich, was telling me before we tested that he had spent k`s of $ on tooling for the drum. but those things are still selling like hotcakes! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J94UVBS9EEw And we have a winner..... that's the guy that would never tell how he made his lrbho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
menace667 194 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) well, we can only hope that some manufacturer decides to take the plunge. your probably right on the tooling costs. i was a beta tester for blackdog mags .22 lr 50 rd drum for the ar/m16 rifle. there were i believe 7 or 8 others who tested also. the owner Rich, was telling me before we tested that he had spent k`s of $ on tooling for the drum. but those things are still selling like hotcakes! They would sell well, but the number of VEPR shotguns and magwell S-12, as much as we know, are very limited. I could only imagine spending my companies whole R&D budget for the year on a magwell drum, plus investing the time and effort, only to complete a high quality product in time for some crazy ban and me being stuck with boxes of them that I could not sell or use personally. That is the climate of two manufacturers who have spoke on the topic so far. Hopefully after the 2014 elections we will have a better look at what the future will look like and alleviate some of the worry of manufacturers. Edited September 19, 2013 by menace667 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lx2008 4 Posted September 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 amen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brickfield mfg 86 Posted September 19, 2013 Report Share Posted September 19, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J94UVBS9EEw And we have a winner..... that's the guy that would never tell how he made his lrbho Some people just don't like to share... Until it comes time for THEM to need information! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lx2008 4 Posted September 21, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 nice video! ok, now who can make one of these? i would pay someone to do it for sure! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grima 15 Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Let's cut the shit Who the fuck is going to make a magwell drum when there is to many different magwell's out there???????? Russian R+R SGM JT SGM JT AGP JT any mag????? Vepr This is like Darwin, everyone should have just gone for the original Russian magwell. All the rest will just slide away. I have converted a MAX ROUNDS drum & MD20 for the factory Russian Magwell. So to all S12 owner's Magwell's are a mega upgrade, so get the Russian one and demand a drum for it. To all the other people with different one's tough shit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HighPlainsDrifter 466 Posted September 21, 2013 Report Share Posted September 21, 2013 Let's cut the shit Who the fuck is going to make a magwell drum when there is to many different magwell's out there???????? You did. Care to share? Merely interested in how you welded the bodies together and managed to get the LRBHO to actuate. Details please... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lx2008 4 Posted September 22, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 exactly, i`m new to the saiga SG format. when i decided to buy one, i looked a several and decided to buy the one with a magwell from legion. its a 433a. didn`t mean to start a feud here. i just didn`t " think" about what it would mean to me to get one with a magwell already built in. just thought the magwell version was a nice change from the standard saiga. all i know is i would pay to have one made for the legion 433a if i could find someone to do the work. i did email a couple of guys i know who used to work for Red Jacket. the one said they don`t do mags, the other is going to let me know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grima 15 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Lets keep it short I am a truck driver in the UK No work shop with fancy tools I'm not a company trying to sell goods It's fucking hard to get hold of stuff over here (UK gun laws suck) So when a MD20 poped up I grabbed it I fitted a magwell to my S12 years ago Next step make the MD20 fit (only have one chance to get it right) Cut the top of the MD20 Cut down AGP mag They are not welded together 2 metal strips hold them together Just make sure every thing lines up The height of the tower must be right so the cartridges ride into the rotary slots in the drum I invented my own LRBHO years ago Nobody was interested in it as Cobra released his & the new saiga's came with a LRBHO So i'm quite happy to sit on it 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 please teach us about the lrbho Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 Fuck it I'll bite. I have MD, Promag, and WM / AA drums to work with. Have a Russian magwell on one of my S-12s, a JT (AGP/SGM) magwell on another, and the new Vepr 12 with extra 5 rd mags and plenty of extra AGP bodies to use for starters. Plus my own LRBHO that hasn't been released simply because I have not had the money to mass produce it yet or the rest of things in place to set up the whole process. That will soon be changing though. It's not forgotten and still works great. I just got sick of being pestered all the time about it any time I mentioned it so I stopped talking about it til I'm actually getting my production models sent out to a couple of vendors to test out and give feedback on. The LRBHO is secondary in this discussion though isn't it? I'll be glad to convert drums to work in magwells if folks want to send em to me to work on. That may be a good way to make some money to get the LRBHO finally in production. I refuse to take preorders and money up front though (for LRBHOs) because it has been shown before what a fucking nightmare that is. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grima 15 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 There you go Deadeye, That nice Mr Cobra has every thing you need. I'm happy with what I have, Just stuff I knock up in my spare time. Like the man said he will make you magwell drums and a LRBHO. I was showing that a magwell drum isn't that hard to do. Tried a double stack mag, that didn't work well. People asked about the LRBHO, I wasn't pushing that. Had it so long I don't think about it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lx2008 4 Posted September 23, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 23, 2013 thanks for the post! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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