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Steel Galil Mags for Vepr .223?


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#1 tbryanh

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 12:22 PM

I would like to modify my Vepr .223 to take steel Galil mags.

Anybody know how to do this?

I don't want to modify the mags. Thanks.

#2 Jim Digriz

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 12:29 PM

Do you have any Galil mags? Try them; they may not need any modification at all (other than installation of the bullet guide in the rifle).

 

Besides the bullet guide, I would not want to modify a VEPR for that particular kind of magazine. Those are old mags, some with failing springs. A better bet would be to see if you can make the M85 mags work.


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#3 ShadowFire

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 01:15 PM

Most .223/5.56 Ak variants outside of the Galil/Valmet type use magazines based on the dimensions of the 5.45 magazines.  The Galil has a magazine based on the 7.62x39 magazines (Which made the new Galils being made in that chambering an inexpensive tool up for the US market.  wink.png  ).  The russians intended to make sure neither magazine will fit in either reciever to prevent a conscript troop from loading the wrong cartridge for the wrong rifle (Even they know, "that guy" exists somewhere.).

I hope that helps you out.  However I don't find it worth it to be honest.  You can find PLENTY of good 5.56 Galils out there to buy.  It's also just as easy to build your own Galil with 922r parts and a set of go/no-go .223/5.56 gauges.
 

[Edit:]  I'm also not only an SLR-106FR owner, I also own a 5.56 Galil.


Edited by ShadowFire, 26 May 2015 - 01:18 PM.

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#4 Spacehog

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 02:00 PM

Bottom line is you will need to order a couple Galil mags to determine what is needed to make them fit. The ones I ordered worked with my Saiga .223 without any modification to the gun or the magazine. (Although they wobble way more than I am comfortable with, I have yet to have a FTF with them) There are others out there that can't get them to work with their gun without adding metal to the locking tab to have the mag ride higher. It seems to be the luck of the draw with both gun and mags, however I would not modify my firearm to fit mag. I would always do it the other way around. FTR many of Galil surplus mags out there for sale have been rode hard and are fairly worn.

As far a Shadowfire's post goes, a Galil is definitely on my short list.

I like the idea of modding a M85 mag to fit. Never thought about that and will probably give it try in the S223
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#5 Jim Digriz

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 02:59 PM

I like the idea of modding a M85 mag to fit. Never thought about that and will probably give it try in the S223

 

It just makes sense. It is the one AK 5.56 mag that checks the boxes of being currently available, inexpensive, and high quality. I like my Weigers better but the one M85 mag I converted runs flawlessly.


Edited by Jim Digriz, 26 May 2015 - 03:00 PM.

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#6 tbryanh

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 06:25 PM

Steel Galil mags are too fat for the magwell. 5.45 mags fit perfect in the Vepr .223

 

Modifying M85 mags sounds good. Anybody done it or know how to do it? Thanks.


Edited by tbryanh, 26 May 2015 - 06:30 PM.


#7 tbryanh

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 06:37 PM

Atlantic is charging $35 for an M85 mag. Last time I looked (over a year ago), they were half that price. Not sure if it was Atlantic who had them then.


Looks like Cope's has them for $25.

 

CDNN Sports has them for $13.


Edited by tbryanh, 26 May 2015 - 06:38 PM.


#8 Jim Digriz

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 07:02 PM

Steel Galil mags are too fat for the magwell. 5.45 mags fit perfect in the Vepr .223

 

Modifying M85 mags sounds good. Anybody done it or know how to do it? Thanks.

 

It will vary depending on your rifle. The M85 mag looks a hair wider than 5.45 magazines, but I'm guessing it will still fit. If it will not lock, you will have to dremel the feed lips until it does. I also had to dremel down the very front of the magazine a bit in the very front between the feedlips so the magazine would clear the bullet guide.

 

Let us know how it goes please.



#9 PRISONSHANK

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Posted 26 May 2015 - 08:54 PM

Why not just run bulgy waffles?
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#10 tbryanh

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Posted 28 May 2015 - 07:48 PM

I prefer steel mags and a better price. Steel reinforced polymer at $50 each does not seem like a good investment.



#11 ShadowFire

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Posted 30 May 2015 - 02:23 AM

As far a Shadowfire's post goes, a Galil is definitely on my short list.

You will love it.  You think your Saiga .223 (Or my SLR-106 FR for that matter.) is low recoil?  Try a Galil.  Milled steel reciever for 5.56, that's pretty much no recoil.  lol  :D

And you can use your thumb on your pistol grip to use the safe/fire instead of the lever on the other side like standard AKs.  It's a great rifle for sure.  I definately enjoy mine.


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#12 tbryanh

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 11:23 AM

From my first-hand observations, M85 mags and Steel Galil mags are very similar to each other and appear to be based on the AK47 magwell.

 

Modifying them to fit the Vepr, whose magwell appears to be based on the AK74 magwell, appears to impractical or impossible.

 

Among probably other places on the mags, a whole lot of metal on the sides of the mags, where the feed lips are, would have to be removed in an attempt to make the mags fit. The mags probably would not survive through the process.


After taking a good look at the Vepr, I don't see modifying the magwell to fit M85 or Steel Galil mags as being an option.

 

Using modified AK74 mags might be an option. I have heard that modifying or replacing followers in AK74 mags can help the mag to work well with .223 rounds. The difference in magazine curvatures is apparently not an issue, but I wonder if the feedlips could cause a problem. I have also heard that AK74 mags are not so cheap now, so Circle 10s might be the way to go. Beryl mags apparently can work too, but I have heard the mag catch is not reinforced with metal.


Edited by tbryanh, 31 May 2015 - 11:35 AM.


#13 ShadowFire

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Posted 31 May 2015 - 09:17 PM

Oh it's not impossible to modify the magwell but you'd better know what you're doing I can tell you that.

 

Trick is, good luck finding Beryl mags.  It's not impossible but they're just harder to find than the circle 10s.  I have a gob of circle 10s for my SLR-106 FR myself and love them.  I should I paid serious cash for it because I don't like to stop and reload a single mag while I'm at the range.  lol  :D  Just grab another one, rock and lock, charge it, aim and fire.  So much nicer that way.


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#14 liberty -r- death

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Posted 04 June 2015 - 10:01 PM

To do the magwell properly you need to have it milled out. Problem with Galil mags is the mag catch is not 100% true from mag to mag. Even with the magwell milled out not all Galil mags may run in it. There is no steel option that works without heavy modifications to either the mag or the rifle. Best mags for the Vepr 223 are bulgy waffles or beryl then you only need to file the mag catch and add a bullet guide. 5.45 mags will work 10 round tapcos run great. Any thing over ten rounds and you will have to modify the mag follower to get then to feed proeperly since the cases are different.
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#15 mikebaker1129

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Posted 13 June 2015 - 03:28 PM

To do the magwell properly you need to have it milled out. Problem with Galil mags is the mag catch is not 100% true from mag to mag. Even with the magwell milled out not all Galil mags may run in it. There is no steel option that works without heavy modifications to either the mag or the rifle. Best mags for the Vepr 223 are bulgy waffles or beryl then you only need to file the mag catch and add a bullet guide. 5.45 mags will work 10 round tapcos run great. Any thing over ten rounds and you will have to modify the mag follower to get then to feed proeperly since the cases are different.

^ is good sound advise.
Weiger mags can be made to function with some work to the mags.
Are you the guy in Houston ?

Edited by mikebaker1129, 13 June 2015 - 03:29 PM.


#16 tbryanh

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Posted 14 June 2015 - 06:14 PM

I just got a Circle 10 mag. Fits perfect. As stated, only the mag catch on the rifle needs to be filed to allow the mag to lock in.

 

Compared to the Circle 10 mag, the M85 and Steel Galil mags are about 0.060" inches too fat along the sides where the feed lips are. It could be possible to use a belt sander or something to take off 0.030" on each side. It might be that the mags survive through this, but there might be other issues.

 

The front trunnion on the Vepr does not appear it would reach the top-front of the Steel Galil mag to help lock it in place. This may not be an issue with the M85 mag.


Edited by tbryanh, 14 June 2015 - 06:15 PM.


#17 liberty -r- death

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Posted 15 June 2015 - 12:42 PM

To do the magwell properly you need to have it milled out. Problem with Galil mags is the mag catch is not 100% true from mag to mag. Even with the magwell milled out not all Galil mags may run in it. There is no steel option that works without heavy modifications to either the mag or the rifle. Best mags for the Vepr 223 are bulgy waffles or beryl then you only need to file the mag catch and add a bullet guide. 5.45 mags will work 10 round tapcos run great. Any thing over ten rounds and you will have to modify the mag follower to get then to feed proeperly since the cases are different.

^ is good sound advise.
Weiger mags can be made to function with some work to the mags.
Are you the guy in Houston ?

Sorry Mike not in Texas. Wish I was that's were I'm from originally. I'm in Illinois near Peoria.

I just got a Circle 10 mag. Fits perfect. As stated, only the mag catch on the rifle needs to be filed to allow the mag to lock in.
 
Compared to the Circle 10 mag, the M85 and Steel Galil mags are about 0.060" inches too fat along the sides where the feed lips are. It could be possible to use a belt sander or something to take off 0.030" on each side. It might be that the mags survive through this, but there might be other issues.
 
The front trunnion on the Vepr does not appear it would reach the top-front of the Steel Galil mag to help lock it in place. This may not be an issue with the M85 mag.


Ues you can grind or file down steel mags. I did a couple just to see. It's alot more work than it's worth. The mags survive but I'm not sure that they will hold up well over time. Once and a while you will weiger german mags but you pay a premium. Another option it you really want metal mags is to go the route of an AR15 mag adapter. You will need some maching skill to do it yourself.
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#18 mikebaker1129

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Posted 19 June 2015 - 05:41 PM

Liberty,sorry the Houston question was for tbryanh .
If I am correct Liberty, you and I have done some business together.

To do the magwell properly you need to have it milled out. Problem with Galil mags is the mag catch is not 100% true from mag to mag. Even with the magwell milled out not all Galil mags may run in it. There is no steel option that works without heavy modifications to either the mag or the rifle. Best mags for the Vepr 223 are bulgy waffles or beryl then you only need to file the mag catch and add a bullet guide. 5.45 mags will work 10 round tapcos run great. Any thing over ten rounds and you will have to modify the mag follower to get then to feed proeperly since the cases are different.

^ is good sound advise.
Weiger mags can be made to function with some work to the mags.
Are you the guy in Houston ?

Sorry Mike not in Texas. Wish I was that's were I'm from originally. I'm in Illinois near Peoria.

I just got a Circle 10 mag. Fits perfect. As stated, only the mag catch on the rifle needs to be filed to allow the mag to lock in.
 
Compared to the Circle 10 mag, the M85 and Steel Galil mags are about 0.060" inches too fat along the sides where the feed lips are. It could be possible to use a belt sander or something to take off 0.030" on each side. It might be that the mags survive through this, but there might be other issues.
 The front trunnion on the Vepr does not appear it would reach the top-front of the Steel Galil mag to help lock it in place. This may not be an issue with the M85 mag.


Ues you can grind or file down steel mags. I did a couple just to see. It's alot more work than it's worth. The mags survive but I'm not sure that they will hold up well over time. Once and a while you will weiger german mags but you pay a premium. Another option it you really want metal mags is to go the route of an AR15 mag adapter. You will need some maching skill to do it yourself.


#19 liberty -r- death

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Posted 20 June 2015 - 09:33 AM

You are correct way have done business together.
- even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while -
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#20 mikebaker1129

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 08:45 PM

I just got a Circle 10 mag. Fits perfect. As stated, only the mag catch on the rifle needs to be filed to allow the mag to lock in.
 
Compared to the Circle 10 mag, the M85 and Steel Galil mags are about 0.060" inches too fat along the sides where the feed lips are. It could be possible to use a belt sander or something to take off 0.030" on each side. It might be that the mags survive through this, but there might be other issues.
 
The front trunnion on the Vepr does not appear it would reach the top-front of the Steel Galil mag to help lock it in place. This may not be an issue with the M85 mag.

I used an air die grinder with sanding pads when I converted a Weiger mag,it was a lot of metal removed from only the front latch that locks in the front trunnion.This was only done to 1 or 2 mags and then I had the front of the mag well opened up to allow for unmodified Weiger mags, I believe he milled 1mm from each side if I remember correctly. He did it in 10 minutes while I waited and then I decided to have him thread my barrel,again I waited ,about 15 minutes,the work was done at Elk River Tool and Die when they were in Houston. M85 mags are very similar to the Weigers ,so this may be possible.

#21 h3nkka

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 04:33 PM

I'm purchasing a vepr pioneer .223 in near future and I have read your discussions about the struggles with magazines with vepr guns. I haven't yet found a webshop that would sell the factory .223 vepr mags and I wouldnt like to install bullet guide, file magwell or do such alterations to the gun because it will be used in hunting purposes and i dont need more than 2 or 3 (small capacity) mags. The question is, can I use the factory 10 round mags in caliber 5.45x39 that are sold for example here: https://www.k-var.co...-VPR545-10.html? Apparently 5.45 tapco mags work with .223 veprs, but they would need bullet guide installation if I have understood correctly.



#22 liberty -r- death

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 11:16 PM

You would haemve to buy the 5.45 mag and test it. I have not tried them, but they might work fine for you application. Only way to know for sure it buy one and test it.
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#23 h3nkka

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Posted 01 December 2015 - 03:05 PM

You would haemve to buy the 5.45 mag and test it. I have not tried them, but they might work fine for you application. Only way to know for sure it buy one and test it.

I did a bit research and yes, 5.45 factory mags fit the .223. Too bad not a single gun shop that sells those would ship them to Europe.



#24 mikebaker1129

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Posted 20 March 2016 - 08:34 PM

There should be plenty 5.45 and .223 mags in Poland and Russia.
There was also someone I the UK if I recall.

#25 ESSOHBE

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 10:17 PM

I got 2 galil mags at a gunshow to see if they'd work in my Saiga 223 but they dont, the bolt wont strip them from the mag into battery. They sit too low it what it looks like. Wtf. I know this is a Vepr thread but I thoguht peopel were using galil mags in saigas. They don't sit too low in Veprs then?


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#26 mikebaker1129

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Posted 16 May 2017 - 05:27 PM

I got 2 galil mags at a gunshow to see if they'd work in my Saiga 223 but they dont, the bolt wont strip them from the mag into battery. They sit too low it what it looks like. Wtf. I know this is a Vepr thread but I thoguht peopel were using galil mags in saigas. They don't sit too low in Veprs then?


I use Galil mags in my Saiga.
Orilites work the best,followed by the steel 12 rd. mags. The 35 and 50 rd mags vary in specs so they are hit or miss on whether they will function or not.

#27 liberty -r- death

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Posted 10 June 2017 - 09:15 PM

I got 2 galil mags at a gunshow to see if they'd work in my Saiga 223 but they dont, the bolt wont strip them from the mag into battery. They sit too low it what it looks like. Wtf. I know this is a Vepr thread but I thoguht peopel were using galil mags in saigas. They don't sit too low in Veprs then?


All depends on the Saiga, some run Galil mags, some don't. I love the Vepr, but the 223 Vepr has the same narrow dimensions of the 5.45. Unlike Saiga using the 7.62 magwell. Makes fitting mags fun for both.
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