Patent help

[BpS12 512]

Ok the pic below is how my woman found me this mourning, pen and pad in hand, tape measure handy, Etin Thrasher(Bullpupped S12) across my lap, in bed, lol.

 

I have been working on issues with a bullpup kit design for a while now and may have some solutions. Such things as an ambi cocking lever and a way to eliminate the need for a magwell(yet get similar results). But I would like to see if I can get at least a few Patented. I'm not set up to do more than working models(ie, manufactureing) so I would prefer to sell/lease(?) the patent. I've started on a working moc up today.

 

Have thought about Invent Help, but was hopeing someone here could give some advice first. Any info would be appreciated.

[vbrtrmn 167]

Invent Help will rip you off, if you see it on TV it is fake

 

I'd look for a patent lawyer in your area, I have no idea what the costs will be or anything.

[chuvak 9]

Ok the pic below is how my woman found me this mourning, pen and pad in hand, tape measure handy, Etin Thrasher(Bullpupped S12) across my lap, in bed, lol.

 

I have been working on issues with a bullpup kit design for a while now and may have some solutions. Such things as an ambi cocking lever and a way to eliminate the need for a magwell(yet get similar results). But I would like to see if I can get at least a few Patented. I'm not set up to do more than working models(ie, manufactureing) so I would prefer to sell/lease(?) the patent. I've started on a working moc up today.

 

Have thought about Invent Help, but was hopeing someone here could give some advice first. Any info would be appreciated.

 

A basic patent will generally run you from $5K to $20K, depending on the complexity of what you're patenting. A provisional patent is a cheaper, short-term, partial solution, but will generally give you just enough time to tinker around and get some consulting/testing/feedback on the design before it expires, leaving you with no legal protection from the folks who have seen your design(s) and perhaps decided to copy your idea(s). That's why so many folks sell their idea to a developer: going from concept or prototype to marketable goods can be a very involved process. Also, I would recommend getting non-disclosure and non-compete agreements from anyone you share your designs with.

 

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do with this.I got bitten by bullpup fever, too, and have probably spent more time than is good for me thinking of ways to make it work on the AK. My saigas are disassembled so often to tinker with my latest idea that I hardly ever get to shoot them.

[vinnivanhood 17]

I was wondering if anyone had tried doing anything like getting a patent through legalzoom?

I haven't heard much about them either way, but it looks more affordable.

[tover26 18]

Just some thoughts... I share a patent with a friend. We did provisional first by ourselves and then paid $12,000 to a well-known patent firm to take it from provisional to non. Provisional was only useful in that it gives you intellectual property protection for about a year before you have to go to a normal (nonprovisional) patent. What this means is that you can openly discuss it without legal concerns that they will steal your IP. Practically, they'll steal your IP as you'd have to pay cash to enforce it... so you still need to be careful. The other thing it does is that it "hides" the provisional patent from public searches. Once patented, your patent will be out there for the world to see. While it's hard to invent something novel, it's ridiculously easy to take an existing patent and alter it just enough to seem novel avoid IP issues.

 

The advantage of hiring a good patent attorney is several-fold. First, a strikinly high number of all patents are rejected... I want to say 99%. No matter how good your idea/patent filing/etc... they just get rejected.

- A good patent attorney will avoid those things that would cause it to be rejected that are preventible.

- A good patent attorney will be able to guide the process so that your good patent filing comes back with a point by point list of why it was rejected. Without that list, you're fucked. With that list, you can revise your patent to point-by-point address the rejection reasons and have your 2nd attempt have a much better acceptance probability, say 50%. Rinse and repeat until accepted.

 

Without the point by point rejection list you are completely screwed. This is where patent attorneys earn their money in my opinion. As with pirating, it is ridiculously easy to address a point-by-point "here's why it's rejected" and you have no engaged them in the proper process they want you to go through. My patent has been in patent-pending status for 20 months now. I am 100% confident it will be rejected, but I'm also 100% certain that our resubmission will be accepted. In my case, it's not my own personal money I'm spending.

 

For perspective, in 2002, we tried filing another patent from a work-from-home attorney. We paid her $4,000 of our own money. The patent was filed. It was rejected. When we did this more recent one, we tried to go back and search on that earlier one and it quickly became apparent that it had never been filed at all as there was no record of it. The rejection rates are so high that I guess there's a racket out there that preys off how fucked up the process is and pretends to file but then comes back months later... Sorry it was rejected - want to try again?

 

On the flip side of patents is trade secret/proprietary. You have no IP protection beyond your circle of confidants and you have the exact same risks of your trade secret bullpup design being reverse engineered or alter-engineered. If you go that route, you're committing yourself to staying ahead of the competitor curve... and lots of people and companies do this. If you have some bucks to spend on the patent, I think you should go for it... skip the provisional... you'll be surprised at how quickly time passes and you suddenly are looking at the prospect of forking up more money for this and having to do the full-on complete submission and filing. Just do it correctly the first time.

 

Good luck.

[Reverendfranz 160]

Patents are very hard to enforce in small scale manufacturing, and can be costly. A handshake can be infinitely more valuable, or at least a better value, if you dont have the margins or big bucks to enforce a patent. It is quite easy to spend as much as an idea is worth, in profit, to attempt to enforce a patent only to find at the final stage of litigation that the corporation you were litigating has dissolved without so much as paying you a cent in restitution or fees, and passed its idea or manufacturing equipment on to another company that has every intention of continuing to infringe on your patent, leaving you to decide if you want to restart the whole process.

 

Aside from that, they aren't a particularly good idea, if you ask me.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NxQO7klE4CsC&dq=free+culture

 

There is much better advice about what you are actually asking, above, I just thought id offer my experience, and two cents (worth 96% less than it was the year the fed was created)

[G O B 3,516]

The inventor of television was driven into bankruptcy by RCA. Instead of buying his patent they just applied for many bogus patents, and sued HIM. Repeatedly, each time their suit was found groundless, but several years of defending himself in Courts all over America left him destitute, and they bought his patents for pennies at the liquidation sale. Big corporation have deep pockets - and MANY lawyers!

[mdRcktScntst 9]

I have several patents finalized and granted, through work.

 

Several more in the pipeline. It takes years.

 

Only takes a couple months to go through our internal review to weed out the ideas that are wastes of time and money. Seems about a year for the patent attorney company to be ready to file. The patent office takes something like 3 years.

 

The patent site changes day to day. This morning is the easiest to use I have ever seen. I hope these URL's last more than days.

 

Go to http://appft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.html to search the applications in work

 

Go to http://patft.uspto.gov/netahtml/PTO/search-adv.htm to search patents finalized and granted.

 

Do lots of searches. For instance, to see the status of your own, the easiest I have seen IF you don't remember you number is IN/MyName and IC/MyCity.

 

There are a LOT of patents in the system.

 

If I don't specify like that I can't find my own patents.

 

Do a LOT of searching before you do anything else.

 

It's free and the biggest task is showing why your idea is novel and NOT obvious given other work.

 

The patent examiners seem to have recently been motivated to be MUCH tougher.

 

They throw up many more nonsense barriers. "This strawberry recipe makes your grip attachment obvious".

 

They also are talented at finding any patent even sort of close to your idea and you have to explain to THEIR satisfaction why yours is significantly different and novel. It looks like that is the way they manage to be able to examine patents on fields they do not know much about. You pay to educate them.

They seem to recently be doing a lot more of this.

 

Do more searching.

[BpS12 512]

Thanks guys, I appreciate the advice.

 

I have been reading the U.S. Patent website. But like has been said, it only allows me to enforce my patent, which WILL cost loads more than I may be able to make over and above paying for the patent itslef. Esp. if some outfit bigger than I grabs on to it.

 

Been thinking lately of just producing a boat load of kits, primarily the magwell alternative, and selling for all I'm worth. Though I would likely want to get some official documentation to protect me from someone patenting the design and coming back at me later. What sucks is that it's SOOO fricking simple, it's almost stupid, lol.

 

Any way thanks again,

Mikel

 

PS, I try to let you know what I do.