(pic heavy) New saiga 12

[BlackNet 10]

Ok so this is my first saiga 12, I know that saigas are money pits and even tho I got this for very little it is going to take a good amount to get it where I want it to be at. I have a 20 round, 12 round, 10 stick and factory 5 that shipped with it.

 

 

I took her to the range over the weekend and burned 150 rounds of 12 gauge down range. When I left I had a smoking pile of ashes from the cardboard sils that I was shooting at, #7 shot And no all the pics I took below are UNCLEANED. I wanted to see, in great detail, where/how collection was handled.

 

I had some feeding issues: both loading and ejecting/extracting. Sorry for the horribad photo, was taken with my Iphone in crap conditions light wise.

 

This is the main eject problem, it would hang up at this point, I could feel the empty shells being caught and dragged over what felt like sandpaper. Some times the bolt would refuse to be pushed back at all, mostly with my 12 round drum mag in place.

 

After about 100-125 shells she started feeding and ejecting good and I was able to cook off many shells back to back with no problems. I still have mag problems with my 12 rounder but that's a new story.

 

 

 

I bought a basic conversion kit from Carolina Shooting Supply and followed all the video's, post and everything else I could get my hands on, Current state is I'm waiting on my Timbersmith black laminate stock to show up and put that on before I do anything else.

 

So, Once I tore her down I discovered a few interesting things about this firearm company.

 

This is the outside of the chamber, very close up macro shot. Here you can see heavy tooling marks.

 

This is the inside of the chamber/feed ramp on the barrel.

 

This whole area is where the sandpaper feel was coming from so that's on the MUST POLISH list

 

Ok so I got some paint that was not the right type and I will be repainting that. I may just sand down everything and park it when I am done. This is the Carolina trigger guard.

 

 

 

Yes that is a scratch by the 2 rivet holes that I drilled out That will be coming out with the sanding. I have yet to decide if I want the extended mag release or not.

 

 

 

Ok so overall outside is not bad at all. Many areas on the INSIDE that needs epic work! I think some of these could/should probably be used in the 'why should i convert' thread

 

 

 

 

 

One downside to the saiga that I see (personal thing here) is the tool marks on the number. It's punch marks!

Personally I like clean crisp straight defined numbers/letters. Oh I used a white china marker to do the white highlighting.

 

So it looks like they do very little cleanup work during production. I would guess when the bits are getting dull things like this happens, as for how often I am not sure on that one. As for having feed/eject/extract issues out of the box some may say shells but from these photo's I think it's crystal clear where and what the problem is, also what needs to be done. Naturally we all know that well tuned machines on the inside are smooth and polished, hiccups and gotchas occur when it looks like sandpaper and ass.

Edited May 9, 2012 by BlackNet

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Here come the 922r guys...

 

I think you'll get a lot out of the "How to polish the bolt" thread pay attention to the first page... re-profile the hammer so that the bolt carrier can slide over it easier. You may end up enlarging a port or two or four.

 

It looks damn good with the china marker!

[gunfun 3,931]

He's already mid conversion. I doubt anyone will feel the need to warn him about 922r. His pictures show enough parts to suggest that he will be good.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Jesus, no one can joke around here, you've called pretty much just me out on every little silly comment, everyone else can joke around BUT me? What the fuck bro? Did you not read the rest of my damn post???

[corbin 621]

Definitely polish things to get a smoother action. That makes a huge difference.

 

P.S. When did they start doing the serial number with punch dots?

Edited May 9, 2012 by Corbin

[gunfun 3,931]

Jesus, no one can joke around here, you've called pretty much just me out on every little silly comment, everyone else can joke around BUT me? What the fuck bro? Did you not read the rest of my damn post???

 

I was agreeing with you that it doesn't make sense to give this guy a hard time. Sorry if it feels that way to you. Keep in mind that tone (for both of us) doesn't carry well for text. Maybe when they come out with that Sarcastica font... I don't have anything in for you.

[BlackNet 10]

Yes I did read up on the 922 BS, er R

 

I have the carolina basic conversion kit which meets the demand. On top of that I have the timbersmith black laminate stock, I also have the drum magazines but I am not going to count on that. I also want to do a gas port conversion which throws in a few more parts. All in all I should be well over the mandated number by a good bit.

[gunfun 3,931]

I'm confused here about what you mean by " a gas port conversion... which throws in a few more parts"

 

Do you mean you are going to short gas it, weld the ports closed and install a shortened US made operating rod?

 

If you just mean you are going to drill the holes bigger, or add a hole, that does not get rid of any parts. Replacing the Gas Plug with an MD plug, Autoplug or similar doesn't affect your parts count, because that is not one of the 20 named parts that matter. Remember, it isn't about adding USA parts, it is about getting rid of imported parts from the magic list, until the total is 10 or less.

 

At any rate the USA made furniture (- 1 stock, -1 fore end, pistol grip doesn't affect the count) and the 3 parts from the FCG gets you legal with any magazine. So once you get all those on, you are good to go at 10 parts with any magazine.

Edited May 9, 2012 by GunFun

[BlackNet 10]

This,

 

http://dinzagarms.com/saiga_12/aks12.html It's more of a 'mod' than a 'conversion'

[BlackNet 10]

Ok Seems that I forgot some shots yesterday, so I shot them today. This is the shells. I was able to collect some of the shells I used at the range to highlight exactly what was going on and to help document the process.

 

Here goes.

 

The beauty of shotguns is the soft shell casing, from that you can determine a great number of things about the firearm and what needs to be done. For example:

 

 

 

here we have an unfired round with a deep scratch going from the lip on the head to center body. Clearly this is a magazine fault as the only place that is allowed to touch the shell in those areas and that broad of a range is the magazine,

 

 

This shell was caught in the chamber when the bolt closed. Which means the timing was off, it was likely dragging on ejection/extraction, also note the faint scar by the head, same as the detailed shot above, again magazine partial fault here. The other part is the gritty extraction which could be due to to much upward pressure from the magazine and/or burs in and around the chamber.

 

 

This one is quite interesting.

 

 

Here we see the same marks on multiple shells, however the location changes. As does the second mark on the green shell is missing on the red shell.

 

Both of these shells shows indication of timing issues on extraction/ejection

 

 

Here again the biggest source of marks going this direction is ejection/extraction.

Edited May 9, 2012 by BlackNet

[pedal2alloy 206]

Someone shot some super-slow-mo video of the S12 being fired, (I think it was JMAC) and you can see that the hulls get beat up during ejection. Maybe someone can find a link to that

[TacSat 90]

Definitely polish things to get a smoother action. That makes a huge difference.

 

P.S. When did they start doing the serial number with punch dots?

 

The H is stamped. Looks like the same dots as the importer. maybe they do both at factory?

[gunfun 3,931]

You sure that long diagonal scratch is not from the bottom lug of the bolt face as it makes its trip rearward?

[BlackNet 10]

You sure that long diagonal scratch is not from the bottom lug of the bolt face as it makes its trip rearward?

 

Positive, that shell is unfired. It was loaded from the 12 round drum and it sits in the chamber way to tight and causes serious drag.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

You need a bit more gas and the extractor ramp needs to be de-burred...

[RED333 1,025]

Mine does the sprial scratch at times.

I dont worry about it to much, I even reload those shells if not cut to deep.

[BlackNet 10]

The new stock came in today. I bought a timbersmith ak47 stock in Black Laminate for it, So far all seems good, I think..

 

 

 

Not a bad look considering, good color range and kinda has that camo look going on.

 

 

So down to business.

First up. Pistol grip looks like it will fit with no work needed, wohoo!

 

Next, but stock, shorter than the factory saiga 12 stock and considering the pistol grip is moved forward about the same distance there should be no problem. Length of Pull: a) Factory stock with PG is 16", ak47 stock with PG is 13". 13" is a tad to short but a 1 inch plate on the back should fix that nicely.

 

 

 

Not bad! I have some lens glare sorry about these crap images. Note the top handguard is at an angle but it does fit on there. May need some very minor filing to fit. The lower will need some serious work.

 

Here we see the 2 rear holes will need to be profiled on the stock, Also the middle of that hits the 3rd screw for the trigger guard!

 

 

top looks good so far. 2 drill holes in there.

 

and one below, I think I will add that one, May need some profiling on the grip for the head.

 

This does look good but it may also be to busy, not sure yet but the sides looks good!

 

Edited May 10, 2012 by BlackNet

[BlackNet 10]

You need a bit more gas and the extractor ramp needs to be de-burred...

 

Correct! I removed the gas plug and well it's filthy for one, I have a very sneaky suspicion the holes needs work. The tube will be coming off for the handguard work and I will clean that up at that time. The extractor ramp I will get to before that I think. I am trying to locate my inlet ink to show areas that need work.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

I was telling, not asking, you may be new to this but we ain't.

 

I meant that you will probably need to drift the gas block and enlarge your ports. I'd test it before I did the gas tube modification and make sure that it needs larger ports after finishing conversion. That would take care of two birds with one stone so to speak, enlarge ports, install new gas tube... done!

[BOB A. BOOEY 45]

Jesus, no one can joke around here, you've called pretty much just me out on every little silly comment, everyone else can joke around BUT me? What the fuck bro? Did you not read the rest of my damn post???

Edited May 10, 2012 by BOB A. BOOEY

[BlackNet 10]

I reassembled her and have been looking for polishing points and so far identified a few areas. What will make the biggest decision is to FIRE it before doing any polishing work, see what really happens and what is really needed.

 

From all the things I have been reading I would need to do a BHO cut to allow the safety in and out, Well from tinkering with it I was able to remove the safety with out having to take the BHO out. I just simply pulled it away from the edge and pushed it up and slid the safety out. So no mod needed for that. Yes the cut may make it easier but it's possible to do it with out the cut, at least on my unit it is.

 

Oh I also used the factory hammer Felt that would be better at this point in time. I can always put the other one in place.

 

 

 

One of the areas next is to find a screw to go into the bottom. I was able to locate a screw but well it's silver

 

 

This is the relief cuts I made in the butstock and pistol grip for the rivets, screws etc.

 

I ordered a lower handguard clamp and I will be doing the lower handguard then the upper.

 

 

Few things to note. the plugs are just sitting in there, they are not attached.

 

[Spartacus 1,619]

Looks good.

 

Will be interesting to see how you get the upper/lower hand guards attached.

It's expensive to do it "right".

Edited May 12, 2012 by Spartacus

[Bigchris 31]

Looks good.

 

Will be interesting to see how you get the upper/lower hand guards attached.

It's expensive to do it "right".

 

X2

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

VERY NICE!!!

[RED333 1,025]

Looks good so far, on that shinny screw,

find an allen pan head and paint it black,

or paint the one you have.

[BlackNet 10]

Well, I am pondering using my wood lathe and drop a 3/4", 1" and 1 1/8" wood dial with sandpaper glued around it. I have a jet 1220 mini I use to make pens with.

 

I dumped another 50 rounds thru her tonight and the trigger setup does work good. the BHO is in an odd location for one. She was short cycling like crazy and that gas tube is coming off this weekend and will start the polishing.

[BlackNet 10]

So I took the gas tube off, here is what I found.

 

 

Barrel side of the gas tube.

 

Top view of the gas holes in the barrel. Here you can see the angle and the circle around them and how that circle is not large enough, that circle is from the housing, so that's to be enlarged.

 

 

Here is a 30 second exposure of the holes in the barrel taken in a dark room with a flashlight stuck down the end of the barrel (left side of photo) you can see the buildup inside the holes Worth noting the holes in the middle (left and right side) was clogged up and I used a dental pick to open that up.

 

Here we see INSIDE the barrel. I stuck a dental pick in the hole for reference, note the fracture marks around the holes.

 

Same thing but no dental pick,

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Someone shot some super-slow-mo video of the S12 being fired, (I think it was JMAC) and you can see that the hulls get beat up during ejection. Maybe someone can find a link to that

As requested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QB1o2isrCDI

[Spartacus 1,619]

You're rolling along nicely, your S-12 will be running fine in no time.

 

Looks like your other hobby, photography has paid off with some skill.

Very impressive pics, about the best I've seen of S-12 bits and pieces.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Spartacus

[BlackNet 10]

Some of the extract/eject problems.