Plastic Shavings in the Gas System?

[SinistralRifleman 0]

So I took my Saiga apart today after shooting 150 shells, and there was a solid circle of little plastic bits melted and pounded together in the gas system. I assume these are from the wads or hulls....is this normal?

Edited May 10, 2006 by SinistralRifleman

[JumiKuula 1]

When shooting Nike Fiocchis or any brand using their "shot-cups" (Wads?) it is common that malfunctions start to occur after 200 rounds of intensive fire. I believe it has something to do with material they use since gas holes are angled and won't shave... Even with over n' under Nike creates a thin layer of plastic inside barrel.

Mirage, Winchester, Victory, Gamebore or Tunet doesn't do such nearly at all. Maybe vaporised plastic?

 

 

-JumiKuula aka JamShot

Edited May 10, 2006 by JumiKuula

[TonyRumore 1,332]

I have seen various crap accumulate in the gas manifold, but it never seems to affect function of the shotgun.

[raygun 0]

I have had a couple failures from the plastic ships making their way into the gas system.

 

with the gas setting on #2, there are no problems, but with the gas on #1, a little plastic chip can sometimes get lodged in the part of the gas plug that has the small notch.

After that, it is it racking the bolt each shot untill you switch to gas setting #2 or clean out the gas plug.

[SinistralRifleman 0]

I sent it back to Tromix, and Tony redrilled the gas ports at an angle for me and that cured the plastic shaving problem. It is working better, no plastic shavings.

 

I took it out shooting today. At first it wouldn't cycle for me at all with any ammo, it would consistently fail to eject. I removed that floating dust cover piece off the recoil spring housing and after that it cycled almost flawlessly. Has anyone else had that piece cause a problem before?

 

I shot 125 rounds of winchester 3 dram #7-1/2 shot all cycled flawlessly except for 1, which I think might have been a magazine problem. I then shot 100 rounds of Federal #6 shot 3-1/4 dram and it all cycled flawlessly. I fired 50 Winchester rifled slugs which all cycled flawlessly. I then went back to some more federal #6 and it failed to to eject every round.

 

I diassembled it and it appears lead from the rifled slugs is going into the gas system. After a quick dissaessmbly and cleaning (scraping off the lead), it would only cycle 50% of the time without a failure to eject. I guess it will require a more detailed cleaning, which unfortunatelyI didn't have the time or tools to do on the range today. I'm leaving for Idaho on Tuesday, so I'll have to play with it more when I get back.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Damn that sounds kind of weird after hearing some stories about people who put thousands of rounds thry theirs without ever cleaning it and had no probs. When Bvamp finally cleaned his he had to literally drive the gas piston out with a hammer.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

If that thing keeps giving you problems, just send it back and I'll make you a new gun, no charge.

 

I'll chop that one into an 8" SBS and fix it for good.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

[SinistralRifleman 0]

If that thing keeps giving you problems, just send it back and I'll make you a new gun, no charge.

 

I'll chop that one into an 8" SBS and fix it for good.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

Thanks for the offer Tony, you have been more than helpful with this already. You're definitely willing to go beyond what's normally expected in customer service. I'd prefer not to put you out as I don't think it's anything you did to the gun that's causing the problem.

 

When I get back I'll shoot it some more and see what happens...

[inparidel 4]

Damn that sounds kind of weird after hearing some stories about people who put thousands of rounds thry theirs without ever cleaning it and had no probs. When Bvamp finally cleaned his he had to literally drive the gas piston out with a hammer.

 

The stock guns have angled gas ports of a particular size that is the result of alot of R&D. Many guys have shotguns that they themselves "modified" or had others modify them, specifically, I mean the gas ports in the barrel. The timing of a gas operated gun is like the timing in a car engine. The only difference is that you can over port a gun, and it will LOOK as if it's just fine, but you are prematurely wearing out other parts because of too much pressure on the carrier and receiver parts.

 

I have never heard of any Siaga shotgun shaving anything off of either the shot cups/wads, or slug lead (nor has mine--EVER). I highly suspect that it's the "modified" gas ports that are doing this. The guy with the problem may well do best if he lets Tony replace his, as he offered.

 

Regarding ammo in general, there is one simple rule to remember about a happy Siaga: They like one of two things: They like the appropriate gas pressure, especially considering they were designed to fire high brass combat ammo mostly. There are two ways to give your Siaga (with factory, unscrewed-with gas ports) the gas pressure she likes: (1) use sport ammo that is 1,300 fps or better (that's early pressure, fast burning powders). (2) use slower burning powders, but use 1 1/4 oz of shot. Any factory ported Saiga will run flawlessly with either ammo.

[osprey21 5]

Here's the wad of crud I dug out of my 8" gun after 80rds of Wolf 00 buck and 20rds of 'ACTIVE' birdshot.

 

 

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

[osprey21 5]

LOL... that pretty much sums it up.

[Integratedj 1]

I have never seen even an 8th of that kind of shit in my S12, even after I have put over 800 shells through it without cleaning at one shoot.

 

Don't know WTF is up with that man.

[inparidel 4]

Again, that's an 8" gun. The gas ports were probably opened up waaayyy over any rational spec in an attempt to get it to function. There are other options to getting shorter Siagas to function. I wonder if a Krink/104-style pressure chamber could be used to avoid butchering the ports to get it to work. . .hmmmm. If it wasn't too long, so the pattern wouldn't open and hit the mouth, I bet it would work.

[polik6887 0]

I just dug a huge chunk of plastic out of my piston cyclinder. I had never cleaned the cyclinder before (yeh I know, stupid) and perhaps that is why I had been getting some short strokes, and failures to fully eject. I had sent tony a PM about getting the ports opened up a little to help with the ejection and cycling problems. but hopefully this was the problem.

 

anyways after hundreds and hundreds of rounds (probably around 1-2K) I got a .5" chunk of plastic and (and some metal shavings), melted into the shape of the cylinder. is this an abnormal amount? I mean it was a ton of plastic, it had also melted into the recessed rings on the piston itself. I have a tromix 16.5" barrel and fixed FH, so I assume the ports are a little larger than normal. should I worry about getting the ports drilled at more of an angle, or is a .5" chunk not that big of a deal after so many rounds?

Edited July 23, 2007 by polik6887

[kmoore 3]

Short answer is I don't know.

 

But many here (including me) run lots of shells thru ours without ANY plastic buildup. Carbon, well that's another issue

 

The real key is whether it affects the function. You'll need to be the judge. I can't imagine it helps. But I also know that the S12 will function with the gas piston so gunked up that it can't move very freely.

[polik6887 0]

it still shot pretty damn good considering the shere amount of plastic in the system. like I said I had been getting a few failures to fully eject (about once every 200 rounds) and some short strokes (a little less frequently). this was all with birdshot on setting 2.

 

but damn that chunk was impressive. before I got on here I called Raa and asked if they had a plastic seal in there. they said no it was just melted wad shavings. I told the guy I would send a picture, and if I get a camera I still might. but unfortunately I broke a little off the chunk so its only like .4" now.