Hmmm why does Wolf .223 poly seem to have problems in non-Ak rifles?

[expeditionx 1]

I did my own testing in a Thompson Center factory .223 G2 rifle. I got 3 shot 3 inch groups, and by the 8th round extraction was affected by built up crud in the chamber. I wonder why Saigas and other AKs have no issue with the wolf poly rounds or laquer coated rounds if the chambers are within spec when compared to non-AK .223 weapons?

[vjor 2]

Well, is a rumor that say, that the AK are chanber for 5.56 x 45 , cause been that

is easy to import a gun been for esporting porpuses, the ruskies stamp

.223 instad of the mlitary 5.56 x 45 to easy import the saiga as a

sporting gun.

 

The rumor is base, in that the barrel use for saiga came from same barrels use

for the ak100 version , cause ruskies not made military rifles on .223

but 5.56 x 45

 

On and AR15 tested with wolf .223 and latter tested with wichester

brass, found than the wolf leave residuo and cause the steel case

dont expand as much and the brass does, the brass cases use to

get stock after the wolf was use, to solve the problem use only wolf

or only brass, dont mix both with out cleaning the barrel chamber

, now on saigas I have see even my 7.62 x 39 mix and mach

dont mather eats anything.

[expeditionx 1]

Well, is a rumor that say, that the AK are chanber for 5.56 x 45 , cause been that

is easy to import a gun been for esporting porpuses, the ruskies stamp

.223 instad of the mlitary 5.56 x 45 to easy import the saiga as a

sporting gun.

 

The rumor is base, in that the barrel use for saiga came from same barrels use

for the ak100 version , cause ruskies not made military rifles on .223

but 5.56 x 45

 

On and AR15 tested with wolf .223 and latter tested with wichester

brass, found than the wolf leave residuo and cause the steel case

dont expand as much and the brass does, the brass cases use to

get stock after the wolf was use, to solve the problem use only wolf

or only brass, dont mix both with out cleaning the barrel chamber

, now on saigas I have see even my 7.62 x 39 mix and mach

dont mather eats anything.

 

Refering to this?

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

 

Ar15s with 5.56 nato chambers also have problems with wolf .223.

So either chamber size doesnt keep it from causing a problem.

Edited August 20, 2006 by expeditionx

[Crosshair 1]

Perhaps it is beause the AK has plenty of omph to get that case in and out. Think about it, by the time that the bolt unlocks and extraction begins the bolt carrier is moving at a good rate of speed and has alot of energy stored to extract that fired case. (The large extrctor helps too.) When it is chambering a round, the same thing happens, that heavy carrier has alot of energy from the recoil spring to jam that round into the chamber and lock the bolt. By comparison, the bolt and bolt carrier on an AR is lightweight.

 

/Just a possible reason.

[SOPMOD 254]

Extractor surface area,big chambers and a heavy reciprocating bolt/carrier mass make Kalashnikovs more reliable than regular rifles.

 

The lever moment of the carrier against the bolt and the metal on metal smack at the front and rear trunnions at the beginning and end of the cycling stroke are the same as whacking a stuck part with a hammer to free them so Kalashnikovs rarely get stuck in either position!!

 

That same whack also causes all of the rounds in a Kalashnikov magazine to reseat themselves if they were even slightly askew it get's corrected before the bolt come back for a fresh round..

 

That's why the Russian PKM and the Israeli Negev are the most reliable belt fed machinguns in the world even though they are not made with undue care or the application of next generation technologies.Because they are basically upside down Kalashnikovs with a belt feed mech in place of the magazine well

 

 

I call all of this "Happy Accidents of Engineering" because they were obviously not intentional but they ad together to make these things digest any kind of ammo that will go bang when other weapons will choke at the slightest variation.

Edited August 20, 2006 by SOPMOD

[Bvamp 604]

well wait, are you talking wolf laquered .223 in a 5.56 stamped barrel? (yeh, i am aware the russians dont know much else, but chamber for 5.56 nato) mine has never burped with it. it is NOT THE SAME CHAMBERING, for the ten thousandth time! that tiny bit of tolerance is your difference. order a .223 from your big british customiser, and order a 5.56 from the same guy.....could cost ya 100k, but he will tell you too, I bet!

 

it is NOT THE SAME. BATTLE CHAMBERING IS NOT 223!!! 223 IS THE SHELL THAT FIT IT! NOT VICE VERSA! AKM USES 5.56! MORE ROOM!

 

if laquered "223" wolf jams in a .223 or other american gun, i am not surprised in the least. the russians only know 5.56, not the hunting round, 223.

 

by process of elimination...i come up with???? anyone wanna guess???

[ironhead7544 35]

Russian guns work with Russian ammo. It would seem that both have larger tolerances than the American stuff. I have used the Wolf on AR15s and Mini 14s with no function problems, they just werent all that accurate. The primer and bullet neck sealer do seem to build up some but doesnt effect the function. The AK action certainly helps jam the round in and yank it out of the chamber. The design also seems to work better with variations in pressure.

[Bvamp 604]

so do you think the saiga 223 is actually 5.56? chambering? or no.......I tihnk it is.........why would any russian buy .223 hunting ammo? I dont think they would.........

[BobAsh 582]

My understanding is (Tony may correct me on this) the chamber is the same, but the 5.56 has a longer neck, therefore, the neck brass may get stuck in the rifling of a .223 chamber. Since it can shoot either caliber, the 5.56 chambering is preferred.

 

My Tromix AR-15 shoots ANY ammo flawlessly. I only buy the cheapest ammo, mostly laquered Wolf and Brown Bear, and have never had any cycling problems. Even full auto. It's chambered @ 5.56, and the ammo is almost always .223, so there you have it.

 

It always cracks me up...there are always a ton of threads at ARFCOM on this subject; "my gun won't cycle wolf" etc. AR's are considered to be a "modular" weapon, but it DOES make a difference who sets your gun up.

 

I do believe there is an accuracy advantage (over .223) using 5.56 ammo in a 5.56 chamber, though.

[vjor 2]

Well, is a rumor that say, that the AK are chanber for 5.56 x 45 , cause been that

is easy to import a gun been for esporting porpuses, the ruskies stamp

.223 instad of the mlitary 5.56 x 45 to easy import the saiga as a

sporting gun.

 

The rumor is base, in that the barrel use for saiga came from same barrels use

for the ak100 version , cause ruskies not made military rifles on .223

but 5.56 x 45

 

On and AR15 tested with wolf .223 and latter tested with wichester

brass, found than the wolf leave residuo and cause the steel case

dont expand as much and the brass does, the brass cases use to

get stock after the wolf was use, to solve the problem use only wolf

or only brass, dont mix both with out cleaning the barrel chamber

, now on saigas I have see even my 7.62 x 39 mix and mach

dont mather eats anything.

 

Refering to this?

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

 

Ar15s with 5.56 nato chambers also have problems with wolf .223.

So either chamber size doesnt keep it from causing a problem.

 

 

Yupm after seen that, I whent with a friend AR15 and try same, at same shit happen

this AR15 as chaber for .223, but when I used to ave my in 5.56 X 45

I used wolf and no problemos but never try to mix brass and steel

and the gun was always clean before anothe going to the range again.

 

Now that I am proud Daddy of a saiga .223 I may take it to the range

and try a box of brass and boxes of wolf see what happens

but been that is and AK I guess nothing.

Edited August 20, 2006 by vjor

[inparidel 4]

Well, is a rumor that say, that the AK are chanber for 5.56 x 45 , cause been that

is easy to import a gun been for esporting porpuses, the ruskies stamp

.223 instad of the mlitary 5.56 x 45 to easy import the saiga as a

sporting gun.

 

The rumor is base, in that the barrel use for saiga came from same barrels use

for the ak100 version , cause ruskies not made military rifles on .223

but 5.56 x 45

 

On and AR15 tested with wolf .223 and latter tested with wichester

brass, found than the wolf leave residuo and cause the steel case

dont expand as much and the brass does, the brass cases use to

get stock after the wolf was use, to solve the problem use only wolf

or only brass, dont mix both with out cleaning the barrel chamber

, now on saigas I have see even my 7.62 x 39 mix and mach

dont mather eats anything.

 

Refering to this?

 

SA ammo sucks. Whether .223 or .308. The problem is not the AK, it's the SA crap ammo.

 

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

 

Ar15s with 5.56 nato chambers also have problems with wolf .223.

So either chamber size doesnt keep it from causing a problem.

[Tokageko 8]

three words: Chrome Lined Chamber

 

I've never seen or heard of any of this wierd "build-up" I hear about, in any rifle with a chrome lined chamber.

 

Besides, no one needs to tell anyone here about how much more reliable the AK is than the AR.

 

Oh, and steel (no matter what grade) has a higher spring coefficient than any brass, thus brass expands more and stays expanded.

 

Also, the neck is not different: it's the "throat" also occasionally called "leade". That's the part right ahead of the chamber where there is no rifling. It's usually a very, very, small space.

 

Go pick up two boxes of twenty rounds: one of .223 Rem, and one of 5.56 NATO. Get out your dial calipers and measure each case on every dimension that matters. I'd bet you're going to find a larger variation in those measurements WITHIN a box than you will between the two boxes.

 

The reason that a lot of ARs don't cycle Wolf ammo is because they are just not built for the same level of reliability.