Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I'm getting ready to convert my .308 and I've read about people having problems with the G-2 in the .308. Has anyone used one without the safety problem? Is this problem caused by not trimming the front right corner of the trigger cutout in the receiver? Also...If I use a choate drag stock does that count as two parts or one? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dinzag 31 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I don't see why the safety would engage different than any of the other ones. I have a RSA in mine and the trigger had to be shimmed due to the size of the hole in the receiver. As for parts count, I dunno. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Mine has no issue, except that the (Gay) factory BHO would not fit back in. Don't even try, you'll just piss yourself off! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
brain3278 1 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 The G2 works fine on mine. I hade to used the dremel cutting wheel to nip some excess metal off of the front of the hammer due to the position of the crossmember rivet. Works fine now. The safety on mine works somewhat. I really need to add some metal to the back of the disconnector. When I pull the trigger with the safety on the hammer releases and moves about a milimeter. Then I have to work the action to recock the hammer. But I never use the Safety on my AK's or most other guns for that matter. I never chamber a round until I'm going to shoot. Well I take that back I guess I use the safety on my AR and Remmington 30-06 when hunting. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nanuk 0 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I used a G2 FCG when I did my mod, it works great. The safety does not work, some day I will fix that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Ok so it sounds to me like the selector itself is the problem. Has anyone tried using a selector out of an S-12 or other Saiga? I'm getting ready to tear mine apart right now so I'll get to the bottom of this soon... What about the drag stock? Does anyone know for sure if ATF considers a thumbhole stock to be both PG and stock counted separately? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) What about the drag stock? Does anyone know for sure if ATF considers a thumbhole stock to be both PG and stock counted separately? U.S. made Drag (thumbhole) stocks count as one part. This is because the butt and grip are one-piece and cannot be used independantly of one another (a'la MAK-90 or factory Saiga butt). [UPDATE- It counts as one part because the rifle, as imported, uses an intergrated butt/grip, but, since you are using it presumably to allow use of some other evil feature, you only have 14 imported parts off the ATF list of 20 evil parts to centend with - ie: you only need 4 U.S. parts instead of the usual 5 (as used in most "AK-type" conversions) to use >10 round mags. In that respect, I guess it counts as two parts. But, for all practical purposes, you are just replacing the imported, factory 1-piece stock with it's US made equalivelant.] Edited January 2, 2007 by macbeau Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Alright so all I need to do to use one of those stocks is a basic conversion using a US made FCG and I'll be golden right? I can't believe I'm asking these questions..lol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Alright so all I need to do to use one of those stocks is a basic conversion using a US made FCG and I'll be golden right?I can't believe I'm asking these questions..lol. Yep - assuming you'll be using either the FBMG mags and not something imported that holds > 10 rounds. Here is another thought - you get 2 US parts out of the FBMG mags. Using FBMG mags with that US stock and say a US gas piston would be all you'd really need. ...But, since the factory FCG won't work with that stock, you might as well change it out. Just remeber, if you decided to go with a seperate stock / grip, you're back to needing 5 US parts on the conversion to use the FBMG mags.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Yeah I'll work on that. We have several stickied posts dealing with 922r but nobody seems to read anything over a week or so old. The thumbhole stock issue has been gone over and over but even I needed to be sure since I've never used one on a Saiga. Thanks for the help. As long as a US PG or stock is used as a replacement for the skeleton stock then it will be ok. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Eric86GT 0 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Cobra, I'm using a G2 in my .308 and the only problems were the safety/selector and clearance between x-member and hammer. I ground down the lobe that was hitting the rivet with the dremel. As for the safety I added a dab of JB Weld and then filed it down to fit. I'm sure any AK selector would work and would be better as you could file off only the amount of metal you would need to make it fit. I compared the S-308 safety vs. the S-7.62x39 safety and the funky factory 308 trigger is set-up with an additional metal piece. You can see where they have to file the safety down for it to work. After putting a new FCG in without the extra metal piece there is too much clearance between it and the safety. Shaneman, To get the factory BHO to work with the G2 you have to file a little off the right side of the hammer. Just file until it fits and it will work fine. I tried the floss trick to get the BHO spring in place, but I broke the floss even after trippling it up. I thought about fishing line, but I ended up just pushing down on the top of the spring with an awl and then pushing the pin through. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Groovy...that's just what I thought. Thanks Eric. Shaneman didn't you read my tutorial all the way thru man? LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 (4) Mounting blocks,trunion* * = Does not exist or apply on the SAIGA (AK) family of rifles. This part definitely does not count in the Saiga shotguns. I just want to confirm that it also does not apply to the Saiga AK rifles. Is that correct? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I still don't undertand that one Doc. I thought all AK rifles and shotguns had a front and rear trunnion. If they don't then wtf is that part riveted in the receiver that holds the bbl and buttstock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
headshot 52 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 I'm getting ready to convert my .308 and I've read about people having problems with the G-2 in the .308. Has anyone used one without the safety problem? Is this problem caused by not trimming the front right corner of the trigger cutout in the receiver? Also...If I use a choate drag stock does that count as two parts or one? Is this a joke? You are asking compliance and conversion questions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 (edited) I still don't undertand that one Doc. I thought all AK rifles and shotguns had a front and rear trunnion. If they don't then wtf is that part riveted in the receiver that holds the bbl and buttstock? I'm looking at that Soupbowl letter which seems to be the most definitive document relating to this parts count stuff. It clearly shows that the Saiga shotgun has no mounting block or trunion, but under the AK rifle column it says that AK rifles may or may not have this part and there is no specific reference to Saigas like there is for the shotguns. You could infer from the shotgun that the Saiga rifle also doesn't have this part as the construction is the same, but I can't find that definitely stated in writing anywhere, and the ATF has never been logical or consistent. That's why I figured I'd ask. Edited January 2, 2007 by tritium Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 (4) Mounting blocks,trunion* * = Does not exist or apply on the SAIGA (AK) family of rifles. This part definitely does not count in the Saiga shotguns. I just want to confirm that it also does not apply to the Saiga AK rifles. Is that correct? That is correct. On the stamped AK family of firearms, the ATF actually counts that as part of the receiver (**notice - I didn't say THE receiver**). That's something I discovered in my AMD-65 building days. Even though, on most imported parts kit, the "trunion" has the OEM serial number roller on it and can be removed from the sheet metal part of the receiver and is, in fact, a "trunion", the ATF considers it to be just a sub component of the receiver - like the rails and cross brace. I cannot, off the top of my head, think of an example of what the ATF considers to be a mounting block or trunion (UZI or STEN, maybe...), but it ain't what's on the Saiga's... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 (4) Mounting blocks,trunion* * = Does not exist or apply on the SAIGA (AK) family of rifles. This part definitely does not count in the Saiga shotguns. I just want to confirm that it also does not apply to the Saiga AK rifles. Is that correct? That is correct. On the stamped AK family of firearms, the ATF actually counts that as part of the receiver (**notice - I didn't say THE receiver**). That's something I discovered in my AMD-65 building days. Even though, on most imported parts kit, the "trunion" has the OEM serial number roller on it and can be removed from the sheet metal part of the receiver and is, in fact, a "trunion", the ATF considers it to be just a sub component of the receiver - like the rails and cross brace. I cannot, off the top of my head, think of an example of what the ATF considers to be a mounting block or trunion (UZI or STEN, maybe...), but it ain't what's on the Saiga's... Okay, that sure makes things more clear, and the explanation makes as much sense as possible, for an ATF concept. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 Yeah I know, tell me about it! I don't think anyone will ever know everything there is to know about this cockamany bullshit! If there was a way to sum it all up in one sticky post it would have been done years ago and 90% of all the questions asked on gun forums would be easily answered with a link and a wink. Instead it just stinks! I wish I had a Krink! I'd go shoot a mink. Instead I just drink. Uh oh Cobra's finally lost it I think... I'm getting ready to convert my .308 and I've read about people having problems with the G-2 in the .308. Has anyone used one without the safety problem? Is this problem caused by not trimming the front right corner of the trigger cutout in the receiver? Also...If I use a choate drag stock does that count as two parts or one? Is this a joke? You are asking compliance and conversion questions? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 If there was a way to sum it all up in one sticky post it would have been done years ago and 90% of all the questions asked on gun forums would be easily answered with a link and a wink. Instead it just stinks! I wish I had a Krink! I'd go shoot a mink. Instead I just drink. Uh oh Cobra's finally lost it I think... A case of Dr. Seuss-itis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted January 2, 2007 Report Share Posted January 2, 2007 At least your questions don't stink... ...and hopfully, you underwear's not pink... Otherwise, I'd have to puke in the sink... I think the confusion on the trunion thing came about because the AK family are the only rifles to be made with both stamped and milled receivers. I can't think of anything else that was made and/or imported that way. When the Tech-branch guys came up with the standards for AK's, I was told they based them off of a milled receiver. That is why all US stamped (80%) receivers have no "trunions" and have the SN on the sheet metal portion. Stupid - I know. Is this a joke? You are asking compliance and conversion questions? I was wondering about that myself???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bossman 1 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 The U.S. made drag type stocks count for 2 parts not one.Actually the mission you are on is eliminating imported parts rather than adding U.S. parts. The AKM type rifle has 15 parts that count on the 922 list you need to eliminate 5 imported parts by replacing with 5 U.S. made parts.When you convert,you add a pistol grip-oops-that needs to be eliminated. A choate or advanced tech drag stock eliminates the buttstock and pistol grip.The 3 piece G2 trigger set eliminates another 3 so then you have 10 imported parts remaining in your converted rifle and you are 922 compliant. A safety lever from a standard AKM (like the romanian) will work just dandy with the G2 in a saiga .308,no fitting or filing needed. Bossman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nanuk 0 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 LMAO. It looks like thr trigger pin on my 308 is cut lower, the reciever is lower in that spot than my AK's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shaneman153a 39 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 Groovy...that's just what I thought. Thanks Eric. Shaneman didn't you read my tutorial all the way thru man? LOL Like 2 years ago when I did the S-12. I just swagged this one, and I wouldn't dedicate an extra 30 seconds of work to get that bho back in, I just won't use it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 the "trunion" has the OEM serial number roller on it and can be removed from the sheet metal part of the receiver and is, in fact, a "trunion" Does that mean, then... in Theory... we could open up a WHOLE can of worms, by tearing apart a saiga receiver, and using that serial numbered trunnion in an 80% build, and then call that build a "Saiga" as it is already registered with that serial number? Likewise... if the rivets were removed, carefully... we could insert a NON Serialized trunnion in a Saiga with the trunnion removed and have a NON - registrable or legal firearm? as it has no serial number? In the parts kits... are the trunnions in those serialized or not??? this puts my brain into a whirl of wacky notions and confuzzled ideas... while visions of sugarplums dance in my head.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted January 3, 2007 Report Share Posted January 3, 2007 (edited) the "trunion" has the OEM serial number roller on it and can be removed from the sheet metal part of the receiver and is, in fact, a "trunion" Does that mean, then... in Theory... we could open up a WHOLE can of worms, by tearing apart a saiga receiver, and using that serial numbered trunnion in an 80% build, and then call that build a "Saiga" as it is already registered with that serial number? Likewise... if the rivets were removed, carefully... we could insert a NON Serialized trunnion in a Saiga with the trunnion removed and have a NON - registrable or legal firearm? as it has no serial number? In the parts kits... are the trunnions in those serialized or not??? this puts my brain into a whirl of wacky notions and confuzzled ideas... while visions of sugarplums dance in my head.... Yeah - that's a whole can of worms. On every stamped AK varient I have ever seen, the SN is on the trunion, but the ATF considers only the sheet metal portion to be the receiver. On aftermarket complete US made receivers (which come with the rails and cross brace in place but almost never with trunions installed), the SN is always stamped or rolled somewhere on the sheet metal. Home built receivers (80%, flats, pre-bent blanks) do not require SN's. According to ATF rules, assuming you are otherwise legal to own a firearm and your state doesn't prohibit it, you can build firearms from parts kits on a "home built" receivers (80% or less complete, flats, etc) using no serial numbers. The problem is, you can't re-sell them. It has to be for you and your use only, and technically, you have to build it. The other problem is what legally constitutes a "parts kit". As the AMD and AKM "parts kits entered the country, they were not considered firearms. The Saiga's were. I am not sure that by simply removing the sheet metal receiver, you "legally" render it a "parts kit" that you can then re-build how ever you want, but you probably can. The receiver, on the other hand, does not change in it's status unless it is destroyed or further registered as an NFA item. Carefully removing the rivets and re-using the receiver doesn't change it's status - once a long gun, always a long gun - unless registered on an ATF form 1 as an SBR or SBS. I am pretty sure, however, that you could build a firearm using a Saiga rifle parts (less the sheet metal receiver) as a pistol - using the "parts kit" on a virgin (80% or less) receiver or a finished receiver that is sold as a "pistol" on the 4473. (Only home-builds using 80% or less receivers can get by with no SN's. Completed receivers that transfer on 4473's are considered firearms and must have an SN.) You could also do it with a Saiga shotgun, but it would have to be registered as an AOW or SBS if the barrel ended up being under 18" and the OAL is under "26" and, if built on the 80% receiver, the ATF would then issue you an SN for it. One other thing - if you do an 80% or a flat or a finished US made receiver, it of course counts as a US part. Finally - "carefully" removing the rivets is much easier said than done. More specifically, replacing the rivets without removing the barrel from the front trunion and correctly spotting the rivet hole (screw holes) in the new receiver can be a challenge. A lot of folks who build from an 80%, a flat or completed receiver use grade 8 aircraft hex head screws to rebuild. Other make special rivet tools and press mandrels to replace the rivets. Others just mig/tig/arc weld it all together. Yeah - big can of worms... Edited January 3, 2007 by macbeau Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Cobra,polish the two surfaces where the hammer and trigger make contact on that G2.I use a small cloth wheel in the Dremil and some Flitz polish.,add a dot of lube and you will improve that trigger ,youll be amazed Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 Cobra,polish the two surfaces where the hammer and trigger make contact on that G2.I use a small cloth wheel in the Dremil and some Flitz polish.,add a dot of lube and you will improve that trigger ,youll be amazed Yep I do that on all my fcgs. Hell of a difference indeed. So you guys are buying disco springs for the G-2s I presume? I have few extra ones in some S-12 fcgs I guess could use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
747mech 1 Posted January 4, 2007 Report Share Posted January 4, 2007 As stated in other posts, the G2 will work, with minor mods. The G2 hammer can be easily be filed to fit by hand, in a vise with soft jaws. I had to grind a small amount of the reciever to fit the front of the trigger. My selector needs to be modified for a functional saftey. The 308 disconnector spring is larger in length and diameter than the G2 allows, use other AK. It is a slick trigger. Cutting a grip-nut hole sucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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