wiharu 0 Posted April 29, 2007 Report Share Posted April 29, 2007 Well, I finally got to take my Saiga out for a spin. My coworker just got a Ruger Mini 14 and we both ran out to throw some lead downrange. We both have piss poor eyesight and were shooting open sites, so we started with a 50 yard target... First Mag full: I shoot 10 rounds (my factory mag) and put them all in a 2" group; 8" above the black. Mr. Ruger shoots 5 rounds (his factory mag) and put a 2" group right near the center. Second - Fourth mag: I shoot 10 rounds and keep futzing around with the rear site forward and backward.... then I finally realize what one of the tools was for that the gun came with, it was to screw the front site up or down.... through this process, I realized that A) I liked shooting the Saiga and I am a total moron. Sitting there tryng to figure out if a site needs to go UP to shoot lower or DOWN to shoot lower.... (finally figured out that bringing the front site up, counter clockwise, will enable the gun to shoot lower). Mr. Ruger continues to shoot fairly consistantly. Quickly notice that sitting to my right is a BAD idea... my brass (OK, steel from Wolf) is beating the hell out of him. 5th mag: Finally I shoot in the black, hit the orange center, feeling good about myself and the gun. Mr. Ruger: seeing me enjoying myself, decides to get his 30 round mag out and shoot a LOT since I was now doing well. He's a mean bastard. I like that in a person... anyway his magazine fits in his gun, but the fully loaded magazine pushes the bullets so high that he can't rack it.... he has to remove 10 ROUNDS to get the bullets to sit low enough to feed.... I told him to call it his extra long 20 round clip... he ignored me. 6th - 10th mags: Move to 100 yards, open sites; We both shoot equally pathetic. Neither one of us are exactly setting records but, with open sites, unfamiliar gun, etc Neither one of us is bummed. Final Word The ruger is a well balanced gun, the slide stays back on the last shot fired, which is nice and it feels lighter... The Saiga is not as well balanced, but after the second clip, I felt at home with it. I was surprised at how much of a BOOM! the thing had. When I saw the 223 shells, I thought it wasn't much of a bullet.... I wouldn't want to hunt boar and trust it to put one down at a dead run, but when I pulled the trigger KaBOOM!!! loud. No kick to speak of. The thing jumps up, so you think it is kicking, but that is really the muzzle lifting more than an actual kick. I shoot a 12 gauge and it makes a big boom and right after you reallized your shoulder is on you back. My SAIGA, brand new, no warrantee: $268 +tax HIS Ruger Mini 14, used, no warrantee: $550 +tax Pound for pound.... I'd rather buy two Saigas than 1 Ruger. I'm not trashing the Ruger, it shot fine, but I didn't really feel the extra $300 in quality from the Mini. I do wish that the last shot would leave the rack open... The Saiga manual says not to dry fire the gun, but every magazine, i dry fired, because I'm a moron and can't count for nothing... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Pound for pound.... I'd rather buy two Saigas than 1 Ruger. I'm not trashing the Ruger, it shot fine, but I didn't really feel the extra $300 in quality from the Mini. I agree 100% - and I've owned three different Mini-14s. I do wish that the last shot would leave the rack open... The Saiga manual says not to dry fire the gun, but every magazine, i dry fired, because I'm a moron and can't count for nothing... The 'last-round-bolt-hold-open' on Mini-14s is dependent on the mags. Mags have always been a problem with the Minis. I owned a bunch of PMI 30-rd mags, and even had (temporary) problems with one or two of them. Other mags I owned fed perfectly - but would not activate the bolt-hold-open in every Mini I owned. In my opinion, you're much better off with a Saiga that will use 100% reliable military mags, than a Mini that is dependent on questionable and/or ultra-expensive after-market mags. Just my 2 cents worth... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Chimera 0 Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 The Saiga manual says not to dry fire the gun, but every magazine, i dry fired, because I'm a moron and can't count for nothing... Good report. Don't bother to count, the little that you dry fire after each mag won't hurt and it's a good test for flinching. And point out to your coworker that the Ruger costs more because it's expensive to print all that on the barrel about reading the manual. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 you heretic, convert ! Hey install a feed ramp and use 30 round mags and lough at the guy with the ruger when you pop round after round and he cant make that gun work with his 30 rounders. By the way something If trigger get FSE instad of G2 mags get galil oriltes, they work really good, or bulgarians. butt stock, go for the ACE skeleton with or with out hinge and if you want get and ultimak scope mount for the dreaded red dots if planing to leave the original hand guard get the ultimal made for the vepr easy to mod the original hand guard and look cool. feed ramp, by Din man here in the forum. Just a simple conversion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlackDog 1 Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Cool report Wiharu, sounds like you had lots of fun. It's always cool taking a new gun out and having a little competition too. The .223 round is cool, it's too bad it isn't dirt cheap anymore with surplus ammo like it was before. I own a mini-14 and a Saiga 223, I would rather have 2 mini's over 3 Saigas myself, (you guys are going to ream me over that opinion) but I live in a state where we can only buy 10 rounders anyways and even if you have LEGAL large pre-ban mags, you will get harassed (at a minimum) if any LEO sees you with them. The one dealer I go to says that in the past 6 months he has had more undercover agencies trying to set him up than he ever had in the last 20 years altogether. The other dealer I stop at occasionaly says his store is bugged. It bugs the crap out of me that the Saiga smashes the brass around the primer hole and leaves that big indentation and then I can't use the brass to reload. Thats my whole pet peave with my saiga. I know it sounds foolish too because the AR guys leave plenty of extra brass at the range for me to pick up and re-use for free. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pullnshoot25 0 Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Cool report Wiharu, sounds like you had lots of fun.It's always cool taking a new gun out and having a little competition too. The .223 round is cool, it's too bad it isn't dirt cheap anymore with surplus ammo like it was before. I own a mini-14 and a Saiga 223, I would rather have 2 mini's over 3 Saigas myself, (you guys are going to ream me over that opinion) but I live in a state where we can only buy 10 rounders anyways and even if you have LEGAL large pre-ban mags, you will get harassed (at a minimum) if any LEO sees you with them. The one dealer I go to says that in the past 6 months he has had more undercover agencies trying to set him up than he ever had in the last 20 years altogether. The other dealer I stop at occasionaly says his store is bugged. It bugs the crap out of me that the Saiga smashes the brass around the primer hole and leaves that big indentation and then I can't use the brass to reload. Thats my whole pet peave with my saiga. I know it sounds foolish too because the AR guys leave plenty of extra brass at the range for me to pick up and re-use for free. Is there a way to fix the brass smashing problem? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 Is there a way to fix the brass smashing problem? http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=16522 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlackDog 1 Posted April 30, 2007 Report Share Posted April 30, 2007 No, this brass smashing problem, I can't get a primer to back into this. Some reloading business probably has some sort of casing/primer hole resizer, but I can't imagine it is cheap. By the looks of things, I could run out of brass at any moment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted May 1, 2007 Report Share Posted May 1, 2007 (edited) Perhaps you could take a bit off the end of the firing pin- maybe it's just hair too long? Edited May 1, 2007 by JK-47 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
studmuff1228 0 Posted May 11, 2007 Report Share Posted May 11, 2007 I have the same problem with brass from my saiga 223. But it reloaded just fine, all i needed to do was give my nifty lee chamfer tool a few turns in the primer pocket that solved the problem. Hopefully you can do the same. Anyone have any idea y they put this little tit on the bolt face? Maybe so it can't be reloaded, or for a better seal around the primer. black dog if you find this brass useless i would gladly take it off your hands =) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Burboy 0 Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 Dillon sells a tool that cleans up the crimped primer pockets on military brass. I don't think it is very expensive. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5 Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 No, this brass smashing problem,I can't get a primer to back into this. Some reloading business probably has some sort of casing/primer hole resizer, but I can't imagine it is cheap. By the looks of things, I could run out of brass at any moment. You might be better off ditching the military crimp stuff on ebay and starting over with some name brand brass (remington, winchester, etc) without a crimped primer pocket. The military stuff is thicker and maybe lasts longer, but it's more work. Some people really like it, but for ease of loading (especially the initial pass where you need to remove the crimp) it's a PITA. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlackDog 1 Posted May 12, 2007 Report Share Posted May 12, 2007 I ground that little edge right off the face of the bolt. I probably touched the extractor and the pin with the dremel bit, but it all works fine still. The brass looks just fine too, no signs of a compressed area, so I would imagine a new primer will press right in now. I'll probably prep some cases tonight and see for sure. The brass is in the tumbler right now. I had tried the Lee chamfer tool, but no luck. I throw the crimped brass out, I don't see too much of that anyways. The AR boys leave me nice brass to pick up: Hornady, S&B, Lake City, Rem, Federal. I have a few thousand pieces of good collected brass. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bad Bob 0 Posted May 14, 2007 Report Share Posted May 14, 2007 The AR boys leave me nice brass to pick up: Hornady, S&B, Lake City, Rem, Federal. I have a few thousand pieces of good collected brass. It's really amazing what folks will leave at the range. I've even picked up Kynoch & Norma casings (but then, I'm an old fart ;>)... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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