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#1 topmaul

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 03:58 PM

Shot a Tactical Shotgun Match today, and I found that I'm pretty rusty, I only have a few Pictures, these Saiga Get togethers are great for swapping ideas and discussing all things Saiga! My APG mags ran great.

See ya later!

RonSwin,
How was the side Carbine match?

Edited by topmaul, 19 May 2007 - 05:38 PM.

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#2 Ronswin

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Posted 19 May 2007 - 07:21 PM

John,
great to see you and Johnnygun. I found I have to do some "tweaking" of my AGP mags and I aprecieate the tips on what to do. I did not shoot much of the carbine match as my SW-10 was shooting 6 inches high at 35 yds. and I didn't bring the HK sight adjustment tool. Hope to see you and Eric at Blackcreek next Saturday.

Shot a Tactical Shotgun Match today, and I found that I'm pretty rusty, I only have a few Pictures, these Saiga Get togethers are great for swapping ideas and discussing all things Saiga! My APG mags ran great.

See ya later!

RonSwin,
How was the side Carbine match?


RonSwin

#3 topmaul

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:38 AM

I have a family Reunion next weekend I I will be down near Fayetteville,

The BW shirt fit Eric fine, thanks for all that 8mm!!!!!

A little sanding and filing will fix those APG's I only had one minor snag the whole day, and that may be due to the wide varity of ammunition that I used (tried to get rid of the extra left overs I has around the house).

JonnyGun what did you think?

Edited by topmaul, 20 May 2007 - 05:49 AM.

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#4 mccumber1916

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 10:08 AM

Shot a Tactical Shotgun Match today, and I found that I'm pretty rusty, I only have a few Pictures, these Saiga Get togethers are great for swapping ideas and discussing all things Saiga! My APG mags ran great.

See ya later!

RonSwin,
How was the side Carbine match?


were you guys looking for a mole type mag pouch
or someone else?... anyway i found this and thought of you competitors
it seems like it could hold 8 or 9 with the top open and hold tols in other pouches
Attached File  boker_pack.gif   11.22KB   38 downloads
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#5 topmaul

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:24 PM

Shot a Tactical Shotgun Match today, and I found that I'm pretty rusty, I only have a few Pictures, these Saiga Get togethers are great for swapping ideas and discussing all things Saiga! My APG mags ran great.

See ya later!

RonSwin,
How was the side Carbine match?


were you guys looking for a mole type mag pouch
or someone else?... anyway i found this and thought of you competitors
it seems like it could hold 8 or 9 with the top open and hold tols in other pouches
Attached File  boker_pack.gif   11.22KB   38 downloads


I use a Russian Assualt Vest, RonSwin uses a Russian (I think) AK chest rig with elastic across the magazine pouches. Unlike most people I have my mags in the Assualt Vest pockets shell up facing forward, it saves having to flip it around to load. Kmoore has hooks on his mags so he can hang them from his belt which I think is a great idea.

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#6 topmaul

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 02:39 PM

What Choke to you guys recommend? I use Full I find that there are always a few steels that refuse to die!

Edited by topmaul, 20 May 2007 - 03:25 PM.

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#7 kmoore

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:06 PM

What Choke to you guys recommend? I use Full I find that there are always a few steels that refuse to die!

NCRR is different from most matches as it caps your shot size (for others, this is because it backs to a freeway).

Normally, you would run a modified choke for 95% of the time, and use shell selection to handle stubborn steel. Couple of the better shooters on benos.com pretty much glue the mod choke in, and use diff shells to handle odd stuff (spreaders for close, heavy for stubborn).

If you can adjust your choke, then you should choke to make the most difficult shot of the cof, and then you just slow down to make the closer, easier stuff. So if you have 5 steel plates at 30yds and 15 close clays the conventional wisdom is to choke tight for the plates, then slow down on the clays.

For a fixed choke gun, full will allow you to make all shots, but it comes at a cost. Say you have an array of 3 flippers. someone with modified choke will be able to hit all three, then pick the birds off, but with full you'll need to bear down on the flyers and likely shoot them individually. The cost? That's a lot of time! So, it comes down to shooting style, and your philosophy. Shooting on the move, and close arrays of clays is a lot funner/faster with a looser choke. But it sucks not being able to be able to make the tough steel fall :(

#8 topmaul

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:09 PM

Kenneth,
I see your point, but I just got so used to it at NCRR that I would not know what to do with a wider choke.

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#9 tnek

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:20 PM

Didnt APG show some kind of mag pouch on thier web site?? I cant see it now. My 109 should be here this week and a poly choke and APG mags will be on order Monday. I used my Win SX2 today for a 3 gun match but Im looking fwd to a chance to play with the Saga. I also have a wraithmaker on order. Man thats gonna clean a couple stages!

#10 Ronswin

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 06:13 AM

Didnt APG show some kind of mag pouch on thier web site?? I cant see it now. My 109 should be here this week and a poly choke and APG mags will be on order Monday. I used my Win SX2 today for a 3 gun match but Im looking fwd to a chance to play with the Saga. I also have a wraithmaker on order. Man thats gonna clean a couple stages!



Tnek,
I predict your SX2 will be occupying a dark corner of your gunsafe once you get your Saiga-12 and have some time to shoot it. Spend some time practicing the mag changes as this is where you will eat the most time while on the clock. It will get to be second nature to you after a few matches and some range time.
RonSwin

#11 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 09:45 AM

Hey all you three gunners!
I've pinned this topic at the top so you guys can always get to it right on the first page. John thanks for starting it and Eric, Ron, Kenneth, Robb, all you guys, keep us up to date on happenings on the competitive circuit. Hopefully one of these days I can show up and do more than just watch...
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#12 Ronswin

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 10:10 AM

Hey all you three gunners!
I've pinned this topic at the top so you guys can always get to it right on the first page. John thanks for starting it and Eric, Ron, Kenneth, Robb, all you guys, keep us up to date on happenings on the competitive circuit. Hopefully one of these days I can show up and do more than just watch...


Cobra,
Thanks for pinning this thread as competition is the best advertisement for the Saiga-12. We definately will be looking for you and your Saiga at NCRR this summer. I plan to use mine this year at the NC Recon, the NC Tactical Invitational, NCRR, Ft. Benning 3-gun and possibly the Area 6 USPSA 3-Gun Championship .
Our motto is "work is for time between 3-gun events"!! :up:
RonSwin

#13 tnek

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 04:06 PM

Thanks for making this a subforum.
Now I have a couple more Q's
My gun is shipping to my FFL as I type, I just ordered 4 AGP mags and Polychoke is backordered for about 2 weeks.
What are the next most helpfull parts and at home mods to facilitate 3 gun usage?
I see info on bolt hold open and extened hold opens but not much on who sells them. Same for mag release. I dont want a dot at this point but a nice fibre optic front sight and a ghost ring rear sounds like where I would like to start off.
What is the thing with dremeling the bolt for a full mag?? The stovepipe looking bolt handle?
At this point Id just like to do a few things to facilitate the ease of use for 3 gun and leave the stock config for the moment. Id like to use it a couple months like that and determine if I want to do more then Id send it to Tromix for a more profesional job and finish. For now I just want to get comfortable with it and see where this experiment takes me.
What say you fellow 3 gunners?

#14 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 04:34 PM

Thanks for making this a subforum.
Now I have a couple more Q's
My gun is shipping to my FFL as I type, I just ordered 4 AGP mags and Polychoke is backordered for about 2 weeks.
What are the next most helpfull parts and at home mods to facilitate 3 gun usage?
I see info on bolt hold open and extened hold opens but not much on who sells them. Same for mag release. I dont want a dot at this point but a nice fibre optic front sight and a ghost ring rear sounds like where I would like to start off.
What is the thing with dremeling the bolt for a full mag?? The stovepipe looking bolt handle?
At this point Id just like to do a few things to facilitate the ease of use for 3 gun and leave the stock config for the moment. Id like to use it a couple months like that and determine if I want to do more then Id send it to Tromix for a more profesional job and finish. For now I just want to get comfortable with it and see where this experiment takes me.
What say you fellow 3 gunners?

What most peole just don't seem to understand is these are imported weapons. You can't just change a part here and part there. You just about HAVE to do the PG conversion or at least change enough parts the first time to be able to use all the available accessories.

About the only things I can think of that you can do to it without playing the 922r game are:

recoil buffer
recoil pad
different sights
optics
extended mag release (Jeric at Warfield Armory)
BHO or LRBHO (Same place)
polishing your FCG to make it smoother
barrel crowning
slings
ventillated handguards/ forearms
paint

ummm...anything else guys?
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- Bolt & Carrier Mods and Polishing > http://www.Cobras-Custom.com <
Details on Cobra's Custom ReliabilitySystem >> http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90388-new-ak-saiga-vepr-bolt-and-trigger-service-no-extra-waiting/
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#15 tnek

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 04:37 PM

Thanks for making this a subforum.
Now I have a couple more Q's
My gun is shipping to my FFL as I type, I just ordered 4 AGP mags and Polychoke is backordered for about 2 weeks.
What are the next most helpfull parts and at home mods to facilitate 3 gun usage?
I see info on bolt hold open and extened hold opens but not much on who sells them. Same for mag release. I dont want a dot at this point but a nice fibre optic front sight and a ghost ring rear sounds like where I would like to start off.
What is the thing with dremeling the bolt for a full mag?? The stovepipe looking bolt handle?
At this point Id just like to do a few things to facilitate the ease of use for 3 gun and leave the stock config for the moment. Id like to use it a couple months like that and determine if I want to do more then Id send it to Tromix for a more profesional job and finish. For now I just want to get comfortable with it and see where this experiment takes me.
What say you fellow 3 gunners?

What most peole just don't seem to understand is these are imported weapons. You can't just change a part here and part there. You just about HAVE to do the PG conversion or at least change enough parts the first time to be able to use all the available accessories.

About the only things I can think of that you can do to it without playing the 922r game are:

recoil buffer
recoil pad
different sights
optics
extended mag release (Jeric at Warfield Armory)
BHO or LRBHO (Same place)
polishing your FCG to make it smoother
barrel crowning
slings
ventillated handguards/ forearms
paint

ummm...anything else guys?


Soo, does that mean that unless I change the fire control group to the pistol grip type I cant install the extended mag release or BHO?

#16 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 04:40 PM

No I said you CAN do all those things without converting.
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#17 kmoore

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 10:14 PM

I think the only mod that will require 922r compliance is the addition of a pistol grip. Or using a factory (foriegn) 8 round mag. Otherwise, it is still sporting, or in the case of using a 10 round mag it isn't deemed sporting but it also doesn't have a foriegn mag body, floorplate or follower. Same with a drum.

Your sights idea is good, but I don't know which to recommend. I'd also think the G3 sights that Tony adds would be slick!

Here's a note I just posted elsewhere ...

=============================================

Does anyone have any suggestions on modifications or conversions for 3 gun?


I'd shoot it a bunch, then decide what you'd like to tweak.

Area's to work on:

Do you want it converted to a pistol grip?
Get you mags/drums reliable (if they aren't). AGP's 10 rounders are the ticket! Factory 8's are good too, but pricey. 5 round mags have thier place.
Figure out how you want to carry the mags. Vest, belt, etc. This can affect the reload style you settle on.
Find the birdshot that it likes.
Does the choke you have do what you want? Modified is a good all around choice, but getting the gun to take changeable chokes is better.
Find the buckshot that it likes.
Sight it in.
Figure out the gas settings for bird/buck/slugs.
Work on your reloads. Do you want to grind the bolt?
There are several styles of reloading, so find what you like.
Do you want a last round bolt hold open (see Jeric).
Do you want an extended mag release (again, see Jeric).
Find the stock length that works for you.
Do you need a cheek piece to get a proper sight picture?
sights are a big decision. There are a lot of options here.
Do you like VFG?
muzzle brake?
Smooth out the action, polish contact points. Especially between bolt and hammer.


Some of this stuff needs to be worked out to match the kinds of matchs you will shoot. USPSA has the only universal set of rules that I know of. Most other matches have their own thier own brand of rules. This can affect your choice of optics/sights, brakes, shot useage, etc.

Some folks have worked out a magwell, but nothing universal.

I know this isn't much help, but a lot depends on what you want and the matches you shoot.

Good Luck, it's a lot of fun!
================================================

#18 Johnny Gun

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 10:20 PM

I have a family Reunion next weekend I I will be down near Fayetteville,

The BW shirt fit Eric fine, thanks for all that 8mm!!!!!

A little sanding and filing will fix those APG's I only had one minor snag the whole day, and that may be due to the wide varity of ammunition that I used (tried to get rid of the extra left overs I has around the house).

JonnyGun what did you think?



:lolol: :rolleyes: I just posted some pics of the shotfun match in the general S-12 section. I did not know the thread had been moved to this area untill two seconds after I posted it. I thought it was strange that there was no mention of the match in the old thread! John, got a agreat shot of you posted (lefty). My stock AGP mags ran just fine with AA Winchester 7 1/2. Definately need that choke set, the Texas stars were tough!

The match was fun but the best part was getting a chance to look at and handle all the Saigas up close and personal. It gave me a lot of ideas on how I want to proceed with Ivans conversion. I was trying to figure out how to modify Ivans trigger guard and it was interesting to see that each Saiga conversion handeled the challange differently. :smoke:

#19 tnek

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:27 AM

I think the only mod that will require 922r compliance is the addition of a pistol grip. Or using a factory (foriegn) 8 round mag. Otherwise, it is still sporting, or in the case of using a 10 round mag it isn't deemed sporting but it also doesn't have a foriegn mag body, floorplate or follower. Same with a drum.

Your sights idea is good, but I don't know which to recommend. I'd also think the G3 sights that Tony adds would be slick!

Here's a note I just posted elsewhere ...

=============================================

Does anyone have any suggestions on modifications or conversions for 3 gun?


I'd shoot it a bunch, then decide what you'd like to tweak.

Area's to work on:

Do you want it converted to a pistol grip?
Get you mags/drums reliable (if they aren't). AGP's 10 rounders are the ticket! Factory 8's are good too, but pricey. 5 round mags have thier place.
Figure out how you want to carry the mags. Vest, belt, etc. This can affect the reload style you settle on.
Find the birdshot that it likes.
Does the choke you have do what you want? Modified is a good all around choice, but getting the gun to take changeable chokes is better.
Find the buckshot that it likes.
Sight it in.
Figure out the gas settings for bird/buck/slugs.
Work on your reloads. Do you want to grind the bolt?
There are several styles of reloading, so find what you like.
Do you want a last round bolt hold open (see Jeric).
Do you want an extended mag release (again, see Jeric).
Find the stock length that works for you.
Do you need a cheek piece to get a proper sight picture?
sights are a big decision. There are a lot of options here.
Do you like VFG?
muzzle brake?
Smooth out the action, polish contact points. Especially between bolt and hammer.


Some of this stuff needs to be worked out to match the kinds of matchs you will shoot. USPSA has the only universal set of rules that I know of. Most other matches have their own thier own brand of rules. This can affect your choice of optics/sights, brakes, shot useage, etc.

Some folks have worked out a magwell, but nothing universal.

I know this isn't much help, but a lot depends on what you want and the matches you shoot.

Good Luck, it's a lot of fun!
================================================


kmoore,, the areas to work on are pretty much what I was thinking of. Get the shotty and figure out what feels good. I would like to see some more info on the bolt grind item. I need to search the forum here when I get a moment to do so. Im just getting into the Saiga picture and have a lot to learn and catch up on.

#20 .40AET

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:34 AM

I dont want a dot at this point but a nice fibre optic front sight and a ghost ring rear sounds like where I would like to start off.
What say you fellow 3 gunners?

I can't speak for other match rules. But, in USPSA the detachable magazine puts you in Open. So, you might as well think about an optic.

#21 tnek

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:40 AM

I dont want a dot at this point but a nice fibre optic front sight and a ghost ring rear sounds like where I would like to start off.
What say you fellow 3 gunners?

I can't speak for other match rules. But, in USPSA the detachable magazine puts you in Open. So, you might as well think about an optic.

I know but I still dont know if I want a dot. Im not exactly concerned about winning and taking home the Buick, its about the fun factor. Im still going too shoot a SS in L10 pistol but I know Ill still be open overall. If anything gets a dot now it will be my Wilson or a new stainless 45 with a dot. I dont care for the 2011 platforms grip.

#22 topmaul

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 05:41 AM

40AET,
I agree but I want to get something like what Jammer made or an Ultimak, the thing is I want to keep the optic as low as possible until then I will keep using my irons.

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#23 .40AET

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 08:18 AM

I don't care for the 2011 platforms grip.

Tnek- You should take a look at the Caspian guns. The grip is very close to a 1911 grip. Hi cap mags are available again and the gun is back in the competition market.

#24 tnek

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 03:58 PM

I don't care for the 2011 platforms grip.

Tnek- You should take a look at the Caspian guns. The grip is very close to a 1911 grip. Hi cap mags are available again and the gun is back in the competition market.

Thanks but Im done. I just got thru buying (and selling) a STI Edge and while I like it I just am a 1911 45 guy at heart.
The way multigun and 3 gun stages are a 45 with 10 round mags IS a disadvantage but there are some stages where its not as big of a difference as in pure pistol matches. I can live with it and for me its all about the fun factor.

#25 BobAsh

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 10:13 PM

I just want to mention to you guys that Tromix will be at the USPSA Nationals in October.

Come down and hang out with the Internet Legend, Tony Rumore, and the Elitist Douchebag, Bob Ash.

Oh yeah and see the latest Tromix offerings.
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#26 Jeaux E

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 11:20 PM

.....noted ! (Internet Legend & Elitist Douchebag......heh, heh, heh.........)
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.........Time flies whether you're having fun or not, so let the good times roll !!!!

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#27 Makc

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Posted 26 May 2007 - 11:59 PM

How do you qualify to be an "Internet Legend" I want to give it a shot too...

Where is the "USPSA Nationals in October" going to be held? TULSA, OK? I want to hang out with the legends!
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http://www.saiga-12.com
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http://forum.saiga-12.com/donations

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#28 Jeaux E

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Posted 27 May 2007 - 12:14 AM

Tulsa, Oklahoma..........Oct. 4th through Oct. 7 !!!!

That'd really be cool......a chance to meet Makc !! (A Legend in his own Right!!!!!)

:super: :super: :super: :super: :up:
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#29 topmaul

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 08:15 AM

NCRR monthly Shotgun Match is coming up June 16th, Eric will be there this time hope to see Saiga's there in force this month, bring water it's going to be hot!

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#30 Johnny Gun

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Posted 02 June 2007 - 06:08 PM

topmaul, I was spending what little spare time I have getting ready for June's NCRR shotfun match. My wife just reminded me that I a suppose to be washing cars for Jesus that Saturday....and she is right. Youth fund raiser of which i am treasurer and chief hose supplier...so I guess I will have to set this one out. Post some info & pics though. I am setting July 21 aside for my Saiga friends though!



Gun Control Is Hitting What You Aimed At

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