Proving Compliance???

[snuffysmith 0]

Hi, I'm, brand new(still in cosmoline) and for my first post I got a dumb question. I've been reading a lot about needing 5 or 6 parts made in USA to stay out of trouble. How do you prove it. Do you have to carry receipts around with you or something?

I want to buy a Saiga when the money gets a little looser and any help you folks can give me will be a big help.

All for now, thanks for the help.

 

Snuffy

 

 

 

time & weather changes everything

[reoiv 1]

Hi, I'm, brand new(still in cosmoline) and for my first post I got a dumb question. I've been reading a lot about needing 5 or 6 parts made in USA to stay out of trouble. How do you prove it. Do you have to carry receipts around with you or something?

I want to buy a Saiga when the money gets a little looser and any help you folks can give me will be a big help.

All for now, thanks for the help.

 

Snuffy

 

 

 

time & weather changes everything

 

The easiest way to prove it is to have parts that have MADE IN USA stamped on them.

 

Tapco is really good about this in that they stamp USA on everything Including the individual trigger group components and pistons.

 

Though ultimately I see that as one of the reasons 922® is just not enforced that much. When it isn't just obvious (like a T6 stock on an otherwise normal SKS) it is really hard to prove which part isn't US made and which isn't.

 

Also what about if you change a hammer or bolt. Like how the G2 hammer has to be ground down for the 308. Could it then be claimed as an American part since it was manufactured in America at that point?

 

If so at that point one could argue all you have to do is alter each one of the parts beyond a basic cosmetic change and they would be American parts.

[MD_Willington 11]

I also kept the packaging... though now that I think of it, the packaging could have been made in the USA, but the parts???

 

For the most part my parts have US on them.

[kresk 10,063]

So far as grinding on a hammer, once a foreign part, always a foreign part, no matter what you do to it. Don't think there are any US made bolts generally available to swap out so don't worry about that particular part.

[nalioth 405]

Like how the G2 hammer has to be ground down for the 308. Could it then be claimed as an American part since it was manufactured in America at that point?

 

If so at that point one could argue all you have to do is alter each one of the parts beyond a basic cosmetic change and they would be American parts.

Huh? If you grind on an American made part, and you're an American, how would that change anything?

 

The rule is: if you take a foreign part, grind it, weld it, glue it, etc, if it still functions as the same part, it is still considered 'foreign made'.

 

So if you take a foreign AK hammer, and somehow weld, drill, grind it into an AK 'trigger', it would be considered US made, since the purpose has changed.

 

If you take the same hammer, and chop it, grind it or whatever to increase functionality, it'd still be considered 'foreign made', since the purpose is the same.

 

 

You can have as many US made parts in your 922r accountable weapons, just so long as you don't have more than 10 foreign parts.

 

Century compliance parts have a "C" on them somewhere (with the exception of their gas piston, which looks different from the commie piston, and is made of stainless steel)

Tapco (as remarked above) are good at marking their stuff.

 

Most individuals who make compliance parts, mark them USA, but as a hand made part is very distinctive, this is more a buyers request than them makers desire.

 

This brake is not likely to be mistaken for communist made. It was made by hotbarrel over at gunco.

Edited August 3, 2007 by nalioth

[Hunter78 1]

That is why 922 is not really enforced. They have to prove you broke the law. I never seen anything that required the parts to be marked. They can't really prove something isn't a domestic part unless it is marked made in china or something, but that doesn't mean they couldn't cause you major legal headaches. For total piece of mind though and to ensure lawyers are not necessary just use parts that are marked if it makes you feel better.

[dinzag 31]

I like to be on the safe side and use only US made & marked parts.

My brakes Tony made for my shotties have both been stamped by me to say USA. If I make something that counts as a part, I made sure it is marked.

 

I've bought a lot of "US made" parts that weren't marked and I don't count on them as such.

BRG3 doesn't mark his furniture, but I burned US in them just for my piece of mind.

Ironwood Designs doesn't mark their stuff either. At least the set I bought awhile ago.

 

I don't save receipts or packaging either - waste of time. If the part is marked, that's good enough for me.

 

Century marks their parts with a "C", not "US", but that is their standard practice and could be proved it is their part. Tapco does it right.

[TWGLADF 0]

i still strongly believe that the 922r is only meant to string you up if the weapon is used in a crime or is related to a crime.

 

i seriously doubt that the atf will roll up to your range and start checking parts.

 

and i'll be damned if i'm gonna pack around a bunch of receipts.

 

it is up to them to prove that the parts are non-U.S. not up to you to prove that they are U.S.

 

besides, all you would have to do is electro pencil or stamp "U.S. MADE" on your parts and how the hell can they prove otherwise.

 

here in AMERICA the burden of proof is "supposed to be" on the accuser, not the accused.

Edited August 4, 2007 by TWGLADF

[loner42 6]

[ Quote ]

The rule is: if you take a foreign part, grind it, weld it, glue it, etc, if it still functions as the same part, it is still considered 'foreign made'.

 

Could you give us a reference as to where this rule is located? I would like to see it in print.

Is it in a BATF letter or what? I've never seen any such ruling, has anyone else?

 

 

 

This brake is not likely to be mistaken for communist made. It was made by hotbarrel over at gunco.

 

 

 

Do you really think the average BATF agent could distinguish that brake from one made in china or taiwan or any other country in the world? I kinda doubt it.................

 

I think it would be very interesting to see if someone could research and find out just how many people have been arrested and prosecuted for violating sec.922r since it was created.

 

My 02 centavos........................

Edited August 4, 2007 by loner42

[nalioth 405]

The rule is: if you take a foreign part, grind it, weld it, glue it, etc, if it still functions as the same part, it is still considered 'foreign made'.

 

Could you give us a reference as to where this rule is located? I would like to see it in print.

Is it in a BATF letter or what? I've never seen any such ruling, has anyone else?

As requested:

 

 

This brake is not likely to be mistaken for communist made. It was made by hotbarrel over at gunco.

Do you really think the average BATF agent could distinguish that brake from one made in china or taiwan or any other country in the world? I kinda doubt it.................

I expect the alphabet gang will impound any firearm they suspect. When they have it in their possesion, they'll figure it out. Edited August 4, 2007 by nalioth

[snuffysmith 0]

Thanks everyone,

I believe I'll make sure all my parts are red/white/& blue and marked or stamped that way.

Snuffy

[MD_Willington 11]

So I asked before if machining a foreign part could make it a domestic part, the reason I asked is for a .45ACP carbine conversion of the AK bolt, the Russians or no one except an American have made a 45ACP version of the AKM...

 

The same guy that made the "AK-45" did quite a bit of machine work on a bolt for his conversion...

 

 

I liked seeing the BATFE letter...

[Buzz 0]

That's an interesting letter, but once you begin to talk about altering a part to a different use it goes beyond what the letter is saying. It talks about configuration and modification, not altering a part to a different use. In no terms is the issue of original or subsequent use mentioned. While I would agree that altering a part to another use would arguably make it US manufacture, for example a hammer to a trigger, the letter does not directly deal with that situation and any authority as to this situation is only by inference. The letter also does not limit those "instances" to alteration of use. They only suggest that there may be "instances" where alteration or modification could change the country of manufacture.

 

The letter actually says very, very little. Reading more into a letter like this than what is there is dangerous.

 

Buzz

Edited August 13, 2007 by Buzz

[Azrial 1,091]

I have a folder that is my build book for all my firearms that have a 922R concern. I keep all my packaging in it, my receipts, keep track of the costs of my build, first targets, and ideas for future mods in it. It helps me keep up with thinks and would be the document I bring in to court to support the fact that my firearm is in compliance.

[Buzz 0]

I have a folder that is my build book for all my firearms that have a 922R concern. I keep all my packaging in it, my receipts, keep track of the costs of my build, first targets, and ideas for future mods in it. It helps me keep up with thinks and would be the document I bring in to court to support the fact that my firearm is in compliance.

 

An excellent idea. I've thought about this, that even 922r aside, each gun that I own should have a file of its own.

[Willie D 2]

Better safe than sorry I guess but Law Enforcement can't take your property/gun and go looking under the hood without a warrant or probable cause.

 

Do they check everyone's Romanian AKs/Fals/Cetmes at the range for parts count?

 

 

I think they would only use 922r in an Al Capone-like situation, ie. they want to nail you but don't have a stronger case against you. Like I said before, they've never given Killimall (gunbroker) a cease and desist or use it as a pile-on charge for Chai Vang (WI hunter murders).

[deafdrummer 0]

and i'll be damned if i'm gonna pack around a bunch of receipts.

 

In that case, I'm damned, because I have my receipts, copies of my Internet relay calls for the deaf transcripts that shows the phone number, asking if it was so-and-so company, and referencing the part number on the receipt, and asking them if the product or part is US-made, and their response. I also have a signed letter stating that a part that was replaced in my gun with a US-made part, and I also have copies of the federal legislation regarding the parts count and state laws regarding firearms confiscation, the castle doctrine, and I keep copies at home and one full set in my gun case. If I had to go out in the field, then the papers go into a waterproof map envelope and it's stuck in my ALICE pack. Soon, when I get a handgun before I have the money to get my CHL, I will also have the printout for HB 1815, which clears up any ambiguities in the Texas Penal Code to make it clear that law-abiding Texans can possess handguns in their personal vehicles without needing a Concealed Handgun License.