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Safir T-14


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#1 Joe Blasco

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 08:14 AM

Hi recently on my trip to Europe I was able to get my hands on the Safir T-14. These are my impressions…
The shotgun is built using components of the AR-15 weapon system so there is a strong resemblance. The but stock, upper and lower receiver(s) are the same, with a different bolt and barrel assembly. It uses metal magazines of the AR-15 type which are modified to accommodate ten .410 cartridges. I read some comments about Vepr 12, well Safir T-14 is a well made gun looking high tech.

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Since it is based on the AR-15, receivers are made of aluminum and a lot of plastic components are used. That makes the gun considerably lightweight comparing to the Saiga type of shotguns. Ofcourse the use of the AR receivers does prohibit the further exploitation of the Stoner design for a family of shotguns as there is not enough real property for a 12 gauge, not even a .410 magnum. Thatís why Safir was limited to .410 only. I remember Bill Holmes did in the past design and made some shotguns in pump action which had some concepts of the AR platform at least in modularity, fabricating his own receivers in bigger dimensions to accommodate the bulkier shell.
T-14 can have a retractable butstock or a fixed one. The one that I tested came with the fixed one with the standard trap and compartment for the storing of cleaning accessories.
Although the short hand guards are used in some models there is no carbine version to apply with the Turkish prohibitive barrel length restrictions.
Safir utilises the AR 15 magazines. The follower doesnít have the steep angle of Saiga and itís fabricated from metal . Interestingly the magazine spring is much shorter than the one in Saiga and conclusively less springy. That means that the Safir ten round magazine is shorter in overall and much more easier to accommodate in somebodyís pocket, pouch etc. Also it is much easier to load the magazine manually. The 410 shells are arranged in the magazine box same way as in the Saiga (the rim of the bottom shell is placed a litlle bit to the back, in relation to the rim of the upper shell). Contrary to Saiga shotguns the metal AR magazines can be easily be found and modified by somebody with some skills at hands and a Dremel imitating the follower contours should be no problem.
As in the AR-15 one does not have to change his pistol grip during reloading. A magazine can be changed by pressing the magazine release button with the index finger of the right hand and inserting the magazine with the left. Cocking the gun is made with the left hand pulling the charging handle to the rear and afterwards the bolt catch should be pressed.
After that the gun is ready for firing. Safety cannot be engaged if the gun is unloaded.
It impressed me with itís accuracy. I could very easily hit center at 90 yds. Thereís very little felt recoil and muzzle lift .The gun is very easy to shoot and controllable.
When the last round is spent the bolt remains in the open position locked. A full magazine is inserted, bolt catch is pressed again and so goes on…

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Safir T-14 does suffer though from the fundamental problem of all box type magazine shotguns -feeding malfunctions. However it should be understood that all these types of shotguns are derivatives of rifles in which ofcourse a pointed bullet is much more easier to consistently feed properly than a blunt ended shell. In the case of Safir for my tests I used Winchester and Remington slugs made in US. Winchesters were unable to feed properly while with Remington I noticed no malfunction at all. After a cursory examination it was found that Winchester shells are a little bit wider on the front end lip of the plastic ferrule which forbids them from entering properly into the chamber. With Remington I fired over a hundred rounds with no malfunction and the gun worked smoothly.
Generally I liked very much behavior of this gun. It has all the standard pluses of Stonerís design over Kalashnikovís and all what are considered by many minuses.
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What I found as a major drawback is itís price comparing to the punch…
It costs around 1200E in Europe, around 1700$ which is way too much.. . Secondly the gun did only function with the Remington slugs which –behold- cost 1.30 E a round. So every time a magazine is spent so deeper goes oneís pocket.
I have read posts on this forum commenting about the unavailability of such a US made shotgun. Well it is very difficult to understand the purpose of such a gun.
Safir T-14 in the literature accompanying the gun is designated as a hunting shotgun with many photos of boar taken by it. Now I am not an expert on this matter but the last gun I would have taken with me for wild boar would be the Safir. Not that it cannot get the job done with an expert shooter but generally the tiny payload of .410 I think is considerably insufficient for that purpose.


This is why such a caliber with AR was never attempted in the US. It is much more logical and cheaper to buy the real McCoy . It does make sense though in Turkey and in the European countries governed by oligarchies, as generally one cannot legally obtain a semiautomatic AR-15, so customers are prepared to pay the premium.
I think that a US equivalent, provided a source for the barrels could be found, is not that hard to be made. Judging from the fact that all the Safirís were sold like hot cakes in Europe, it should be a financially feasible enterprise also.
My 2c
Joe Blasco

Edited by Joe Blasco, 20 December 2007 - 08:20 AM.

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#2 BobAsh

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 09:50 AM

Interesting! Thank you.
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#3 Twinsen

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 10:28 AM

That's expensive, thanks for the info.
I might end up being around a lot more.
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#4 bl4ckd0g

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 08:33 PM

Sounds like one can be fabricated in the U.S. for a kit build. Would be one hell of a rabbit gun.

#5 Aethelbert

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Posted 20 December 2007 - 10:38 PM

Wow! I like! Now, if I wanted a tricked out (as in military looking) this would be one to really consider. Wouldn't get one, though, even if I could afford one -- if the local constabulary saw me come out of the house with one of those I figger eventually one of them would be laying across the hood of his squad car with his weapon drawn and aimed and already called in for backup!

Went to one of the sites that advertise them. True -- they only digest the shorter, standard .410 round but they are claiming 700 meters per second. Folks, that's over 2200 fps! Anyone out there believe that?

Me? I'll stick with my subtly modified S-410. No, it ain't sexy. Still looks like a hunting weapon but it's accurate, very accurate. And even with the mods, it didn't cost any 1200 Euros! Yup. The Safir T-14 would be possibly quicker to get on target and maybe easier to hold on target during rapid fire (both because of the lighter weight and the M-16 pistol grip but I am happy with my S-410.

#6 Cobra's Custom LLC

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 08:27 AM

COOL Joe thanks for the write up. Neat weapon! Probably the only one I'll ever see but thanks for sharing.

Now ya got me thinking about modding M-16 mags for use in the S-410 :smoke: hmmmmmmm
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#7 onanon

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Posted 21 December 2007 - 03:03 PM

Thanks for posting this. I had heard about those but never looked into it. Pretty neat...

#8 BANDIDO

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 07:59 PM

HI, ANYBODY CONVERTED ANY M16 MAGS YET FELLOWS ?

#9 Psee

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 08:09 PM

Nice review and great photos, thanks!

#10 suatyilmaz

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Posted 12 December 2008 - 04:15 PM

Yes Okey :)
Safir's made in Turkey...
Thanks Joe Blasco

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Edited by suatyilmaz, 13 December 2008 - 04:09 AM.


#11 6x6pinz

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 07:34 PM

well I turned over 1500 rounds on my Safir T14 today. While at the range, turning lots of heads, I managed to shoot 48 out of 50 birds using remington 8shot nitro clay rounds. I was at the rifle range with slugs first, still need work on sighting the slugs in. I was using winchester 1/5 ounce slugs and with limited experience shooting AR style rifles was able to get decent groupings at 50yds but nothing special. The gun itself worked perfectly but the front sight which is held in place by an allen screw came loose enough to allow the plastic pieces to snap apart a bit. An easy fix with the allen wrench provided. I don't know if I did not get it tight enough after cleaning or if this is something that is going to be an issue. I am still very impressed with the ease at which I can acquire a target with it although it does take longer than conventional shotgun sights.
Begining to feel sorry for the doves.

#12 6x6pinz

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:15 PM

Went to the range again today. I was thinking about the pellet pattern the Safir puts out. I should have taken my S410 for comparison but did not think of it till I was already there.
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#13 Joe Blasco

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 01:26 PM

well I turned over 1500 rounds on my Safir T14 today. While at the range, turning lots of heads, I managed to shoot 48 out of 50 birds using remington 8shot nitro clay rounds. I was at the rifle range with slugs first, still need work on sighting the slugs in. I was using winchester 1/5 ounce slugs and with limited experience shooting AR style rifles was able to get decent groupings at 50yds but nothing special. The gun itself worked perfectly but the front sight which is held in place by an allen screw came loose enough to allow the plastic pieces to snap apart a bit. An easy fix with the allen wrench provided. I don't know if I did not get it tight enough after cleaning or if this is something that is going to be an issue. I am still very impressed with the ease at which I can acquire a target with it although it does take longer than conventional shotgun sights.
Begining to feel sorry for the doves.


Hi glad that you liked your T 14.
As I wrote in my presentation one and a half year ago, T 14 does not really make any sense in terms of ballistics or finance. It's just for people who live in Turkey or some other banana country where fundamental freedoms are not enjoyed. I noticed your magazine, probably a five rounder I guess, now Safir offers a 15 rounder made out of plastic with reinforcing ribs along the sides. How much did you buy your T 14 ? In Europe they go for 1100-1200E, an AR 15 clone in .223 goes for around 1800-2000 E ridiculous prices!

#14 6x6pinz

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Posted 12 April 2009 - 04:39 PM

well I turned over 1500 rounds on my Safir T14 today. While at the range, turning lots of heads, I managed to shoot 48 out of 50 birds using remington 8shot nitro clay rounds. I was at the rifle range with slugs first, still need work on sighting the slugs in. I was using winchester 1/5 ounce slugs and with limited experience shooting AR style rifles was able to get decent groupings at 50yds but nothing special. The gun itself worked perfectly but the front sight which is held in place by an allen screw came loose enough to allow the plastic pieces to snap apart a bit. An easy fix with the allen wrench provided. I don't know if I did not get it tight enough after cleaning or if this is something that is going to be an issue. I am still very impressed with the ease at which I can acquire a target with it although it does take longer than conventional shotgun sights.
Begining to feel sorry for the doves.


Hi glad that you liked your T 14.
As I wrote in my presentation one and a half year ago, T 14 does not really make any sense in terms of ballistics or finance. It's just for people who live in Turkey or some other banana country where fundamental freedoms are not enjoyed. I noticed your magazine, probably a five rounder I guess, now Safir offers a 15 rounder made out of plastic with reinforcing ribs along the sides. How much did you buy your T 14 ? In Europe they go for 1100-1200E, an AR 15 clone in .223 goes for around 1800-2000 E ridiculous prices!



By the time I paid shipping and transfer fees the total cost was $1K, about average for a specialty AR in my area of the world. I have been waiting patiently for the 15 or even 10 round magazines to show up here. I keep contacting ATI about availability and they are still waiting for them to arrive. The expected date is now mid May. I am now well over the 2000 round mark with my T14 and still no real signs of problems. The only noticeable issue was the front sight. I put a small detent for the sight screw to lock into so that resighting is not necessary after each cleaning. Several of my friends that have shot skeet with my Safir are now in the market for one. I am still waiting to see the game wardens face when bird season comes around, should be worth every penny I paid for the shotgun.
One of the toughest things about the T14 so far is keeping it away from my wife. She likes the lightweight frame and ease to shoot, even more than my Saiga 410. I am talking to a machinist friend of mine about spinning up a choke for it that looks similar to the flash suppressor, would be nice to have at least a modified choke if not full choke. If polychoke ever gets their 410 choke system to work properly maybe a poly for the Saiga and the Safir would be in order.

#15 Joe Blasco

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 02:23 AM

Well the front sight is borrowed I think from some air soft gun as it is just plastic, not steel reinforced inside, no aluminum. The two protruding lips can break off very easily, as they did in one of the guns I was testing. Good thing is one can buy a chinese air soft spare and put it in place ! The gun is not gas assisted as the real AR -15 so it doesn't really matter. I have to say that the bolt, using a AR 15 carrier, is rather heavy for the plain .410. That is the cause of the malfunctions with the Safir. I m surprised you didn't have any. In hot weather T 14 behaves flawlessly but in the cold, volume of the expanding gases is less which causes several malfunctions. To be honest I never tried the gun with anything but slugs. Since the subjects in Turkey cannot legally own a rifled weapon, another Turkish company is experimenting with a 12gauge AR-15 type prototype. However to my point of understanding mechanism differs considerably from an AR 15.

#16 6x6pinz

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Posted 13 April 2009 - 10:46 PM

I am begining to think that the warmer/dryer climate here is a big advantage to the shooting sports. Neither I or my friends seem to have the problems with cetain types of firearms that others just don't seem to be able to get to work.
I am not as big a fan of the 12 gauge so more than likely would pass on an AR variant in 12gauge. The curiosity of the Safir T14 just seem to strike my fancy. I have been pleasantly surprised with its performance and hopefully will be able to come up with a choke for it. Oh yeah and some mags that hold a few more rounds would be nice.

#17 PEKI

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 09:24 AM

Hallo so this is mine T-14, meanwhile only satisfaction.

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#18 SN13

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 08:12 AM

Welcome and nice shotgun.
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#19 Tacticool

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Posted 09 July 2009 - 02:59 PM

COOL Joe thanks for the write up. Neat weapon! Probably the only one I'll ever see but thanks for sharing.

Now ya got me thinking about modding M-16 mags for use in the S-410 :smoke: hmmmmmmm



Hmm. An MSA magwell and a Bushmaster .450 follower... Diameter is almost the same...

#20 druid318

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Posted 31 July 2009 - 11:02 AM

Might be common knowledge by now, but I figured I would spill the beans here anyway...

The Safir upper is being sold here in the US now. I ran across them on AIM surplus today for 499.

http://www.aimsurplu...Assemblies.html




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