Thatguy331 0 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 My day job is a mechanical engineer. I'm thinking of designing up a cheap muzzle break for the Saiga-12 since I can't see spending $100 on some fancy muzzle break and the CHAOS muzzle break has holes all around, which really doesn't do much as a muzzle break... The only way to make these cost effective would be to design it myself (easy to do) and find a fab shop to pump out a run of at least 200 or so... Would anyone currently in possession of a Saiga-12 muzzle break mind giving me some measurements off it? I'd like to know the following.. Type of Muzzle Break: Overall length: Inside Diameter: Outside Diameter: Length of Internal Threading: I do know that the threading is M22 X .75 If anyone has a few minutes, I'd really appreciate that info to get me started... I'm thinking of something pretty simple, like an 7000-series aluminum tube with 3 rows of holes (vertical up and 45 degrees to each side) and either anodized or painted. Simple = cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skiboatsp 111 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 My day job is a mechanical engineer. I'm thinking of designing up a cheap muzzle break for the Saiga-12 since I can't see spending $100 on some fancy muzzle break and the CHAOS muzzle break has holes all around, which really doesn't do much as a muzzle break... The only way to make these cost effective would be to design it myself (easy to do) and find a fab shop to pump out a run of at least 200 or so... Would anyone currently in possession of a Saiga-12 muzzle break mind giving me some measurements off it? I'd like to know the following.. Type of Muzzle Break: Overall length: Inside Diameter: Outside Diameter: Length of Internal Threading: I do know that the threading is M22 X .75 If anyone has a few minutes, I'd really appreciate that info to get me started... I'm thinking of something pretty simple, like an 7000-series aluminum tube with 3 rows of holes (vertical up and 45 degrees to each side) and either anodized or painted. Simple = cheap. barrel threads are not timed? you would have to include a locking nut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Why not take the Chaos break, screw it on all of the way, mark the bottom holes, have them welded and ground smooth, and then repaint? Sounds easier than designing a whole new break to me My day job is a mechanical engineer. I'm thinking of designing up a cheap muzzle break for the Saiga-12 since I can't see spending $100 on some fancy muzzle break and the CHAOS muzzle break has holes all around, which really doesn't do much as a muzzle break... The only way to make these cost effective would be to design it myself (easy to do) and find a fab shop to pump out a run of at least 200 or so... Would anyone currently in possession of a Saiga-12 muzzle break mind giving me some measurements off it? I'd like to know the following.. Type of Muzzle Break: Overall length: Inside Diameter: Outside Diameter: Length of Internal Threading: I do know that the threading is M22 X .75 If anyone has a few minutes, I'd really appreciate that info to get me started... I'm thinking of something pretty simple, like an 7000-series aluminum tube with 3 rows of holes (vertical up and 45 degrees to each side) and either anodized or painted. Simple = cheap. barrel threads are not timed? you would have to include a locking nut Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Damn, the man wants to take a shot at designing a cheap effective muzzle brake and you guys shoot him down. Thatguy331 send me a PM with your eMail address and I will send you some ideas and research. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
waltham_41 52 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Damn, the man wants to take a shot at designing a cheap effective muzzle brake and you guys shoot him down. Thatguy331 send me a PM with your eMail address and I will send you some ideas and research. Not trying to shoot him down, just suggesting a quicker fix to his dilema. Then he can spend the time he would have spent in design and research outside shooting his shotgun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sKott 26 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 My day job is a mechanical engineer. I'm thinking of designing up a cheap muzzle break for the Saiga-12 since I can't see spending $100 on some fancy muzzle break and the CHAOS muzzle break has holes all around, which really doesn't do much as a muzzle break... The only way to make these cost effective would be to design it myself (easy to do) and find a fab shop to pump out a run of at least 200 or so... Would anyone currently in possession of a Saiga-12 muzzle break mind giving me some measurements off it? I'd like to know the following.. Type of Muzzle Break: Overall length: Inside Diameter: Outside Diameter: Length of Internal Threading: I do know that the threading is M22 X .75 If anyone has a few minutes, I'd really appreciate that info to get me started... I'm thinking of something pretty simple, like an 7000-series aluminum tube with 3 rows of holes (vertical up and 45 degrees to each side) and either anodized or painted. Simple = cheap. I have one like this at the house. Let me know if that's the type you need the measurements on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thatguy331 0 Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I have one like this at the house. Let me know if that's the type you need the measurements on. That would work fine, just trying to get a feel on the rough dimensions of them. Also, who makes that particular flash suppressor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Snoopdogg 0 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I'm confused. Doesn't 'designing' mean 'to design'? Then why do you need all the specs and advice? Thats copying, not designing. All you need is your gun and a dial caliper and your brain. Now get to work Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmacken37 4 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Boy...we've got someone willing to do a lot of work and we're ripping him. Crazy in my book. Thanks for thinking of this and I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Jake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 The one that sKott posted is the one that will be available from Tromix in a couple of weeks. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuffetDestroyer 969 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I am all for someone designing a new one! Thatguy331, if you want me to loan you the Izhmash one like in the picture, PM me. I think it would be great to have more options for all of us! What I would love to see is a break like the JP Enterprises or the Barrett .50's (especially if it had mean and evil teeth on the end - the best of both worlds). I think our IPSC guy from Hawaii has done a few like that on competition conversions. But even the Tromix break is mainly for looks and not really functional from a recoil and muzzle jump standpoint. My perspective is that if a brake for shooting slugs can tame 50% (or so) of the recoil of what it is now, I would buy one! With birdshot, I can rapid fire all day. With slugs (even with my flash hider or shark break), I have to take it slow and have my fill after about 15 rounds. I am shocked at how little support there is for this guys! If this was another 8 round magazine, would you be discouraging someone's ingenuity to make a cheap and quickly available product? And who doesn't want another cheap 922r Compliance part? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sKott 26 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I have one like this at the house. Let me know if that's the type you need the measurements on. That would work fine, just trying to get a feel on the rough dimensions of them. Also, who makes that particular flash suppressor? That's a Factory Izhmash Flash Hider. I'll send you the measurements tonight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
confederateduck 1 Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 I like think somthing amd style would be cool, or maybe just somthing simple with some slots in the top. I just want somthing cheap to put on that muzzle! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BUFF_dragon 3 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 I have one like this at the house. Let me know if that's the type you need the measurements on. That would work fine, just trying to get a feel on the rough dimensions of them. Also, who makes that particular flash suppressor? That's a Factory Izhmash Flash Hider. I'll send you the measurements tonight. can you please send those measurements to me too... and to the person who said that getting dimensions was copying..... you're wrong, its part of design, you research what is out there and what already sorta works, and you REFINE it so that it is cheaper/better/easier than what is already out there, it gives you a rough idea of where to start so that you can customize what you like..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Thatguy331 0 Posted February 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 I'm confused.Doesn't 'designing' mean 'to design'? Then why do you need all the specs and advice? Thats copying, not designing. All you need is your gun and a dial caliper and your brain. Now get to work lol, why re-design the wheel when its already there? I just need some sample measurements since I don't have a muzzle break handy... and I have zero experience in muzzle break design... I know the pros probably crank out hundreds of prototypes and test them on a rig to measure the effectiveness of the design. Yeah, I'm not going to go that far, The most I can see me doing is giving a drawing to a local fab shop, have them make 1, test it out, make a change or two, then do a run of 100 or so. So if anyone has any info for me, it would be appreciated! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Yeah, I'm not going to go that far, The most I can see me doing is giving a drawing to a local fab shop, have them make 1, test it out, make a change or two, then do a run of 100 or so. So if anyone has any info for me, it would be appreciated! Those sweet Ak muzzle breaks with the Inverted cones look like something from starwars. My fav is the top vented with integral front sights,...thread on or compression fitting it gets me going, I am a designer too, however tractirs and such don't really relate to russian guns that weel, I just know what I like, and if it works well,.., that's the fun of it,.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BUFF_dragon 3 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 is this what yuo're thinkin with a barret style brake?? just a little somethin I threw together, I'm talking with my machinist friend on how to make them..... no promises, but I'm tryin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
325time 1 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 is this what yuo're thinkin with a barret style brake?? just a little somethin I threw together, I'm talking with my machinist friend on how to make them..... no promises, but I'm tryin Damn that's cool! Could you modify a factory muzzle extension to function as a muzzle brake? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BUFF_dragon 3 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 possibly, but I'm lookin into options right now to get this on the road...... once I can get somethin to finance further ideas..... I'm getting really excited, OMG this might actually happen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sKott 26 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 My day job is a mechanical engineer. I'm thinking of designing up a cheap muzzle break for the Saiga-12 since I can't see spending $100 on some fancy muzzle break and the CHAOS muzzle break has holes all around, which really doesn't do much as a muzzle break... The only way to make these cost effective would be to design it myself (easy to do) and find a fab shop to pump out a run of at least 200 or so... Would anyone currently in possession of a Saiga-12 muzzle break mind giving me some measurements off it? I'd like to know the following.. Type of Muzzle Break: Overall length: Inside Diameter: Outside Diameter: Length of Internal Threading: I do know that the threading is M22 X .75 If anyone has a few minutes, I'd really appreciate that info to get me started... I'm thinking of something pretty simple, like an 7000-series aluminum tube with 3 rows of holes (vertical up and 45 degrees to each side) and either anodized or painted. Simple = cheap. Type of Muzzle Break: Russian Izhmash Flash Hider Overall length: 2-19/32" (66mm) Inside Diameter: 3/4" (19mm) Outside Diameter: 1-1/32" (26mm) Length of Internal Threading: Now comes the interesting part.... The threads are 3/8" long then there is about 1/8" of recessed area the a ring then another recessed area that goes another 1/8" then the ID ID of 19mm. - Sorry I do not have the proper calipers to get the ID of all of the internal stuff. Hope this helps a little sKott Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 I applaud you for taking on this project. There are a few well known examples of S-12 brakes and hiders, some originals by our forum members, some from Izhmash, and some knockoffs. Here is something I put together for one of our members in Bulgaria so that he could make his own FH just exactly like the original Izzy one the he cannot buy over there. He made one for himself and sent me one for helping him with the dimensions. Holding it next to my factory one it was very hard to tell the difference! Great job Svilen! Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Here's a cool design for a brake that a friend of mine has on his 12-C. Neither of us knows where it originated, it was permanently attached when he bought the Saiga. I would like to have something like this. If you want to make something like that, or similar, I can help with the dimensions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 (edited) Here's a couple of pics I just took of the factory FH and a factory choke showing the threads. These are pretty much like the other one sKott posted...measurements should be close. Measured with calipers, the ID of the threads is .838". The depth of the threads meauring from the base is .450". The step ends at .869". Feel free to PM me for any more measurements you need. I have several brakes and hiders to measure or comparisons. Good luck with the aluminum, I hope it holds up to punishment. Isn't aluminum just as high as steel right now anyway? I guess milling it would be easier though. Edited February 9, 2008 by Cobra 76 two Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 Here is an observation for you, I have seen a bunch of guys show up at competitions with various breaks on guns, and find that what they really need is choke so if you want to make something that will sell reasonably priced chokes for the Saiga maybe bling them a bit with a muzzle brake look. Good luck with what ever you decide to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rock 1 Posted February 9, 2008 Report Share Posted February 9, 2008 This is great,Info you need to put any holes or slits going back at a 30deg angle going back and holes on top to keep the muzzle down Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BUFF_dragon 3 Posted February 12, 2008 Report Share Posted February 12, 2008 Can anyone get me some pics of how the polychoke works??? like pics and measurements of how it comes apart, or the peices seperate?? if anyone around Central KY has one that I could borrow for a few hours that would be AWESOME as well I have some 7075 aluminum on the way, hopefully I'll have some info in a few weeks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) Here is an observation for you, I have seen a bunch of guys show up at competitions with various breaks on guns, and find that what they really need is choke so if you want to make something that will sell reasonably priced chokes for the Saiga maybe bling them a bit with a muzzle brake look. Good luck with what ever you decide to do. Hmm the man is right, muzzle brakes dont work in low pressure guns at all, port barrel and poly in the end of the barrel or a true glow like the poly will work great in a shotgun. But if is for looks you can install anything in the end of any gun. My 2 cents. Edited February 13, 2008 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 This is the only place I have ever seen my life that pushes chokes for buckshot. Unless I am missing the point and you guys are shooting birdshot in competition. I admittedly know very little know little about shotgun competition. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted February 13, 2008 Report Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) This is the only place I have ever seen my life that pushes chokes for buckshot. Unless I am missing the point and you guys are shooting birdshot in competition. I admittedly know very little know little about shotgun competition. yea man, they use bird shot, on the poly you set it up on cylinder or wide open if you want to use buck . I have use Cyl, Imp cyl and modifide on buck but not on a poly choke, but other shotguns for pigs ( wild board). Edited February 13, 2008 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted February 14, 2008 Report Share Posted February 14, 2008 Azrial, Yep in competition normally we use bird shot because it will get the job done at a low cost. I really dont shoot much buck shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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