Oldone3 0 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 I think ya got it Hunter, moisture is the real culprit for ammo. If ya seal it airtight yer water tight too. Besides, ya can use the vacuum sealer for longer term food storage too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted March 22, 2008 Report Share Posted March 22, 2008 Vacuum seal is a great idea, but for outer container there must be considerable mechanical strength and dimensional stability, There will be concsiderable weight on it and earth is a "plastic" medium. We think of solid earth but is undergoes a surprising amount of motion. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted March 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 True,and the GI can or plastic bucket serves as a better barrier to vermin like mice.Ammo can would be best against teeth, thus the vacuum sealed bags are the "inny" bags.I think multiple barriers are the only way to go. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5 Posted March 23, 2008 Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 A couple of years ago I did an experiment with an M44, a PVC tube (sealed on both ends), and two large "gun safe" type of remington desicant bags. First I warmed up the rifle to about 150 in the kitchen oven with the door open. Then I packed things up in my basement room that always has the dehumidifier running all year long (usually without a drop caught in the basin, but I've had too many basement water problems to not pay for the extra electricity involved). In went the gun, a couple hundred rounds of ammo, and a desicant bag on each end. Sealed up both ends with PVC cement and caps. Buried it two feet deep in the yard and unearthed after two years (with air temps between -45 and 98 degrees over the time). When I sawed apart the PVC, it sucked in air as soon as it cracked open. Everything looked good. All of the above caused me to believe that if you can create a dry environment and a vaccum vs the outside atmosphere, you'll have success. Ammo cans really don't enter into that sort of equation with their leaky gaskets other than to be something that you can carry the ammo in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted March 23, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2008 (edited) Wow!Great experiment!Scientific method at work!Anybody else have any interesting cache experiments? Any prepping done to the ammo or gun?Did they have their own separate bags,gun greased?? Edited March 23, 2008 by THE_HUNTER Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckandaquarterquarterstaff 5 Posted March 24, 2008 Report Share Posted March 24, 2008 Wow!Great experiment!Scientific method at work!Anybody else have any interesting cache experiments? Any prepping done to the ammo or gun?Did they have their own separate bags,gun greased?? Nope, just tossed them in the same way they'd have gone into the safe... I figured I either had a good method, a basket case gun for a project, or a pile of rust. Fortunately, it was the first when it came back out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted March 25, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2008 Nice!Great info! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 I use metal ammo cans for all my ammo..biggest reason is in case theres a fire,the rounds would be contained when they started poping off. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UnidenStew 1 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 (edited) Recently I purchased a couple cans of Greek mil surp 30-06 from ammo to go. The date of manufacture for this lot is stamped on the case head 78 i.e. 1978. The stuff is fine. You just have seal the can good, add some dissicant and keep it cool and dry as much as possible. The best way I suppose is with the PVC pipe, however, if you need to get your ammo in a hurry, or you have it buried under frozen ground, what are you going to do then? You will need a tool to open the PVC, and if you had to bug out in a hurry, rest assured you are not going to think to bring your hack saw with you with Zombies hot on your heels as you flee out of town. The best way would be to bury your stash in the side of a steep embankment or hillside. Cover the hole with rocks and other debris. Use the surroundings as a guide and camouflage to suit. Take your time with this. Add some spare clothing, med supplies, a tent, food, instant coffee etc.. to your stash. Just think what you might need and go do it. Make it so that you can get to it no matter what time of year it is, yet undetected and protected from the outside elements. You could always take some roofing sealer, or tar to coat any tool you might need to access the stash sight and hide it in the trunk of a nearby fallen tree or other easy to get to location. Have a back up plan, and several caches so that in case your direction of bug out in one direction is blocked, you've got another identical in the other direction. Don't skimp on the spare clothes, and food. Add some canned goods, and dehydrated foods to last for several weeks. Get a water purification pump and mess kits. Add a cheap 22 for small game like squirrels, rabbits, ducks and geese. A few suggestions are a Marlin Papoose. http://www.impactguns.com/store/026495077204.html Or my favorite. Stevens take down model: http://www.savagearms.com/30gtd.htm Edited March 30, 2008 by MacMan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted March 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 I had an aweful time with reliability with the Marlin Papoose like listed.I just bought a Belgium Browning take down .22 rifle,mint,from 1965 with the box but would hate to bury that!My Taurus pump guns in .22 would be better or my Springfield M6.Great idea about the hillside but make sure it never floods in that area and watch erosion that could uncover or wash away the cache.I agree .22 is the best as a cache gun,and .22mag even better,though ammo is more expensive and harder than find,say,in an old cabin somewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UnidenStew 1 Posted March 30, 2008 Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I had an aweful time with reliability with the Marlin Papoose like listed.I just bought a Belgium Browning take down .22 rifle,mint,from 1965 with the box but would hate to bury that!My Taurus pump guns in .22 would be better or my Springfield M6.Great idea about the hillside but make sure it never floods in that area and watch erosion that could uncover or wash away the cache.I agree .22 is the best as a cache gun,and .22mag even better,though ammo is more expensive and harder than find,say,in an old cabin somewhere. I'd not go with a 22 mag because it's to loud. The whole purpose of a bug out stash is to remain undetected, yet flourish like the Whitetail deer do in urban/suburban environments. If you have a 22 that can shoot shorts, that's even better. They are real quite. Another inexpensive 22 stash gun to consider is the Henry H001 lever gun. Short, accurate, and reliable. Shoots shorts, longs, and LR and is light weight. You can get a peep sight to mount on it and you'll love it once you start shooting it. Buttery smooth action. 22 shorts are real good for food procurement. I can't stress that enough. It's quite, but effective on squirrels, rabbits, and other edible game. Stealth is the key. You do not want to attract the attention of FEMA goons or other hostiles from other renegade government agencies. If they detect a shot in the distance, they will come to investigate. If you are lucky, they will kill you quick. If they capture you, you will be taken to one of the 800 extermination camps built by Halburton/Bushco Cheney and company. Nor do you want to attract the attention of other, less intelligent people that did not have your foresight to prepare for such an emergency. They will want your stuff, or at the very least rat you out to the local commissar for a bowl of soup. I highly recommend Ragnar Benson's book "Survival Poaching." He's written some real duds, but this one is one of his best. If my memory serves me correctly he offers suggestions on caching techniques as well as a plethora of techniques for acquiring fish and game without firing a shot. Many traps and techniques with pictures are discussed. You can't go hungry if you can master just a few of the techniques in this book. The beauty of of these time tested traps and techniques is that they work 24/7 saving you the risk of unnecessary daytime movement that might alert others to your illegal presence during martial law. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted March 30, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2008 I'll have to pick up that book.True about the noise.Even quieter are CCI CB's and Super Colibri rounds.The CB's you only hear a click of the firing pin and the impact of the bullet in a rifle.For Colibris in my 2 Stevens tip up pistols,they sound like BB guns and can knock out small birds,etc. with ease.Colibris fire so slow you should not use them in long barrels as they might get stuck within.I would say a sound suppressor for a .22 would be even better but then you are on the Gov.'s radar.....22mag though is the choice of many deer poachers and can be alot more potent,but then again.....noise.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted April 4, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2008 Just thought I would mention kittie liter has silica gel in it and can be used as desiccant also.Cheap fix and under the radar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UnidenStew 1 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Just thought I would mention kittie liter has silica gel in it and can be used as desiccant also.Cheap fix and under the radar. Really? Huh, didn't know that. If this is true (and I have no reason to doubt you) you just saved me a bundle. Ordering online cost twice as much as the product due to HAZMAT fees. Cool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted April 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 Yep,dries up cat pee and your guns too!Gotta love that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 9, 2008 Report Share Posted April 9, 2008 If they detect a shot in the distance, they will come to investigate. If you are lucky, they will kill you quick. If they capture you, you will be taken to one of the 800 extermination camps built by Halburton/Bushco Cheney and company. Which one of those is the one UNDER Denver International Airport? ever read about the miles of bunkers and tunnels under that airport? Thats one to make ya wonder.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted April 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Wow,never heard of it.I'm sure many secret installations are under many public areas without us knowing.Makes you think.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 here check some of it out... you can google it, and more should come up... http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/Denver_Airport.html or here... http://www.geocities.com/Baja/5692/ what I DO find odd... is that I have seen the pictures they reference YEARS AGO... and they were AS THEY DESCRIBED BEFORE UPDATING! They really were like they said they were and they really did CHANGE THEM... why?? very odd... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gtnichols 51 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) Because you saw 'em now! get back to work,... Edited April 11, 2008 by Gas Giant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted April 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 That's some bizarre stuff.Makes me think of "The Hive" in the zombie movies..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Just a thought = Take you'r old iron junk, camshafts, cylinder heads, pieces of steel / iron pipe cut into 3 - 4 foot pieces and bury them randomly around your property whenever you are digging something any way. Just in case anyone ever comes looking they should have SOMETHING to find! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 That's a very good idea!Also,a cache around an old abandoned farm would net the same results,all kinds of junk to hide the good stuff.My Great Uncle never had a garbage man,just dug BIG holes.Bet the new landowner has found surprises. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted April 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2008 I bought a small jar full of about 50 .22 shorts and 6 .22 long rifle that were vintage and heavily oxidized,coating even the inside of the jar for .75cents as an experiment at a fun show.All .22short were UMC and had 2 types of casings,meaning 2 different kinds.The .22LR were various,UMC,Winchester mostly if I recall.Eight of the shorts had the bullets wider than the case head and I believe it was due to more than just oxidation,possibly an original manufacturing error.Those went on the collection shell.Took all the rest out today with a vintage Savage Model 4C that was my grandfather's in which I inherited (bolt action,6 shot clip).The shorts cycled for the most part with no problem and they all shot very accurately and quietly out of that long barrel.Now I know why old timers have high regards for the lowly .22short.The long rifle,3 went off fine,2 had to be hit twice,meaning spinning the case to another part of the rim,and the only winchester,that had a steel type casing,did not fire after 2 hits.I have no idea how these were stored but the .22short could definitely be counted on even now if I had more.Not a long range load but good close squirrel head masher!Interesting experiment.I look forward to my next finds at the fun shows! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE_HUNTER 2 Posted May 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Seems we are not the only board that are interested in this subject. http://shtfmilitia.com/viewtopic.php?t=373...febd0ed4bc06d7a Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UnidenStew 1 Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Yeah, 411 man knows what he's talking about. He's a wealth of information on Frugals Forums. Some poo poo his postings, but they are usually proven wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UnidenStew 1 Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 Yeah, 411 man knows what he's talking about. He's a wealth of information on Frugals Forums. Some poo poo his postings, but they are usually proven wrong. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nuckinfuts 1 Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 Just my thoughts...how about a .22 cal pump pellet air rifle rather than a .22 firearm? Much more quiet and close to just as effective as a firearm for small game. And a guy could carry thousands of those pellets in your pocket. Interesting topic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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