mayday 0 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 I did a search and didnt really find too much on this specific topic. My first purchase of ammo for my Saiga was the Mil Classic 124 gn FMJ and had no issues and seemed consistant with accuracy. So I bought 240 rounds....one trip to the range and I need more....dang its fun to shoot. Anyway....so based on some of your experience....are there any advantages of one over the other. Price is certainly a big factor....but what about things like: Poly coated vs laqured ?? 122 gn vs 124 gn ?? Wolf obviously makes them different for some reason....and the price is about the same....so just trying to understand. Thanks Mayday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AgentLQ 3 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 You've pretty much got the differences right there, laquered tends to gum up weapons... or at least has the potential to... Then again, we are shooting AKs... so it probably does not matter. I just fiigure, that for the same price, I'd go with the Poly... for that lil smidge more of quality control. Military Classic... *shudder* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 the lacquered cases are supposedly more impervious to moisture for LONG TERM storage. If you want to hole up some wolf, for the SHTF/zombie situations, use the lacquered stuff... otherwise, just go black box and have a bang... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The-Beast 0 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) the local gun store was selling 100rds of wolf mil classic FMJ for 22 bucks... So for the price, go wolf mil classic... if you got a little extra to spend... go golden tiger. Edited April 10, 2008 by The-Beast Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbauch357 0 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 (edited) Buy in bulk and save yourself some money in the long run, I just yesterday received 2k rds of Golden Tiger 7.62x39 for $380 shipped to my door... 1,400 rds of that is going in my "rainy day" supply along with 4k rds of 22lr, 3k rds of 9mm, 700 rds of 30-06, 500 rds of .357 mag, and 300rds of 12-gauge... Soon as I have a bigger or additional safe I'll be looking to double those figures.... Edited April 10, 2008 by jbauch357 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chupacabrah 0 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 the local gun store was selling 100rds of wolf mil classic FMJ for 22 bucks... So for the price, go wolf mil classic... if you got a little extra to spend... go golden tiger. golden tiger is less expensive.... $5 less per 1000. Mil classic and Poly performance are the same price : $199/1000 I'd go with the golden tiger or Poly, and skip on the mil classic. With the mil classic you'll just have to clean your gun more Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elvis christ 451 Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Buy in bulk and save yourself some money in the long run, I just yesterday received 2k rds of Golden Tiger 7.62x39 for $380 shipped to my door... 1,400 rds of that is going in my "rainy day" supply along with 4k rds of 22lr, 3k rds of 9mm, 700 rds of 30-06, 500 rds of .357 mag, and 300rds of 12-gauge... Soon as I have a bigger or additional safe I'll be looking to double those figures.... That's a pretty decent deal. Where did you order that from, if you don't mind me asking? I'd like to pool some cash with some of my buddies and get in on that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mayday 0 Posted April 11, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 the local gun store was selling 100rds of wolf mil classic FMJ for 22 bucks... So for the price, go wolf mil classic... if you got a little extra to spend... go golden tiger. Golden Tiger...huh??......I found it at J&G Sales for $179 for 1000. Better than the Wolf I've found....so would most rate Golden Tiger a better choice??? Mayday Quote Link to post Share on other sites
UnidenStew 1 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 The difference I've found between the Mil Spec Classic, and the black box Wolf is that the Mil Spec is .311 dia, whereas the black box Wolf is .310. I get more consistency with Mil Spec than black box. I think that is due to better quality control for their Mil Spec ammo. The Russians are not going to short change their military. All ammo manufacturers are running at peak capacity and quality control suffers of consequence. The black box Wolf is the most inconsistent in my experience. I've had good results with Golden Tiger, Barnaul, and Brown Bear which are .310 dia also. My latest excursion to the range yielded a 6 shot group just over 2" at 80 yards with Golden Tiger. Another difference I've noticed between Wolf Mil Spec Classic HP and black box HP is the cavity on black box is deeper. However, It does not affect expansion any better. In fact, the Mil Spec out performs black box every time. Go to http://www.ammoman.com for Golden Tiger. Last I checked it was still $195 per 1000 shipped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 The poly coating tends to not cover the entire steel case so some of it is exposed. I will say that my opinion is that the WMclassic uses a better bullet than wolf black box. FMJ WMC is more acurrate and hollow points jacket are able to tear and open up/frag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mini14jac 1 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 (edited) You've pretty much got the differences right there, lacquered tends to gum up weapons... or at least has the potential to... Sorry, but that's just an Internet Urban Legend. Some people have reported stuck rounds in ARs, but I suspect they had tight chambers to start with. I've never seen a report of a "gummed chamber" in an AK. You may run into that shooting full auto, but again, I've never seen or heard of it in an AK. The lacquer has always been a non-issue. Especially in AKs. Wolf ammo was bashed for years by AR snobs until prices started creeping up. Now, you'll find a lot of AR shooters that swear by it. The Black Box .223 ammo has worked fine in a Bushmaster, a Model 1 Sales kit gun, and 3 Mini 14s. I've owned several AKs and never had an issue with it. However, Mil. Classic is supposed to be a little higher grade ammo. On AR15.com, it's been reported that the Mil. Classic hollow point will fragment consistently. Not true with the Black Box. I stocked up on MC fmj, but once I found my gun would feed the hp, I started watching for deals on it. For range/general use, buy whatever is cheaper. If you're buying for HD, and your gun feeds the MC jhp, it's the way to go. If you've got a gun that won't feed the hollow points, then either of the Wolf offerings should be fine. Edited April 11, 2008 by mini14jac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 I have run wolf black box through my first AR15 for years... when I wanted to make noise or plink... If I needed to actually hit something, I had to use reloads, or sometimes winchester white box would get me close enough... If I was getting 1" groups at 100 yards with winchester I could always and I mean ALWAYS count on wolf black box to give me 4" groups consistently out of my AR15... it DID NOT LIKE WOLF ONE BIT... yes, I said FOUR INCH GROUPS.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbauch357 0 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 I just yesterday received 2k rds of Golden Tiger 7.62x39 for $380 shipped to my door... That's a pretty decent deal. Where did you order that from, if you don't mind me asking? I'd like to pool some cash with some of my buddies and get in on that. ammoman.com - no tax and no shipping charges, the price they list is what you pay to your door... I've seen ammo cheaper initially on a bunch of other sites, but soon as they tack on tax and/or shipping it's way more... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Threecard 15 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 I've been buying Brown Bear SP for some time now for my SHTF supply. According to some research I've done, others report getting as good if not better accuracy from it as compared to golden Tiger and both Wolf variants. And the price is comparable. I haven't tried Golden Tiger yet. I also haven't been able to find it in other than FMJ. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wally 2 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 your Ak or saiga isnt a $3000 sniper rifle to start with,if you can keep all of your rounds on a paper plate at a 100 yards thats fine,I shoot my AKs and saiga BETTER with irons at a 100 yards than my AR,another words buy all the ammo you can aford and dont max out your plastic to do it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbauch357 0 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 I've been buying Brown Bear SP for some time now for my SHTF supply. According to some research I've done, others report getting as good if not better accuracy from it as compared to golden Tiger and both Wolf variants. And the price is comparable. I haven't tried Golden Tiger yet. I also haven't been able to find it in other than FMJ. I have stayed away from brown bear since the ass-end of the casing ripped off leaving the rest of the casing in the chamber of my 30-06. Thanks to that experience I've not tried any more of their ammo, and still have ~100 rds of the 30-06 sitting in my safe that I'm not really excited about shooting. ammoman.com has the wolf in both mil classic and black-box JHP too - but only FMJ in the Golden Tiger... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CheepJerokee 0 Posted April 11, 2008 Report Share Posted April 11, 2008 the local gun store was selling 100rds of wolf mil classic FMJ for 22 bucks... So for the price, go wolf mil classic... if you got a little extra to spend... go golden tiger. Golden Tiger...huh??......I found it at J&G Sales for $179 for 1000. Better than the Wolf I've found....so would most rate Golden Tiger a better choice??? Mayday FYI.......................I ordered a stock for my kids Model 60 Marlin from J&G..........It took two weeks after they said it shipped and when I inquired about it they said "tough, we don't give out tracking numbers". A REALLY bad experience in all. I got the stock eventually......long after his b-day, but I wont do business with them again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elvis christ 451 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I just yesterday received 2k rds of Golden Tiger 7.62x39 for $380 shipped to my door... That's a pretty decent deal. Where did you order that from, if you don't mind me asking? I'd like to pool some cash with some of my buddies and get in on that. ammoman.com - no tax and no shipping charges, the price they list is what you pay to your door... I've seen ammo cheaper initially on a bunch of other sites, but soon as they tack on tax and/or shipping it's way more... Cool, good lookin out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Threecard 15 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 I've been buying Brown Bear SP for some time now for my SHTF supply. According to some research I've done, others report getting as good if not better accuracy from it as compared to golden Tiger and both Wolf variants. And the price is comparable. I haven't tried Golden Tiger yet. I also haven't been able to find it in other than FMJ. I have stayed away from brown bear since the ass-end of the casing ripped off leaving the rest of the casing in the chamber of my 30-06. Thanks to that experience I've not tried any more of their ammo, and still have ~100 rds of the 30-06 sitting in my safe that I'm not really excited about shooting. ammoman.com has the wolf in both mil classic and black-box JHP too - but only FMJ in the Golden Tiger... Well, that's not good. Maybe I should reconsider my SHTF round as I really don't want that happening when the SHsTF. Anyone else have Brown Bear comments? Thanks everyone! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
photohause 0 Posted April 12, 2008 Report Share Posted April 12, 2008 ammoman.com - pay no shipping, best prices. That's no shipping on 38lbs for 1k rounds! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Willie D 2 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Supposedly the only time you need to worry about laquered ammo is when you switch from steel case to brass when shooting. The melted laquer in the chamber causes brass cases, which expand more than steel, to get stuck. Box O Truth said they could repeat this malfunction on their ARs when they tried it. Military Classic comes from a different factory than the Poly Performance stuff. I've never had a real problem with either but on occasion I have noticed the black box stuff sounding different from shot to shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 (edited) I've shot nothing but lac'd up romanian ball, not a single problem and not any cleaning issues, but thats also b/c rounds never sit in a hot gun =D just shoot off all your rounds using the cheap stuff, also "reports" of the poly coated rounds melting in a hot chamber, but even if thats true, just shoot them off and don't let them sit in there PS: Hot shot ammo, the stuff thats been sealed up in a can...shoots great, about 1 flyaway per 40 rounds, which isn't bad considering i paid 128 for 700 rounds in a sealed tin.... Edited April 14, 2008 by Vultite Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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