DavePAL84 1 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Okay, I have a 19" barreled S-12 that used to be longer. When I shortened the barrel, of course I had cycling problems. So I opened up the gas ports and I could cycle reliably. It would take Nitro birdshot on gas setting 1 and regular el-cheapo on setting 2. Well, last week I go to the range and I'm having more problems (no longer cycling the nitro on setting 1). I clean her out, check the gas ports for plastic (I angled them properly and found nothing blocking them) and then I drilled a 4th gas port (mine only had three). Well I go to the range and test her out today and I still couldn't cycle the Nitro's on gas setting 1. This was concerning because I have a 3-gun on Sunday and a couple of the stages have birdshot and slugs in the same stage. So, I unscrewed the regulator and popped out the gas piston. I put some break-free on it and everything cycled perfectly on gas setting 1. My question is, is there a problem with lubing the piston? Or am I just setting myself up for twice the crud in the future? What about a dry lube like militec-1 or some graphite? Many thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
raymond5106 0 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Okay, I have a 19" barreled S-12 that used to be longer. When I shortened the barrel, of course I had cycling problems. So I opened up the gas ports and I could cycle reliably. It would take Nitro birdshot on gas setting 1 and regular el-cheapo on setting 2. Well, last week I go to the range and I'm having more problems (no longer cycling the nitro on setting 1). I clean her out, check the gas ports for plastic (I angled them properly and found nothing blocking them) and then I drilled a 4th gas port (mine only had three). Well I go to the range and test her out today and I still couldn't cycle the Nitro's on gas setting 1. This was concerning because I have a 3-gun on Sunday and a couple of the stages have birdshot and slugs in the same stage. So, I unscrewed the regulator and popped out the gas piston. I put some break-free on it and everything cycled perfectly on gas setting 1. My question is, is there a problem with lubing the piston? Or am I just setting myself up for twice the crud in the future? What about a dry lube like militec-1 or some graphite? Many thanks I'v always been told not to oil a gas piston. I think that a good cleaning inside the gas tube and the piston itself should do it. Also make sure after reassembly that the piston moves freely. point the barrel up and down and you should be able to hear it move inside the tube. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 I read somewhere that you were not suppose to lube it. I could be wrong. I had mine NP3 coated, seems to work great now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kellysguy 1 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 I could see maybe graffite, but that's just a band-aid. You've got a problem somewhere. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John_pro2a 3 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 IIRC if you oil in the gas tube is simply turns to carbon asap and then is very hard to clean. Maybe try cleaning with a brass brush? But I've read you're not supposed to do that either (not specifically with Saigas). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
random sylvester 0 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 You shouldnt need any lube in the gas system , try checking the size of all the holes compared to another of the same length (you should be able to find it on past threads) , nitros are pretty strong rounds to use , most factory saigas will run fine wether you cleaned it or not also look into shortening the gas block, alot of other short saigas have this done to them which may or maynot help , how short is it ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kellysguy 1 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Man, I guess I'm just lucky. My gun will cycle dry dog crap.......loaded in backwards !!!!!!!! I hate to see so many folks having problems with theirs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
random sylvester 0 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 also isnt the 19" barrell saiga suppose to have 4 holes from the factory and the 23" 3 hole like mine I havent touched mine and I cant stop it from working no matter what I do Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Do you get the "thunk" from the piston moving freely when you tilt the gun up or down? If not that is where we start trying to diagnose this Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted May 1, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Do you get the "thunk" from the piston moving freely when you tilt the gun up or down? If not that is where we start trying to diagnose this No, it doesn't. Seems to stay in place. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Ah...very very interesting.... I'd say then you need to clean the piston and the "chamber" in there more since there is some sort of buildup in there. I went after my piston with a brass brush and the chamber with a brass bore brush, tried not to use any lube at all, barely any Hoppes 9 to clean it. A trick I was using was taking a old part of cut up t-shirt and wedging it through the whole gas system from where the bolt carrier goes all the way out to the plug, back and forth that way. Made the patch real tight so i was actually using a dowel rod and hammer to get it through. YMMV, no expressed warranty and you'll get what you paid for Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wally 2 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 the same 12ga mop used to clean the barrel will fit in the gas chamber Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John_pro2a 3 Posted May 1, 2008 Report Share Posted May 1, 2008 Ah...very very interesting.... I'd say then you need to clean the piston and the "chamber" in there more since there is some sort of buildup in there. I went after my piston with a brass brush and the chamber with a brass bore brush, tried not to use any lube at all, barely any Hoppes 9 to clean it. A trick I was using was taking a old part of cut up t-shirt and wedging it through the whole gas system from where the bolt carrier goes all the way out to the plug, back and forth that way. Made the patch real tight so i was actually using a dowel rod and hammer to get it through. YMMV, no expressed warranty and you'll get what you paid for I bet this would work too http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu9_2.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rock 1 Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 I just use a Hoppes 12ga bore snake does a great job 2 swipes Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kellysguy 1 Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Mine doesn't "thunk" and it'll cycle primer caps!!! (well, no, not really) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted May 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 gave it a good cleaning, hit the piston with a wire wheel (shhhh!) and now it thunks great. Never noticed the gas venting in the side before. Huh. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Etek 32 Posted May 2, 2008 Report Share Posted May 2, 2008 Try a 3M 'Scotch-Brite' pad for cleaning. Use a good solvent like CLP. Look at the piston and tube very carefully for witness marks, dents or galling. Make POSITIVE the piston is not covering any part of the gas holes when the piece is in battery. If the hole(s) IS partially covered, the operating rod piston setting is incorrect, though this would be rare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted May 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I check the op rod, it was fine. So, had a 3-gun match today. I didn't finish a single stage without at least one FTE, even when I used gas setting #2. This was with the nitro stuff. WTF?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted May 5, 2008 Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 WTF?! ::scratches head:: AGP or Factory mag causing the FTE? Still no plastic in the ports? Gas regulator screw all the way in? Anything look screwy on the extractor or bolt face? Just running through ideas out loud.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted May 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 WTF?! ::scratches head:: AGP or Factory mag causing the FTE? Still no plastic in the ports? Gas regulator screw all the way in? Anything look screwy on the extractor or bolt face? Just running through ideas out loud.... I tried different magazines. I had problems except when shooting slugs. I'll double check the ports for plastic but I've never had that problem before... gas regulator was definitely screwed in all the way. I'll take a closer look at the extractor this afternoon. This is mind-boggling since my gun ran 100% until a couple weeks ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavePAL84 1 Posted May 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2008 I started a new thread in a more appropriate section. Thanks for all the input so far. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=25810 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ndomres 0 Posted May 8, 2008 Report Share Posted May 8, 2008 I just use a solvent to clean up my gas piston and tube. Just remember that most lubes are hydrocarbons, so when you add intense heat to the tube, the hydrogen reacts away, and the carbon stays. Your mileage may vary, but I keep my AK derivative gas tubes clean and dry as a bone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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