New coin

[nsa400 11]

I pulled this up from online. Please pass it along.

 

KT-Americans4America

 

 

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REFUSE NEW COINS

 

This simple action will make a strong statement. Just Do It.

 

Please help do this.. refuse to accept these when they are handed to you. I received one from the Post Office as change and I asked for a dollar bill instead. The lady just smiled and said 'way to go' so she had read this e-mail. Please help out...our world is in enough trouble without this too!!!!!

 

**U.S. Government to Release New Dollar Coins **

 

http://www.usmint.gov/

 

 

'IN GOD WE TRUST'

 

 

 

IS GONE!!!

 

If ever there was a reason to boycott something, THIS IS IT!!!!

 

DO NOT ACCEPT THE NEW DOLLAR COINS AS CHANGE

 

Together we can force them out of circulation.

 

 

 

 

 

Search News:

New Dollar Coins

 

Search the Web

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

Bogus.

 

It's on the edge.

[rd99fxdl 17]

That was out a long time ago,yes,it's on the edge

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/dollarcoin.asp

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

It is my opinion that the problem lies in the fact that "In God we trust" is missing from our lives, decisions, character, and morality rather than from our money or monuments. When a presidential candidate can talk about "the social gospel" and fool people into thinking that he is talking about Christ or God we are in trouble. I Timothy 4:1, "But the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons...". There is but one Gospel and that is the Gospel of Jesus who was crucified on our behalf to grant us access to the Father. There is no "social gospel". This is the equivalent of believing that Barack Hussein Obama is in favor of the 2nd Amendment.

1911

 

 

edit- for spelling errors

Edited May 13, 2008 by 1911

[righttoown 0]

It is my opinion that the problem lies in the fact that "In God we trust" is missing from our lives, decisions, character, and morality rather than from our money or monuments. When a presidential candidate can talk about "the social gospel" and fool people into thinking that he is talking about Christ or God we are in trouble. I Timothy 4:1, "But the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deeitful spirits and doctrines of demons...". There is but one Gospel and that is the Gospel of Jesus who was crucified on our behalf to grant us access to the Father. The is no "social gospel". This is the equivalent of beleiving that Barack Hussein Obama is in favor of the 2nd Amendment.

1911

Amen brother! could'nt have said any better.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Thank God it's not true.

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/dollarcoin.asp

[MrTuffPaws 2]

I find "In God We Trust" on money rather ironic, considering Jesus's teachings.

[uzitiger 193]

Actually the motto is on the coin edge where it used to be reeded. This is the same as removing the 'In G-d we Trust motto' while pretending not to remove it. Atheist scums. This country was established on the Judeo -Christian ethics and the leftist atheists want to take that out of the country. Some of the worst offenders are the ACLU who sue to remove the Ten Commandments from public buildings.

 

America was built on trust in G-d and that's why the nation became the most successful one in world history. This is why the Eurotrash are jealous even though it's their socialist mentality which impeded their success.

[Twinsen 86]

This must be the only thing I dissagree with you guys on.

 

I agree with just about every single Christian value, but I'm not going to church, giving money to a church, reading the bible, or EVER trusting my children alone in a church. Every organized religion scares me in their zealotry. If only there was a way to teach morals without the creepiness.

[Juggernaut 11,054]

Just know some of us are workin' real hard to eliminate the creepiness.

I'm all about toppling the ivory tower.

I DO understand your views on church. I do disagree with you on reading the scriptures.

Better to learn for yourself than have someone "Tell you" what the scriptures are saying.

 

Just my opinion.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

This must be the only thing I dissagree with you guys on.

 

I agree with just about every single Christian value, but I'm not going to church, giving money to a church, reading the bible, or EVER trusting my children alone in a church. Every organized religion scares me in their zealotry. If only there was a way to teach morals without the creepiness.

I disagree with your premise but offer the Boy Scouts of America as an alternative. They offer the morals without the salvation.

1911

[KrisFox 69]

This must be the only thing I dissagree with you guys on.

 

I agree with just about every single Christian value, but I'm not going to church, giving money to a church, reading the bible, or EVER trusting my children alone in a church. Every organized religion scares me in their zealotry. If only there was a way to teach morals without the creepiness.

I disagree with your premise but offer the Boy Scouts of America as an alternative. They offer the morals without the salvation.

1911

That is they used to. You should look into the current trends in the boy scouts.

[U.S. Pratorean 1,234]

This must be the only thing I dissagree with you guys on.

 

I agree with just about every single Christian value, but I'm not going to church, giving money to a church, reading the bible, or EVER trusting my children alone in a church. Every organized religion scares me in their zealotry. If only there was a way to teach morals without the creepiness.

I am not judging you nor am I attempting to offend or discredit you but your statement is contridictory, that is unless you are not Christian. Christ directs us to, go to church, tithe earnings, and most importantly read scripture and as someone else pointed out quite well, to read it youself instead of sombody telling you, possibly their interpretation of the Word. As with every institution alas, there lurks corruption but to be human is to sin and therein lies the struggle. Daily for me.

[RangerM9 1]

This must be the only thing I dissagree with you guys on.

 

I agree with just about every single Christian value, but I'm not going to church, giving money to a church, reading the bible, or EVER trusting my children alone in a church. Every organized religion scares me in their zealotry. If only there was a way to teach morals without the creepiness.

 

 

I'm with Twinsen on this one.....

 

i have to laugh as my wife and her family all consider me to be "better chirstian" than most people they have ever met (and they are pretty darn religious), yet, i am not religious, and really dislike organized religion...(not so much the thought of God, but the way it is run).....probably comes from being held against my will by a bunch of nuns and priests after a local church sponsored fair when i was a kid. Turned out that they felt that after me paying to buy tickets to play games and support their church they had the right to hold me in their church for few hours and try to convert me......surprised the priests didn't try to ass rape me.....To hell with them!!!!

 

I don't care what your beliefs are, you can be a good person and never go to church or read the bible, you can also go every day and carry the bible in one had while beating your wife and kids with the other.....

 

how you act is what matters, not what makes you act that way. if it is the bible and makes you a good person, well....great!....works for you!

 

and Twinsen...there is a way to teach morals without the creepy.....it is called good parenting....my parents pulled it off.....I hope to with my child as well.

[RangerM9 1]

This must be the only thing I dissagree with you guys on.

 

I agree with just about every single Christian value, but I'm not going to church, giving money to a church, reading the bible, or EVER trusting my children alone in a church. Every organized religion scares me in their zealotry. If only there was a way to teach morals without the creepiness.

I am not judging you nor am I attempting to offend or discredit you but your statement is contridictory, that is unless you are not Christian. Christ directs us to, go to church, tithe earnings, and most importantly read scripture and as someone else pointed out quite well, to read it youself instead of sombody telling you, possibly their interpretation of the Word. As with every institution alas, there lurks corruption but to be human is to sin and therein lies the struggle. Daily for me.

 

 

not to start a religious debate here, but ............

 

"Christ directs us to, go to church, tithe earnings, and most importantly read scripture and as someone else pointed out quite well, to read it youself instead of somebody telling you, possibly their interpretation of the Word"

 

Was it Christ that directs you to do this things? or was it someone who interpreted Christ, and perpetuated the directives?

 

Were any of us there to know what Christ directed, or are we just going on what someone interpreted from the ancient languages. Interpretations are troubling....back in the days when bibles were hand copied, they were commonly mis-copied, and mis translated.

 

Do a search for Moses' horns....due to a mistranslation, for many years Moses was depicted as having horns growing out of his head....

 

here you go

 

Moses' horns

 

simply saying.....becareful when you say Christ said _____________. Someone says he said it.....even the bible can mis quote

 

....that is the best we can go with until the time machine gets invented....

 

Be good....don't matter what religion you are.....just be a good person.....and believe what you want to ..... we have that freedom.....exercise it!

[Paladin 37]

Actually the motto is on the coin edge where it used to be reeded. This is the same as removing the 'In G-d we Trust motto' while pretending not to remove it. Atheist scums. This country was established on the Judeo -Christian ethics and the leftist atheists want to take that out of the country. Some of the worst offenders are the ACLU who sue to remove the Ten Commandments from public buildings.

 

America was built on trust in G-d and that's why the nation became the most successful one in world history. This is why the Eurotrash are jealous even though it's their socialist mentality which impeded their success.

 

 

Here's the problem- atheist scum? wow. So, since I'm not just like you, I suck.

 

You give your faith a bad name dude. And by the way, America was built on tolerance for different beliefs. The Founding Fathers, many of whom were very religious men, wrote our constitution to reflect that. They had learned from others mistakes, you know, like the muslim extremists? They think non-muslims are scum too.

 

First Amendment;

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

 

And the "in god we trust" crap was not put on our money until the 1950's when we were trying to prove we were better than the commies. It's in direct violation of the Constitution to have religious sayings or markings on government created items. English is my native language and

I understand what the above amendment means just fine. In fact, I think it's pretty fucking clear, just like the Second Amendment is.

 

I believe in ALL of our Constitution, not just the parts that suit me. We would be better off as a country if we got back to it.

 

Sorry for the rant, I try to ignore it when you guys get up on your pulpits, but every now and then I feel I need to remind you that there's a few other billion people out here.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Sorry Paladin, no cigar. You forgot coinage which is what started this. http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets...d-we-trust.html Your quote of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is indeed accurate. No law respecting an establishment means exactly that. If it said "freedom from religion" it would have said that.

1911

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

History of 'In God We Trust'

The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

 

Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.

One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

 

You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

 

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

 

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.

 

As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:

Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins.

You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.

 

It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States. This meant that the mint could make no changes without the enactment of additional legislation by the Congress. In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY; OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as a motto on the coins. In a letter to the Mint Director on December 9, 1863, Secretary Chase stated:

I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with the word OUR, so as to read OUR GOD AND OUR COUNTRY. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read: IN GOD WE TRUST.

The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

 

Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."

[Paladin 37]

You are correct about the coinage, I was referring to paper money when I mentioned the 1950's. However, the point and principal of what I stated still stands. 1864 is 86 years later than when our Fathers drafted the constitution. You're own post illustrates that it was a result of the difficult times of the civil war and not a result of our original constitution. The premise that America was "founded on trust in god" as often stated is just flat wrong.

 

And 1911, I read plenty of your posts. You're a smart man, the trite saying about "doesn't mean freedom FROM religion" is a misnomer and you know it. It's trying to work around what the 1st says and means just like the anti-gun lobby tries to do with the 2nd Amendment.

 

It reads there is to be NO state established religion. The government is supposed to be completely neutral on the subject, neither for nor against ANY belief system.

 

I don't believe in mystical beings and I should not be called scum for it, discriminated against in employment, housing, application of law, have to hide what I believe (or don't believe) to "conform" to the majority, etc. This is exactly what our Founding Fathers fled.

 

The Founding Fathers built this country on the premise that men should not be judged based solely on their personal beliefs.

 

"The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution is also the first section of the Bill of Rights. It is arguably the most important part of the U.S. Constitution, as it guarantees freedoms of religion, speech, writing and publishing, peaceful assembly, and the freedom to raise grievances with the Government. In addition, it requires that a wall of separation be maintained between church and state. It reads:

 

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

 

Its origins in the Virginia Bill on Religious Freedom

 

The roots of the First Amendment can be traced to a bill written by Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) in 1777 and proposed to the Virginia Legislature in 1779. 1 It guaranteed freedom of (and from) religion. After an impassioned speech by James Madison, and after some amendments, it became law on 1786-JAN-16. 2

 

How the first amendment was written:

 

In the spring of 1778, the Constitutional Convention was held in Philadelphia, PA. They resolved three main religious controversies. They:

- Decided that there would be no religious test, oath or other requirement for any federal elected office

- Allowed Quakers and others to affirm (rather than swear) their oaths of office

- Refrained from recognizing the religion of Christianity, or one of its denominations, as an established, state church.

 

But there was no specific guarantee of religious freedom.

 

Jefferson was pleased with the constitution, but felt it was incomplete. He pushed for legislation that would guarantee individual rights, including what he felt was the prime guarantee: freedom of and from religion. Madison promised to promote such a bill, in order to gain support for the ratification of the constitution by the State of Virginia. In 1789, the first of ten amendments were written to the constitution; they have since been known as the Bill of Rights. "

 

 

Judge me for what I am and do. I grew up dirt freaking poor, we didn't even have a car. I worked two jobs for years, worked my way through college-twice, started my own business, been faithfully married to the same woman for 15 years, have 3 beautiful children that I dote on, I have taught at vocational schools gratis, donate to paralyzed veterans groups, put in a new mailbox for the two old ladies in the neighborhood, etc. Hell, I even took my mom to church for easter because I knew it would make her happy (yes, she's a christian-deaconess in her church). The point is that only the most ignorant and base people hate others for no other reason than they don't believe the same way they do. You know, like the Taliban and Bin Laden.

 

I'm not perfect, I don't care for the grossly obese and fanatics, but call me scum to my face on the wrong day and my educated veneer might give way to my roots in Kentucky and West Virgina where we take things like that personal.

 

On a side note, I find the notion that you need to believe in a mystical being to help you face the struggle of good vs. evil is puzzling to me. Juggernaut and I have discussed this before privately. I know it's wrong to (seriously) lie, cheat, steal, and generally screw people over, so I don't.

[RangerM9 1]

I think Pal got this confused with "under God" being added to the pledge of allegiance back in the 50s or so (i don't recall the exact year....though i looked it up once.....i am currently feeling much too lazy to do a search....(long damn day).

 

as far as no law regarding the establishment of religion....we have already violated that one by give tax exempts status to "approved religions"....the fact that some religions are approved and others are not....is just another another violation.

[Koliadko 207]

Okey dokey. Most of you here know I spent most of my life as an Agnostic. I didn't start believing until my brother committed suicide. I talked to alot of people trying to figure out if he made it to Heaven. That said, y'all understand I'm not a 'born again Christian'. Just a believer.

 

Giving tax exempt status isn't Congress 'Making a law establishing religion'. They are simply a non-profit organization. Not because they are religious. But because they are non-profit.

 

There is nothing in the Constitution about separation of church and state. The FF never intended it to be that way. Jefferson was very clear in his letter to the Baptists. No one religion shall run the state. And it doesn't. But this country was founded on Christian values. It may be Ok for Muslims to beat up a woman that was raped but it's not Ok here. Because this country wasn't founded on their values.

 

And there is a freedom 'of' and not 'from' religion. The FF had no intent for the atheists taking over 85% of the populations rights. Are they really so offended by people simply bowing their heads to pray? Seriously? I had no problem with it all my life without believing. What's up there ass so bad they can't simply keep their mouths shut for a few minutes like I did while people did what they felt they should do?

 

Sorry, I now stand down from my soap box. Been a long day.

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Paladin:

 

I agree in most part with what you have to say; however, the freedom "of" versus "from" religion is a sticking point. You are certainly free to pursue whatever religion that you choose under the Constitution whether it be "evolutionism" (which is indeed a religion), Christianity, Judaism, or whatever. The whole point of freedom of religion was to point out that you could not be kept from voting or holding office because you were a Presbyterian instead of a Methodist or a Jew instead of a Muslim. No where that I read do I find the forbidding of the mention of God. Quite the contrary, I find a prohibition of a government established theology. I have no doubt that you and many citizens are good folks but I see nothing that prohibits the free expression of a belief in God by the remainder of us who choose to worship Him. I will leave it at that for now. I have had a delightful dinner with my bride and consumed a small bottle of Chianti so I'll leave this for the moment. Be aware that we are very close in opinion (I suspect) and I have no desire to start a crusade.

 

Best,

1911

Edited May 23, 2008 by 1911

[RangerM9 1]

Freedom of religion means that we are free to practice whatever religion we want, including atheism, agnosticism, stanism....etc.....they may be in the minorities of popularity but they are a chosen religious belief by certain people....hell....i've read that over in england there are actually practicing Jedi for godsake....

 

As a non religious person i am not offended when my wife prays, i am not offended when friend pray, i'm not offended watching ball players huddle for a post game prayer. That is their choice to execise their freedom of religion.

 

I am offended when someone tries to convert me because they feel my beliefs are not valid and that their choice of religion has so much more to offer me. Bullshit!...i'm an adult i can make up my own damn mind thank you very much!

 

Growing up as a non-believer really sucked, ya know why?.....because everyone again thought they had to convert me and save my soul....well my soul was just fine thanks, and still is.

 

I do object to organized prayer in public schools because you cannot make a prayer generic enough to not force one set of beliefs on another...which violates freedom OF religion

 

.......i do not object to having 60 seconds of SILENT medication so that a person can

1) pray

2) mentally prepare

3) relax and collect their thoughts

4) or pick their damn nose....if they want to

 

it's their 60 seconds to do with whatever they want so long as they do it quietly.

 

Group prayer is not required in school....pretty sure the almighty (being that he/she IS ALMIGHTY) has pretty good reception on the prayer line, and can most likely get the point without you all holding hands and speaking out loud. the latter display is just meant to impress or influence others.

 

You are free to pray as loud and hard as you want at home, in church, on the street, in a park, or any other location so long as anyone who does not wish to be part of that prayer has the opportunity to leave.....in schools....students don't get that opportunity.

 

I would not force your kids to be present for something that went against their beliefs, i would like to think that you would extend the same courtesy to my kids

 

1911...i think you are correct, there is a prohibition of a government established theology....however we do have government endorsed theology as we have Christmas as a governmental holiday (not that i mind the day off) but i gotta tell ya... I work with a whole lot of Jewish doctors who are pissing mad when procedures are scheduled around a religious holiday they do not observe and are instead made to work on their holy days.

 

 

 

so much for not turning this into a religious debate.....sorry folks....my bad!

[Paladin 37]

I'll just add that I do not try to "convert" or any way teach, influence, or extend my belief system to anyone else. And I don't care for others, no matter what their beliefs, trying to to do so.

 

I have close friends who are christain, jewish, etc. I don't preclude associating with them because I'm an atheist. We have discussed it over burgers and beers on my deck many times, but religion is not something they or I wear on our sleeves like a holy badge of honor. And we certainly don't condemn people just for their beliefs. We have talked about the muslim extremists and the whole stoning, honor killings, etc. shit they do. And because of what they DO we think they suck and would like to pop a cap in them.

 

I, obviously, can take care of myself. But I have small children that I do not want made to feel "different", and an "outsider", or marginalized in any way in public institutions or public places in their own freaking country by people who feel it's their "duty" to spread their beliefs and work to get their message spread all over every public edifice. That's what your church is for. Atheists are not "attacking" anyone, this country is overwhelmingly christain and the president "talks to god", what the hell are they afraid of? no one is saying you can't practice your religion, just keep it to yourself. The constitution says what it says and there are many who believe in it, and so don't like people trying to usurp it and get "their message" spread throughout government. Because they have got it all figured out and the other 6 billion people on the planet are just stupid.

 

UziTiger's statement hit me the wrong way. To think a jew would call someone with a different belief "scum" boggles my mind. The jewish people were killed by the millions for no other reason than they were jewish!!

 

Is he going to tell his children not to play with mine because their scum? Isn't that the kind of thing Hitler did? Isn't that what Stalin did? Isn't that what is happening right now with muslim extremists? Is that what christians want for this country? Their in the majority and so should have their beliefs and customs enforced by the government through laws? That's not what MY Founding Fathers wanted and they wrote the constitution to prevent it.

 

And do you think in a SHTF situation I would ask you what you're religion is before I handed you my spare S-12 drum while fighting the zombies?

[Koliadko 207]

Freedom of religion means that we are free to practice whatever religion we want, including atheism, agnosticism, stanism....etc.....they may be in the minorities of popularity but they are a chosen religious belief by certain people....hell....i've read that over in england there are actually practicing Jedi for godsake....

 

http://www.venganza.org/

Far as I'm concerned, these people can believe as they so choose too.

 

 

As a non religious person i am not offended when my wife prays, i am not offended when friend pray, i'm not offended watching ball players huddle for a post game prayer. That is their choice to execise their freedom of religion.

 

 

Thank you. I'm so sick of everyone being offended by everything. I'm offended by everything that offends everyone. How's that?

 

I am offended when someone tries to convert me because they feel my beliefs are not valid and that their choice of religion has so much more to offer me. Bullshit!...i'm an adult i can make up my own damn mind thank you very much!

 

 

The way I see this, these people aren't trying to convert you. In their minds eye, they are trying to save you. Belief in God cannot be forced. You can say over and over that you believe in God. If you don't really mean it, it don't mean squat. And don't get me wrong. When those people come around, I say thanks but no thanks. I believe as I see fit.

 

Growing up as a non-believer really sucked, ya know why?.....because everyone again thought they had to convert me and save my soul....well my soul was just fine thanks, and still is.

 

 

I'm sure it is Ranger. But let me ask. Did anyone ever force you or did they simply ask that you listen to their point of view and make up your own mind?

 

I do object to organized prayer in public schools because you cannot make a prayer generic enough to not force one set of beliefs on another...which violates freedom OF religion

 

.......i do not object to having 60 seconds of SILENT medication so that a person can

1) pray

2) mentally prepare

3) relax and collect their thoughts

4) or pick their damn nose....if they want to

 

it's their 60 seconds to do with whatever they want so long as they do it quietly.

 

I've never heard of any forced prayer in (public) school. I started school in 1969 and finished in 1982. I was never forced to pray but I was forced to keep my mouth shut for a minute or two every morning to do as you mentioned above. None of my kids have been forced either.

Group prayer is not required in school....pretty sure the almighty (being that he/she IS ALMIGHTY) has pretty good reception on the prayer line, and can most likely get the point without you all holding hands and speaking out loud. the latter display is just meant to impress or influence others.

 

 

The latter, at times, is meant to bring solace to the people doing it. Nothing more, nothing less. My sons best friend died last fall. My son is an agnostic. But the family, which included us, gathered in a circle at the service and prayed. Even my son. No harm, no foul.

You are free to pray as loud and hard as you want at home, in church, on the street, in a park, or any other location so long as anyone who does not wish to be part of that prayer has the opportunity to leave.....in schools....students don't get that opportunity.

Again, I've seen no forced prayer in school. But I like the rest of what you said there.

 

 

I would not force your kids to be present for something that went against their beliefs, i would like to think that you would extend the same courtesy to my kids

 

 

1911...i think you are correct, there is a prohibition of a government established theology....however we do have government endorsed theology as we have Christmas as a governmental holiday (not that i mind the day off) but i gotta tell ya... I work with a whole lot of Jewish doctors who are pissing mad when procedures are scheduled around a religious holiday they do not observe and are instead made to work on their holy days.

 

 

 

so much for not turning this into a religious debate.....sorry folks....my bad!

 

 

It already was. Thanks for hearing me out.

[RangerM9 1]

Racegal,

 

there were a lot of attempts by religion based student groups in my area to get a daily moment of prayer into public high schools....not sure if that was a national thing or not but it seemed to be in the news a lot here for a few years.

 

that was the basis of my discussion....didn't realize it was not a nation wide story at the time.

[Twinsen 86]

Well, after saying all that, I'll probably end up reading the bible at some point.

 

Just don't expect me to believe that our God is somebody so unforgiving and blind so as to send a murderer to heaven if he repents, and me to hell if I don't worship him regularly enough through prayer. I believe more toward the plain old Dharma look at it, that just doing the right thing and not being hedonistic is the right path.

 

I appreciate people that try to take the "organized" out of organized religion. So nice job, Juggsy. The next generation will appreciate that.

[Koliadko 207]

Well, after saying all that, I'll probably end up reading the bible at some point.

 

Just don't expect me to believe that our God is somebody so unforgiving and blind so as to send a murderer to heaven if he repents, and me to hell if I don't worship him regularly enough through prayer. I believe more toward the plain old Dharma look at it, that just doing the right thing and not being hedonistic is the right path.

 

I appreciate people that try to take the "organized" out of organized religion. So nice job, Juggsy. The next generation will appreciate that.

 

 

My understanding is you don't have to. You just simply need to believe.