S-12 Conversion NIGHTMARE!

[SaigaNoobie 66]

So I began my conversion a week ago. Took off the plate (easy enough) then added Skiboatsp's Trigger guard plate (Easy enough) then I painted it all (just a black temp paint) and waited for my trigger group and AK SAW grip to arrive.

 

 

Last night I started to put it together (The internals).

 

Problems I encountered that I failed to forsee:

 

The BHO BLOCKS the selector/safety from being installed???? WTF! I had to grind a 1/4" wide x 1/4" deep notch to allow the selector to go through. I only figured this out AFTER I had installed the BHO and spring... so I had to dismantle it again /sigh.

 

Next, the Spring-steel retainer plate from Tapco. OMFG I cannot file that by hand. the Steel is so hard that one side of my triangle file is shiny now

 

I resorted to hacking pieces off the Tapco retainer plate with a cold chisel and a 4lb finishing hammer.

 

 

I started at 6pm and when I looked at the clock at 3am and the damn retainer plate was the only thing left to fit, I went to bed.

 

 

My hands are sore from hand filing the hammer, the BHO, and attempting to file the Tapco Piece....

 

 

AND TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE!

 

The damn Tapco G2 disconnector lacks the ledge on the rear that usually stops the safety switch from going to high. So I'm going to have to solve that... somehow

[Bayoupiper 738]

You are in the right place where there are people who can and will get you through this!

[SgtRock 0]

I'd invest in a Dremel; I couldn't imagine attempting a conversion without one.

[Flex_BT 0]

I'd invest in a Dremel; I couldn't imagine attempting a conversion without one.

 

I'm in the middle of my conversion now and have had similar problems with the BHO / saftey. I don't see why the saftey shouldn't be installed first. I ended up taking the hammer assembly rod out to be able to maneuver the BHO into place around the safter which resulted in me having to touch up the paint job on the receiver / ends of the rod. One thing that has made this project very easy and enjoyable is the fact that I bought really nice tools to do it including a dremel that have saved me a lot of time and headaches. I'm right there with you on the fingers being cut up and about raw from all the work with the FCG though. It's been a pain. I'll post my sob story up when I complete the conversion but it had to do with the retainer spring (I was thinking about just getting a retainer plate like you instead... now maybe not?) being caught on the hammer spring and not being able to back it out without bending the shit out of it.

 

If you don't know the trick with the BHO spring and dental floss yet check this out:

 

 

Brilliant... but it's still a pain in the ass, just less of a pain in the ass. Be patient and get help from the people here, they've been awesome in guiding me so far.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I'm exaggerating the time it takes with the BHO spring. I use a piece of string to pull it through the trigger group pin hole, then stick a rod in and push it down while i get the pin through. . . . it really takes 5 mins, but while I'm doing it, it seems like 30!

 

I have a dremel... it's 240 miles away at my Fiances house... i forgot to bring it home. BELIEVE ME, the dremel is great, but it's a no-go until the weekend.

 

 

Luckily I'm borrowing the dremel of a friend at work, so tonight i'll F*ck that retainer plate UP! My fingers are swollen from the 4+hrs i spent manually filing the base of the hammer, and other misc. parts. Those triangular files are NOT fun to hold onto for a long period of time. . . .

 

 

Compared to my x39 conversion, this thing is 10000x harder. But, once i get the retainer plate in, i'll be very happy!

 

 

 

 

One more thing. Anyone have a solution for a safety stop in the upward position?

 

If I recall correctly, the S-12 Shotgun has 13 imported parts? Correct me if I'm wrong....

 

If I replace the piston, trigger and hammer, I'm compliant with any mag and any stock. (got the tromix piston part)

 

I seem to recall the Shotguns being classified as 13 parts... if so, i'll stick that damn russian disconnector in.... or... maybe I'll cut the back part of the disconnector off and install it on the Tapco via JBweld.... hrm.

 

 

OH, I also had to fit the trigger, I ordered the 2hook on purpose and although it took some fine tuning, my overtravel is about 1mm at the hooks. super nice. I may build up the rear of the trigger ears to allow a shorter pull length too.

[akclan33 0]

Dude dont use the stupid retaining plate its just a waste of time ,just use a AK shepards crook (retaining wire), I tried filing down the plate also to get it to fit,its more trouble then it s worth. I have had no problems with the wire.

Also I had to put a notch in my BHO lever ,thats the only way to get the safety lever in that I know of

Edited June 18, 2008 by jon36

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Dude dont use the stupid retaining plate its just a waste of time ,just use a AK shepards crook (retaining wire), I tried filing down the plate also to get it to fit,its more trouble then it s worth. I have had no problems with the wire.

Also I had to put a notch in my BHO lever ,thats the only way to get the safety lever in that I know of

 

I'm giving the retaining plate one last try tonight when i grind it down. I just don't know where to purchase a shepards crook locally and paying $8 shipping on a $0.50 part isn't appealing.

[zone1935 5]

Did you buy the shotgun spicific plate? I had wondered the same thing about the saftey, I just installed the FCG and checked safety operation with the selector in the proper position. while the trigger did travel more than with the stock FCG, it would not allow the sear to disengage from the hammer. I haven't read of safety problems on the 12's before, but there can always be a first. the s308's have had safety issues when converted without a convereted 308 FCG.

[akclan33 0]

Dude dont use the stupid retaining plate its just a waste of time ,just use a AK shepards crook (retaining wire), I tried filing down the plate also to get it to fit,its more trouble then it s worth. I have had no problems with the wire.

Also I had to put a notch in my BHO lever ,thats the only way to get the safety lever in that I know of

 

I'm giving the retaining plate one last try tonight when i grind it down. I just don't know where to purchase a shepards crook locally and paying $8 shipping on a $0.50 part isn't appealing.

With the rising cost of 7.62x39 I do not shoot my AK"S, so what I did was I took the retaining wire out of my AK and put it into my S-12,now you can find a wire at a gun show, maybe that way you will not have to pay the shipping cost or if you have an AK just use the wire out of that

[oldandslow 3]

Do you become an expert because it is easy? Don't forget: Tragedy plus time = good story.

 

I'm surprised that you haven't mentioned the disconnector to selector interference. When I installed the pin retainer plate, the selector is installed last. Which means the BHO and disconnector are in the way. If you use the "shepards crook", you don't have to take the selector out.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I've said for a long time that those plates are a waste of time and energy. I've even posted pics of the necessary mods to it if you want to use it in an S-12.

It's so much easier to just use the right thing for the job, a real shepherd's crook.

 

There have been many threads dealing with that and the BHO issue. Do some reading.

 

I don't know what you are talking about with the disconnector, there are no issues with that on an S-12 conversion, just the .308. I've used the G-2 on most all of mine and never encountered a problem with the disconnector, other than having to pull the trigger to move it out the way while installing the selector.

 

A bench grinder is the proper way to remove the hump on the G-2, if you used a little triangle file for that your hands probably do hurt.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I use E-clips in my X39 conversion but I'm weary about using them with the increase recoil in the 12ga.

 

But if all else fails, that's what I'll buy tonight.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I've said for a long time that those plates are a waste of time and energy. I've even posted pics of the necessary mods to it if you want to use it in an S-12.

It's so much easier to just use the right thing for the job, a real shepherd's crook.

 

There have been many threads dealing with that and the BHO issue. Do some reading.

 

I don't know what you are talking about with the disconnector, there are no issues with that on an S-12 conversion, just the .308. I've used the G-2 on most all of mine and never encountered a problem with the disconnector, other than having to pull the trigger to move it out the way while installing the selector.

 

A bench grinder is the proper way to remove the hump on the G-2, if you used a little triangle file for that your hands probably do hurt.

 

 

LOL @ bench grinder. I do this in my 3rd story apt. No bench grinders!

 

I usually use my dremel but I didn't have it so i just sat down, watched two movies and filed away by hand.

 

The problem with the G2 disconnector is this: The Rear portion of it (where the selector stop would hit on FA causeing the disconnect to not engage the hammer) is gone. Instead of a small plateau, there is just the drop off. What this has done is allow my safety to rotate UPward past the intended stop location because the safety doesn't engage the disconnect until it is much higher than the normal safety position. I'll show you pictures this evening for clarity.

 

 

It's not an issue of being safe, it's an issue of "the damn thing goes too high" and looks bad.... you know, like a shoulder thing that goes up.

[zone1935 5]

I've said for a long time that those plates are a waste of time and energy. I've even posted pics of the necessary mods to it if you want to use it in an S-12.

It's so much easier to just use the right thing for the job, a real shepherd's crook.

 

There have been many threads dealing with that and the BHO issue. Do some reading.

 

I don't know what you are talking about with the disconnector, there are no issues with that on an S-12 conversion, just the .308. I've used the G-2 on most all of mine and never encountered a problem with the disconnector, other than having to pull the trigger to move it out the way while installing the selector.

 

A bench grinder is the proper way to remove the hump on the G-2, if you used a little triangle file for that your hands probably do hurt.

 

 

LOL @ bench grinder. I do this in my 3rd story apt. No bench grinders!

 

I usually use my dremel but I didn't have it so i just sat down, watched two movies and filed away by hand.

 

The problem with the G2 disconnector is this: The Rear portion of it (where the selector stop would hit on FA causeing the disconnect to not engage the hammer) is gone. Instead of a small plateau, there is just the drop off. What this has done is allow my safety to rotate UPward past the intended stop location because the safety doesn't engage the disconnect until it is much higher than the normal safety position. I'll show you pictures this evening for clarity.

 

 

It's not an issue of being safe, it's an issue of "the damn thing goes too high" and looks bad.... you know, like a shoulder thing that goes up.

 

Ok, a cosmetic issue is alot easier to deal with than a operational issue. Are you talking about how the top edge of the lever goes up into the top cover further than it did?

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I've said for a long time that those plates are a waste of time and energy. I've even posted pics of the necessary mods to it if you want to use it in an S-12.

It's so much easier to just use the right thing for the job, a real shepherd's crook.

 

There have been many threads dealing with that and the BHO issue. Do some reading.

 

I don't know what you are talking about with the disconnector, there are no issues with that on an S-12 conversion, just the .308. I've used the G-2 on most all of mine and never encountered a problem with the disconnector, other than having to pull the trigger to move it out the way while installing the selector.

 

A bench grinder is the proper way to remove the hump on the G-2, if you used a little triangle file for that your hands probably do hurt.

 

 

LOL @ bench grinder. I do this in my 3rd story apt. No bench grinders!

 

I usually use my dremel but I didn't have it so i just sat down, watched two movies and filed away by hand.

 

The problem with the G2 disconnector is this: The Rear portion of it (where the selector stop would hit on FA causeing the disconnect to not engage the hammer) is gone. Instead of a small plateau, there is just the drop off. What this has done is allow my safety to rotate UPward past the intended stop location because the safety doesn't engage the disconnect until it is much higher than the normal safety position. I'll show you pictures this evening for clarity.

 

 

It's not an issue of being safe, it's an issue of "the damn thing goes too high" and looks bad.... you know, like a shoulder thing that goes up.

 

Ok, a cosmetic issue is alot easier to deal with than a operational issue. Are you talking about how the top edge of the lever goes up into the top cover further than it did?

 

 

PRECISELY!

 

It bugs me but it's not a function or safety thing.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

GOOD NEWS THOUGH!!!!

 

I got home with my buddy's dremel, cut a little off the retainer plate, ground some here and there and BAM! it fits!...

 

Now the next step is getting my 5.5mm folder from Rusmilitary (should be here in a couple o weeks) and install that new rear trunnion.

 

Oh and pics coming to the s12 pic thing soon of my stop-gap version

Edited June 19, 2008 by SaigaNoobie

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Here's the problem

 

 

See? it doesn't hit the disconnector early enough and the result is that ugliness when you push the safety on.

[madmax4x4 68]

I've said for a long time that those plates are a waste of time and energy. I've even posted pics of the necessary mods to it if you want to use it in an S-12.

It's so much easier to just use the right thing for the job, a real shepherd's crook.

 

There have been many threads dealing with that and the BHO issue. Do some reading.

 

I don't know what you are talking about with the disconnector, there are no issues with that on an S-12 conversion, just the .308. I've used the G-2 on most all of mine and never encountered a problem with the disconnector, other than having to pull the trigger to move it out the way while installing the selector.

 

A bench grinder is the proper way to remove the hump on the G-2, if you used a little triangle file for that your hands probably do hurt.

How will shepherd's crook go in gun, I have searched but only can find threads on e-clip ext. But not how to put it in

edit nevermind

Edited June 19, 2008 by madmax4x4

[zone1935 5]

Here's the problem

 

 

See? it doesn't hit the disconnector early enough and the result is that ugliness when you push the safety on.

 

 

It does the same thing on mine too. I have a couple of ideas rattling around my skull, I have been thinking of building the back protion of the disconnector up using an epoxy or somthing. It is nor a wear area to the best of my knoweldge, but I am not a gunsmith. I will talk with a local AK gunsmith and see if he has any anwsers.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I don't see a problem in the pic.

 

?????

 

It's not an AK rifle. The selector is supposed to go up that high. If it didn't you would see an open gap in the dustcover...hence the name dustcover? Do you want dust and debris getting inside your receiver? The extra cutout in the dustcovers of the Saiga shotguns, are there to allow the big ass shell to exit without resistance. The selector rotates up that far, and is shaped perfectly with the cutout, so that it seats in the dustcover and looks / works fine.

 

I guess I just don't see your logic...

 

The only thing I don't like is having to push the bump, on the back of the selector, over the leading edge of the receiver when taking the safety off.

 

 

 

 

And here is the pic of the mod to the POS plate....

 

The modified plate is sitting on top of the stock version.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

OOPS! wrong pic....

 

Here ya go....lol

 

[zone1935 5]

Here's the problem

 

 

If you look closely at the bottom edge of the safety lever right behind the rear of the bolt there is a open spot into the weapon's internals. Not a functional thing, just for looks

[Gunfixr 76]

As for the safety going too high, you can sort of tweak the edge of the dust cover and the top edge of the safety to make them hit each other as the safety comes up, then it will stop precisely at the point where it hist the safety. The best option is to weld a small piece to the safety, but not having a welder, this will work as well. If you're careful, it won't even be noticeable.

 

Yes, if you want to put in the safety selector last, the best option is to use about a 1/4" or so rattail file and put a notch in the BHO where it will hit as it goes in.

 

The BHO spring I always put in with a narrow set of needlenose pliers, holding it while I push the trigger pin through. Forceps can also be used. Afterwards, I reach in with the pliers or a screwdriver and pull the spring leg up onto the BHO. This is easier if the gun is mounted in a gun vise or something similar, so both hands are free.

 

I use a belt sander to do the hammer, but barring that, if you must file, get a big double cut mill or bastard file for that. Put a file handle on it. I have a file that will take off all that is necessary from the front of the hammer in about 5 minutes.

 

For pin retaining, I use the original spring wire that was in it from the factory most of the time. Take the extra leg off the coil end, so just the coil is left, and cut off the other end so that when installed, it reaches a little past the hammer pin with the coil sitting just in front of, but against the pistol grip nut. This way, it can't go rearward and off the hammer pin. You can even bend an arc where it goes past the hammer pin, guaranteeing that it won't move. To remove for disassembly, just reach in with your needlenose pliers and pull the coil to the rear. It will come off the hammer pin and drop down, allowing easy disassembly. If you have used a screw to hold the rear of the trigger guard, the coil will sit between it and the PG nut.

[Azrial 1,091]

I'd invest in a Dremel; I couldn't imagine attempting a conversion without one.

Thought I have to admit I am somewhat in awe of a man that would attempt it with just a "a cold chisel and a 4lb finishing hammer."

[sovbez 11]

Here is the solution of this problem : http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/43/259304.html

just look at the pictures in that topic if you can't read rus.

The problem was solved by soldering a small piece of metal (1,5mm thick) to that part of trigger.

Edited June 19, 2008 by sovbez

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Here is the solution of this problem : http://talks.guns.ru/forummessage/43/259304.html

just look at the pictures in that topic if you can't read rus.

The problem was solved by soldering a small piece of metal (1,5mm thick) to that part of trigger.

 

Yep, they replicated the look and function of the Russian Disconnect that came in the Shotty. Don't have the ability to Solder and / or Weld. But I'm innovative, I'll figure something out.

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I'd invest in a Dremel; I couldn't imagine attempting a conversion without one.

Thought I have to admit I am somewhat in awe of a man that would attempt it with just a "a cold chisel and a 4lb finishing hammer."

 

 

What can I say Azrial? I'm somewhat impatient and will use what I've got to do the job if I can. Some guys at work and I joke that I have a 4lb Sledge and use it for everything from survey stakes to drywall nails. They call it my "finishing hammer" so that's what I call it.... I broke down and bought a 28 oz USA made claw hammer only because I needed the claw end. For most things I use the 4lb

 

 

I did my x39 conversion with the following tools:

 

Cold Chisel

Rubber Hammer

Dremel

Screwdriver

Punch

Edited June 19, 2008 by SaigaNoobie

[zone1935 5]

What can I say Azrial? I'm somewhat impatient and will use what I've got to do the job if I can. Some guys at work and I joke that I have a 4lb Sledge and use it for everything from survey stakes to drywall nails. They call it my "finishing hammer"

 

I know what you mean I have actually used a 10 lb. sledge to "install" a window. I HAVE WITNESSES.

[SgtRock 0]

I think at the end of your conversion you deserve WECSOC certificate; even if blood was nor spilled.