welding on the "ugly gun"

[152dbs 0]

im kinda new to welding, learning as much and as fast as i can.....

 

 

i would like guidance as well as points of view from yall. i know the more skilled craftsmen (gunsmiths) can help us newbies out tremendously. ive see some work that leaves me in awe. id like to know as much as u can tell me and others on this forum. i work with a guy that is extremely cautious about heat near the reciever, but i want to push the limits.

 

 

thanks

[Vultite 57]

My gun is migged, all i can say is just pratice on scrap metal, i'm really not good enough for a presentable gun, so i had my brother-in-law do my gun, i'm better at things that aren't meant to be seen like under cars and whatnot, but what i picked up is make sure you have a steady hand, proper heat and penetration (i notice a rough area on the other side for penetration) and of course a mask. if you get sloppy, you'd better be handy with a dremel to smooth it out.....good luck, i'm not much help but i give what i can, i learn best with hands on experiance vs. theory

Edited September 17, 2008 by Vultite

[SJgunguy 5]

Like Vultite said practice with scrap. I would avoid a wire feed machine for gunsmithing. TIG machines produce cleaner welds and controling the heat is easier.

[Gunfixr 76]

TIG is better for gun work, you can plug holes with MIG, but a lot of jobs just won't work with wire feed.

 

+100 on the scrap metal. Get it in different thickness, going ever thinner. If you can successfully weld .030" steel, then there isn't really anything you can't get welded. If you've got any trashed steel magazines, they're good practice, as they run about .030" thick.

[nalioth 405]

im kinda new to welding, learning as much and as fast as i can.....

 

 

i would like guidance as well as points of view from yall. i know the more skilled craftsmen (gunsmiths) can help us newbies out tremendously. ive see some work that leaves me in awe. id like to know as much as u can tell me and others on this forum. i work with a guy that is extremely cautious about heat near the reciever, but i want to push the limits.

 

 

thanks

If by "ugly gun", you mean a Kalashnikov variant, the receiver heat treat isn't an issue except in the area of the trigger pivot, hammer pivot and safety holes.

 

Besides, as has been mentioned, tig is the way to go.

[152dbs 0]

ak been referred to as "ugly gun" numerous times. reason i called it that was when the History channel had some show that the AK was in, it was commonly referred to as "the ugly gun". mustve been AR fans, b/c they were calling it the black beauty or something like that.

 

 

was planning on tigging...but wondered some specifics, mainly work w/ saigas. and didnt want to damage anything....didnt want to damage the looks or the integrity of the reciever, gas block, or bolt carrier.

 

wondered the temps yall used and things like that.

[Gunfixr 76]

Well obviously you need enough heat to make a puddle and fuse everything together, but you don't want to just melt it all down and have it run away. As far as heat ruining various parts, you mostly don't weld on any real stressed areas when doing a conversion. Unless you take a long time to get the welding done, and therefore apply heat for a longer time, spreading it further from the point of origin, you should be fine.

That's the idea with practicing on similar thicknesses and types of metal, so you can get a feel for the heat setting. You'll find that you can often use a rather low heat setting and have no real worries of melting everything away, but it takes longer to get the weld done, and it gets hot pretty far away from the weld site. Or, you can turn it up some and get it done quickly, not spreading the heat to far, but you have a greater risk of making a big hole that you now have to fill. There are different times that you will do either of those things, based on the job at hand.

 

I can't give you a specific setting, as the potentiometer on my machine just has lines that line up with the line on the knob. I know what I use where, but have no idea of the specific amperage. Gas flow is based on several things. A water cooled torch uses much less gas than an air cooled one, as the gas is part of the cooling system. Also, turning on a fan to keep you cool and blow away the fumes is nice, but means you have to turn up the gas some to keep a good shield around the arc. I have a diffuser collet holder on my torch, which disperses the gas in a very even pattern around the tungsten, as opposed to a standard gas cup. I use 2% thoriated tungsten for the electrode, and 100% Argon for the shielding gas. The smaller the electrode, the less amperage you need to get through it, so use the smallest that will work reliably. Too small, and the electrode will melt. I use 1/16". Also, for very thin work requiring very low amperage, moving the ground attachment closer means less power travel, and less it has to overcome, making it easier to get an arc with a small setting. I have a small ground table. It's a piece of approx 3/16" plate, 24x16" or so, with 2" long legs welded to the four corners. On the underneath side is a tab welded on for the ground clamp. When the ground clamp is hooked to it, anything I put up on that small "table" is grounded and ready to weld on. With the open space below it, it can set on my wooden workbench without worrying about setting the workbench on fire. When I don't need it, I just snap off the ground clamp, and set it aside. I just use a cheap drill press vise to hold things.

[wally 2]

if you can weld,as in a fender or the skin of a car door(molding holes) with a 110 volt welder/mig you can weld your s12 with the small mig easy as pie,no matter what welder you use get some scrap sheet metal and practice on it first,drill some 3/16 or 1/4 inch holes and practice welding them up

[SJgunguy 5]

Don't use a wire feed. It's gonna look like hammed shit. If you do go with a wire feed run gas DO NOT USE FLUX CORE WIRE.

 

Tig is the best way to go. Order a couple of extra flats to practice on,you want to practice with the same type of material that the finished product is made with. Shear off a few strips from extra flats, that will be your filler metal.

[kg4chm 0]

Another vote for tig.......I never use a mig for anything anymore. Heat shouldnt be an issue at all if using a tig. Back the hole with a piece of copper and that will act sort of as a heat sink to draw heat away from the actual part you are welding plus it will leave a smooth finish on the backside of the hole. Also with tig YOU control the amount of filler that is used 100%, makes for cleaning up/smoothing much easier and less time consuming.

[SJgunguy 5]

Another vote for tig.......I never use a mig for anything anymore. Heat shouldnt be an issue at all if using a tig. Back the hole with a piece of copper and that will act sort of as a heat sink to draw heat away from the actual part you are welding plus it will leave a smooth finish on the backside of the hole. Also with tig YOU control the amount of filler that is used 100%, makes for cleaning up/smoothing much easier and less time consuming.

 

 

I was gonna suggest using a copper plate too. I was thinking though, if someone has a thick copper plate laying around, it's prolly getting recycled or melted down for bullets.

 

The copper works great. I had to weld up some #8 mirror finished stainless for a job (that shit isn't cheap) after burning up a piece, some old Journeyman came over and "Learned me". Some times them old farts are good for something other than talking shit. In my trade the knowledge passed down through the generations is the most important thing. I wish I could find an old gunsmith who would teach me.

[frick 3]

First, before you even start, get a set of "How to" books, mine were all Lincoln Electric, and Linde, and they used to even give you them for free, if not, check your library, or even your local Vo tech may have a set you can use.

 

Study the basic techniques for stick welding, and practice them, it will give you the skills needed to master the other types.

 

Mig welding is easy, I could teach a monkey to mig weld, thats why it has become so prominent in the industry, a fast learning curve, if you can't master it, find a real welder.

 

Thats not an insult, but if you can't handle a Mig, TIG is not going to happen.

 

Long before I started tig, I learned Oxy Acetylene gas welding, its a very similar technique, but the heat is much more directable with a TIG machine.

 

The other thing you have to take into account, is cost, you are going to pony up a fair amount of money to get a decent tig set up.

 

Probably the best starter set up, is the Miller Inverter machines, they are about the size of a large lunchbox, come standard with stick leads, and you can add a small air cooled TIG torch. They will run on 110, and 220, with out even changing a switch, and going to 220 damn near doubles your amperage.

 

While they are DC only, meaning they will TIG weld any ferrous metals with no problem, aluminum is VERY difficult, because the DC is so much "Hotter" than an AC machine, so, I don't recommend using it for Aluminum TIG work, unless you have VERY good skills.

 

At a shop, you are looking at 1100 to 1200 bucks, I got one on ebay for about 800 used, from a pawn shop.

 

I would stay away from the foreign crap, because they are exactly that, crap. They may work initially, but, you will never find parts for them.

 

What you need to decide, is, whether its worth it to shell out the $$$ for a machine you are going to use twice a year, or just to take it to a pro, and pay him, to do a good job, the first time.

[kg4chm 0]

First, before you even start, get a set of "How to" books, mine were all Lincoln Electric, and Linde, and they used to even give you them for free, if not, check your library, or even your local Vo tech may have a set you can use.

 

Study the basic techniques for stick welding, and practice them, it will give you the skills needed to master the other types.

 

Mig welding is easy, I could teach a monkey to mig weld, thats why it has become so prominent in the industry, a fast learning curve, if you can't master it, find a real welder.

 

Thats not an insult, but if you can't handle a Mig, TIG is not going to happen.

 

Long before I started tig, I learned Oxy Acetylene gas welding, its a very similar technique, but the heat is much more directable with a TIG machine.

 

The other thing you have to take into account, is cost, you are going to pony up a fair amount of money to get a decent tig set up.

 

Probably the best starter set up, is the Miller Inverter machines, they are about the size of a large lunchbox, come standard with stick leads, and you can add a small air cooled TIG torch. They will run on 110, and 220, with out even changing a switch, and going to 220 damn near doubles your amperage.

 

While they are DC only, meaning they will TIG weld any ferrous metals with no problem, aluminum is VERY difficult, because the DC is so much "Hotter" than an AC machine, so, I don't recommend using it for Aluminum TIG work, unless you have VERY good skills.

 

At a shop, you are looking at 1100 to 1200 bucks, I got one on ebay for about 800 used, from a pawn shop.

 

I would stay away from the foreign crap, because they are exactly that, crap. They may work initially, but, you will never find parts for them.

 

What you need to decide, is, whether its worth it to shell out the $$$ for a machine you are going to use twice a year, or just to take it to a pro, and pay him, to do a good job, the first time.

+1

I alreadyhave atig machine and I also gave access to 5 other tig machines at work. Its certainly not cheap to get into and not worth the $$$$ if you dont plan to use it a lot. I got a good deal on an OLD Hobart CyberTig or I wouldnt have one myself. I learned on an old Miller stick welder that had been converted to tig.......scratch start only. That was fun but Im glad I learned that way. It made welding with a real tig machine seem easy.

[aresv 49]

If you want to DIY and don't mind if your gun has a little character, I say go for it. Otherwise, find a professional or a trusted friend who can TIG. Me, I can't even walk and chew gum at the same time so I know better than to try TIG welding!

 

I MIG'ed my first S-12 conversion with plain wire and CO2. Some welding tasks are easier than others!

 

1. Easy and good looking: The old trigger pin holes were easy to clean up and dress; you can't even tell there were ever holes there.

 

2. Trickier, but still looks good: I cut a rectangular plate to fill the old hole on the bottom where the non-pistol-grip trigger used to stick out. Tacked at the corners and welded it in place. After dressing the inner and outer surfaces you can tell it has been patched, but the PG hides it anyway.

 

3. Thought it was easy, but it ended up looking ugly: I welded on a Tromix trigger guard and left an ugly bead. Made a second pass to clean it up and almost burned through the guard, but I fixed it with some angle grinder work and further welding to build it back up. It still doesn't look that great, but at least the guard is on solid. :-/

[hawk81 2]

Tig weld it if you can. Be sure to ground directly to the gun, so you don't get arc strikes from a metal table ground. Like others have said, get a similar piece of scrap metal to practice on. You do not want to burn through the reciever. It really isn't that difficult, as long as you have your welder set properly.