Saiga 12 19" w/pistol grip: "no drill" path to 922r com

[Shannon McNair 1]

Hi all,

 

I'm still both new to the Saiga 12 and this forum. Also, I have limited firearms experience generally. So please pardon any nooby mistakes in my question.

 

I've got a Saiga 12 on order and I want to put a pistol grip on it. As I understand it, that brings 922r into play. I blanch and the thought of having to go into the gun on my own to swap out parts (such as using the Tromix Fire Control Group for replacement parts).

 

Knowing well in advance that we're all just users here and not lawyers, can someone tell me if I've got this right?

 

Out of the box, the IZ-109 has 14 parts total.

 

Adding an ACE pistol grip/buttstock combo brings the overall total to 15, 13 of which are now foreign parts.

 

Using an American made high capacity magazine to replace the foreign magazine replaces 3 foreign parts (magazine body, follower, and floor plate).

 

This brings the foreign made total back to 10. That's compliance, is it not?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

-Molten Tuna

 

One side question: does the IZ-109 have a muzzle attachment OOB? If so, is that one of the 14 parts?

[MD_Willington 11]

IIRC the shotguns have 13 parts... but check with the shotgunners around here first before quoting that...

[kresk 10,063]

The famous "Soupbowl letter' from the ATF states there are thirteen parts on a Saiga shotgun, but many folks state if the barrel is threaded with the protective nut then the count is fourteen. It's generally thought by many that it's not the best idea too rely upon US mags to gain 922r compliance.

[bayonet lug 1]

Now all my guns are 922r ok. But really is ATF going to come to my house and take my guns apart, looking for a US stamp on all those parts? They must have a lot of time on their hands.

[BobAsh 582]

The ATF letter I have names 13 parts for the Saiga shotgun.

 

[Shannon McNair 1]

Now all my guns are 922r ok. But really is ATF going to come to my house and take my guns apart, looking for a US stamp on all those parts? They must have a lot of time on their hands.

 

Yeah, I think not.

 

Naturally, if someone wants to f*ck with you, they could pop out your magazine and put a foreign one in and say "see, you are out of compliance" as they hand you over to a kangaroo court with a black hood over your head. Of course, if things are that far gone, your 13 parts are the least of your worries.

 

In practical terms, I don't count the Feds scrutinizing my Saiga as being a great likelihood. I do get what people are saying here though, which is basically to err on the side of caution and affix the parts to the gun internals to assure compliance. But in the strictest sense, the 13 parts cited by the BATF letter, there are 3 parts on that magazine and technically that's all you need to change out to get to your 10.

[bayonet lug 1]

Now all my guns are 922r ok. But really is ATF going to come to my house and take my guns apart, looking for a US stamp on all those parts? They must have a lot of time on their hands.

 

Yeah, I think not.

 

Naturally, if someone wants to f*ck with you, they could pop out your magazine and put a foreign one in and say "see, you are out of compliance" as they hand you over to a kangaroo court with a black hood over your head. Of course, if things are that far gone, your 13 parts are the least of your worries.

 

In practical terms, I don't count the Feds scrutinizing my Saiga as being a great likelihood. I do get what people are saying here though, which is basically to err on the side of caution and affix the parts to the gun internals to assure compliance. But in the strictest sense, the 13 parts cited by the BATF letter, there are 3 parts on that magazine and technically that's all you need to change out to get to your 10.

or the three in the FCG and then you can use 8rd mags.

[BobAsh 582]

This topic goes around and around endlessly, but let me just say one thing.

 

When it comes to firearms laws, I strongly recommend you err on the side of caution. This is a potential felony you are talking about, and could destroy your personal right to own and bear forever.

[uzitiger 193]

You don't want to have the BATFE on your case. They are prosecuting someone for illegally posessing a machine gun because his AR fired more than one shot per trigger pull the judge ignored the fact the gun was defective.

 

You don't want to get railroaded like this guy especially if the judge is a Clinton or Carter appointee who hates guns. That will be a sure kangaroo court and a travesty of justice.

[elvis christ 451]

Nalioth has posted on numerous occasions that you don't have to drill out the pins to get the trigger out. He holds that you can just tap them out. I drilled mine.

 

But if you want to avoid drilling out the pins, but you are cool with drilling out the plate, which you won't reuse, I would try tapping out the pins and drilling out the plate.

 

Hell, even if you drill out both, it's not hard at all.

[Etek 32]

Buy the parts you want to put on AND extra 922® compliant US made parts. Invite the BATFE over and ask them. They'll tell you they have better things to do. If they DO show up and there are 3 of them you'll get 3 different opinions. One will say, "This law is about manufacturers". The next will say, "Why do you ask?". The third will say "It's your gun, stop wasting our time". Will any give you anything in writing? Nope. So write the BATFE 3 letters. I'd bet 3 different 'Opinions' or 'Findings' would be sent.

And nothing would stand up in court.

But it WOULD be expensive!

[Shannon McNair 1]

Nalioth has posted on numerous occasions that you don't have to drill out the pins to get the trigger out. He holds that you can just tap them out. I drilled mine.

 

But if you want to avoid drilling out the pins, but you are cool with drilling out the plate, which you won't reuse, I would try tapping out the pins and drilling out the plate.

 

Hell, even if you drill out both, it's not hard at all.

 

Well, it's an appealing thought. I could save on the labor. OTOH, I'm pretty new to guns overall. I'd hate to have the guts out on the table and not know how to get them all back together. Naturally I admire the guys who have longstanding knowledge about taking guns apart, and it's not that I'm a bozo when it comes to putting things together. But this would be my first ever operation on gun of any kind. Is it really something a novice can do?

 

Truly the costs are driving me nuts. I got a good buy on the Saiga, but adding on a folding stock and replacing the FCG + labor costs, add a couple of mags, and we're up over $400.

 

I admit, I'm a cheapskate. If I could at least trim the cost of the stock down to $100 and do the labor myself, I'd be able to do it.

[elvis christ 451]

Shit, man. Just pop the cover off your receiver and look at what's' going on inside the gun. Not very complicated. If you have some very simple tools (a drill or drill press, an assortment of drill bits, a bench grinder, and a punch set) you'll be able to do it, no problem. Hell, you could even skip the grinding process if you order the Tromix modified tapco FCG, since your converting an s12. On the S12 you have to grind a bit off the hammer to make it clear the cross member thing. I don't really know what it's called. I did my conversion by basically looking at the factory trigger group, and making my new trigger look like that. You're going to drop around what, $300, having some one do it for you. As long as you're careful and take your time, you'd be amazed at how simple of a procedure we're talking about here.

 

Being a novice with guns doesn't really have anything to do with it. As long as you are semi-crafty and able to use common tools, it's a breeze. If you're prone to botch things like, I don't know, hanging up curtains for your old lady or whatever, then yes, I'd leave it to the pros.

[frick 3]

Just do as you are thinking, and add one more US part to be safe, Gas puck/piston, 25 bucks, or a US made thread protector, its what I did, and I am more than happy with the results.

 

And, don't forget a russian Dragunov stock for the Saiga either, its ergonomics are terrible, but, its far better than the factory stock, although, It will not add one us part to the count, and as far as I understand, it doesn't make it non sporting, IE, no protruding pistol grip, its attached to the stock.

 

Just don't post a picture of your Saiga here, with the Ace folder on it, or you will automatically be added to the retard club.

[rjhauser 0]

i got the russian skeleton stock to use with mine, so the 922r does not come in to play while I get my parts together.

 

it actually is not a bad fit or function, although for some, ymmv.

 

get what you like, you have to live with it. and the fcg is not that hard to do if you take your time.

 

fcg, gas piston, pistol grip, stock, and magazines. that should cover it.

 

the following was not legal advice though. just some random ramblings.