Tokageko 8 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Ok, so I'm curious... who here shoots one handed? two handed? any special stance or rules on foot positon? What about strong hand/off hand? How do you guys shoot? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I practice handgunning MOSTLY one handed from 8 yards. Im not big on handguns really. revolvers I will shoot two handed, often leaning on something at long range, say 50 yards about, at coffee cans. autos I tend to shoot one handed, although I will shoot them two handed once in a while. it is always good to practice with both hands singly and together, and almost always standing, unless you have something like a long barreled revolver that you can have a reason to try to aim accurately down at the 50 yard marker or more. I dont have any training, so my experience is practical, and it works for me and my needs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Sounds very similar to how I shoot. It's almost always one hand only (left) while standing, and with a target at least 10 yards away. Note, this is with any hangun I shoot, revolver or automatic. The semi-autos are my favorites though. There are even a few guns I shoot at 50 yards. The only one I'm really any good with at that range though is the Baby Eagle 40S&W. Mostly for 10 yard targets I use a wooden stand with carboard stapled to it, and targets stapled to that. Past 10, out to 25 or 30, I shoot at a hefty chunk of oak. Beyond that, it's clay pigeons or bottles; whatever else I can find. As far as stance goes, I usually shoot with the front of my body facing perpendicular to the target, arm relaxed at the shoulder and tight at the wrist. I find that I shoot the most consistently from this position. I also do a lot of dry-fire practice at home. I'm probably going to start working on my off hand more. I always find it to be fun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
froggiefun45 0 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I shoot mostly a 2 handed tactical entry style with a side arm close to your chest at 7-12 yards.must admit tho, have a hard time qualifyin single handedly with my left hand... natural righty! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I would suggest making it a habbit to shoot standing sideways. With your shoulder pointing toward the target. Fire either with your "strong" hand crossing your chest or facing the other way with your strong hand pointed out at your target. Use your weak hand to brace for recoil. Although this is an uncomfortable possition, firing from this possition all the time will make it feel more natural and it makes a smaller target of yourself. If SHTF you want to be as skinny a target as possible. IMHO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 agreed completely Pistonring8 Having a slim profile is one of the better defences you can have. I have done some shooting from the position you mentioned and I didn't find it all that uncomfortable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Like 'ring says-a low profile is a good thing! That said, probably the best way to shoot is to lay the gun down. WITHOUT thinking of technique or any thing else- look at what you want to shoot and pick the gun up and shoot. The most comfortable position FOR YOU is most likly the one that you will instinctivly use. If that doesn't give you the results you want, then you may need to an experienced instructor. Just don't bet against yourself, or try to overthink it. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 I have heard of that tecnique before. Laying the pistol on the bench, or resting it at your side, and bringing it up to a natural position without looking at or focusing on the firearm until you are about to squeeze one off. Seems to help for some people, I see alot of guys/gals do it at the range. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 I always shoot with two hands, unless I take out the targets "Hollywood" style... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 I hold my gat sideways and pop caps like a mofo booiiieee! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Ky: man, I would have a seriously difficult time at that range.....Id want to take a couple rifles and excavate the entire target area....its too neat...needs some chaos brought to it IMHO.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted January 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 I have never tried just picking up the gun and shooting. I'll have to try it the next time I'm at the range. I wanted to add something else about sighting. If you want to find your natural position and learn to hold it: start with the gun held as you normally do while shooting and look down the sights; once you've aquired your target, close your eyes for a few seconds and then re-open them. You will probably find that your point of aim has changed. From there, experiment with different foot postion, correct posture, etc. until you find a position from which you can keep the same point of aim from the time you close your eyes to the time you open them. The same technique works very well for rifles. Another old trick, for developing a smooth trigger pull: set a dime on the front of your gun's slide, or even balanced on the front sight(!) and pull the trigger as you normally do. If you've got problems, and most people do, they should be immediately noticeable. Repeat this process until you can keep the dime in place all the way through a double-action trigger pull. ; ) hehehehe It's a good way to kill time if nothing else. Note: I want to make it absolutely clear that these techniques are meant for dry-fire practice. I've also started trying to develop a more consistant hold on my pistol, but don't have any specific technique yet. If anyone does, feel free to jump in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Coastie 0 Posted January 24, 2005 Report Share Posted January 24, 2005 Two handed tactical is how I shoot since that is how I was trained. I'm a complete mess with my left hand only (right hand dominant). I'll shoot one handed from 10-15 yards with my right hand with a modicum of success. I agree, the slimmer your profile and your spread stance coming across your chest with one hand is the easiest way. I also like G.O.B.'s comment about resting the pistol. Got me laughing Pistonring8 with your in-my-hood comment, that's classic! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunslinger308 0 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 Just watch the pros and try the way they hold and stand. If it works for you keep it, if it don't look at a different pro! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 25, 2005 Report Share Posted January 25, 2005 something else to practice, is set up three paladin targets at 3 different distances from you, and make sure there is plenty of turning distance between them. try going from the three in different orders quickly. another method I have used was gone into above. hold the pistol in both hands 45 degrees downward in front of you. stare at the target, and without focusing on the gun or the sights, bring it up quickly, fire when the gun is just below the sight plane to target, and see if you can plug the kill zone with one shot, or a double tap. I do this at 8 yards or less for my "armed crackhead making a mistake trying to rob me on payday" practice. Ill do maybe 25 rounds a session like that just to keep my snap fire up to par, but like ive previously stated, I suck with a pistol compared to my rifle and shotgunning. I guess there is an exercise at the police academy to help with squeezing the grip too hard. hold an egg in your palm while holding the gun with two hands. you should be able to fire the gun without breaking the egg. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-treO8 0 Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) Everybody's got good suggestions, but I must admit that kysoldier's way looks the most fun. And I agree with him...it is fun, maybe not practical, but a blast! 9's are cool, have one myself, but you hafta try it with twin .45's for the full affect, trust me. But seriously when I'm shooting a pistol (auto or revolver) standing still I usually have 2 hands on the gun held straight out with my feet pretty much shoulder width apart and by knee's bent a little and slightly leaning toward the taget kinda like you're supposed to do with a shotgun. A drill I've been taught is (WITH A VERIFIED EMPTY WEAPON, SHOW CLEAR, HAMMER DOWN, NO BANG, ETC) stand in whatever position you feel most comfortable and have your buddy hit the muzzle (hard) with the flat of his hand, simulating recoil. If you move at all, you're standing wrong, if you don't and maintain your site picture you're doing something right. If I'm moving while shooting, or have to shoot offhand/onehand I try to follow the same basic mechanics of controlling the recoil by keeping my arm(s) straight out and leaning into it, same if it's weakhand. You should be able to have the gun fire, recoil and come back to your site picture in the same position ready for the follow-up shot just about no matter the caliber, 9mm .40, .45, etc. I'm making these comments from an IPSC competition point of view, but it's what works for me. If you have a stance that works that's what counts. But, using methods described above and shown below allow non-veteran competitors to hit a sillouette dead center mass the majority of the time whether the target is 5 feet away or 75 feet away. The bullet goes straight, there is no drop at typical realistic pistol distances, it's just a matter of launching it from a solid platform so it hits where intended. Below: I'm on the left using decent just stopped, or about to move, stance with my first SA .45 (yes that is the brass at the top of the pic!). And a friend of mine is displaying excellent standing stationary stance with a really nice Dawson Precision/STI 38 super race gun. Edited February 22, 2005 by AK-treO8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 that part of the course is where i would get booted from the range by the nice fellow behind you. I would approach it as "as long as both of my feet are in the box im good" and prey-n-spray...the more you guys post competition pics, the less i want to submit myself to the control of "you do this just like this and you do that just like that and you turn just like this and point just like that and if you dont yer GONE buddy!" the worst part is at close range 10-12 yards, I hardly ever miss with offhand shots for some reason....ive shot that way since i was a kid, so I guess i have a knack for it or something.....with paladin and missed shot scoring, i probably wouldnt do so good, but there would be a LOT of holes REAL fast in every target when im done..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-treO8 0 Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 (edited) Cool. Like I said finding whatever works for you is best. Not everbody I know that shoots competively shoots the same. We're pretty laid back at our local club, but I know what you mean about the RO/SO laying into you. The thing is that if you want to participate in any kind of structured shooting competition so you can gauge your ability against your peers, have a blast and sometimes win cool stuff at bigger matches you have to follow the rules and and do what the RO tells you and of course never, NEVER break the 180. But, however you find the most (legal ) enjoyment in your shooting just have fun and don't put a hole in anything you don't want to while your spraying. I've been shooting since I was old enough to hold a rifle steady myself, but started shooting match's about 5 years ago. Before learning IPSC techniques and I could barely hit the broad side of a barn with a pistol, now I win in my class/division. I don't shoot competively very much, but since I've been doing so I've had some of the most enjoyable shooting experiences ever. 3-gun matches are the best, pistol/rifle/shotgun all rolled into one! If all you've ever done is shoot paper at a typical range or plink on somebody's property I'd encourage anyone one to try an IPSC, IDPA or SCSA type match. Any type if shooting that makes you move and shoot is non-comparable. Just for the experience if nothing else. Edited February 22, 2005 by AK-treO8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tokageko 8 Posted February 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 I've actually been interested in competition shooting shooting for a while. My father used to shoot with the marksmenship team at Rock Island Arsenal in the '70s. As far as I know, the closest he ever got to something like an IPSC event was the "rattle battle". Of course, we're excluding actual combat experience. ; ) He loved shooting, whenever he could get a chance, and has made it sound like a lot of fun. Honestly, that the main reason I shoot: recreation. It's just plain fun to do. I love the challenge of shooting from the standing off-hand postion, the concentration and focus involved in shooting from a rest, or prone, and of course: watching things shatter/break/fall over/explode. Not that I INTENTIONALLY would make this explode without just cause.... but sometimes it just happens. example: A few months ago I was shooting a Poly-tech M14 which has had some work done on it (new trigger group, NM bolt, etc.) and while I was shooting at some left-over clays on the berm, something exploded and caught a few things on fire, right as the bullet hit. I have no idea what it was that got hit (couldn't find any evidence of something that would have done that), but it was very impressive to watch. Thankfully there was a good amount of loose sand and dirt around to throw on the fire. It was put out without incident. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 22, 2005 Report Share Posted February 22, 2005 there are no 3gun matches in southern NY anymore, or anywhere within 300 miles of where I live now. go figure. the last ones were tossed recently. But, however you find the most (legal ) enjoyment in your shooting just have fun and don't put a hole in anything you don't want to while your spraying. everything in front of me is a target. dont stand in front of me, is all. and I have never violated the "180 degree rule" in my entire life, so if thats all they are worried about, and rounds going straight up, I would be all good. as for normal range shooting, I cant even watch friends do it. maybe you guys that go to them have to and are used to it, but i cant even see how its enjoyable at ALL to have to sit or stand there like you are in the army and act like a robot. here you get booted for faster than a round every two seconds because it is unsafe. I dont know who was at the range, but I can empty a ten shot mag in 2-3 seconds and put just about every round into the target out of most guns, and the ones that miss miss by an inch or two and hit the backstop with the rest of the rounds.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-treO8 0 Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 To bad about there being no matches in your area in NY...or is that pretty much true for the whole state? Is every type of gun limited to 10 rounds there like in CA? It's funny, as bad as CA is about G control and all, it's home of the SCSA World Steel Challenge and also a lot of what we now have for modern shooting competitions came out of that state, not all but a good chunk. Everybody I know that makes the trek West late every summer for the World Steel Championship is always worrying about getting busted with there 20+ round .40 and even higher cap 38 super mags. A 'big stick' 170mm 38 super mag can go as high as 26 rounds if you have the right follower and spring. Hell, my .45 double stack mags hold 18 rounds. I don't think there has ever been a time that I couldn't by 'replacment' parts here in Texas an use them without fear just about anywhere. I guess I take it for granted there will be a shooting match just about every weekend of the year here in Central Texas within an hour to 2 drive. Hope you get a chance to to try a competition sometime. Check out these sites: http://www.uspsa.org/ http://www.steelchallenge.com/scsa/index.htm http://www.idpa.com/menu.htm You might get lucky and find a club near you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 23, 2005 Report Share Posted February 23, 2005 my brother in law is a range master and in the idpa. he is the one who told me to stop looking into joining a club so I can start competeting, as the last ones banned the competitions due to it sounding like a warzone. Im going to have to hope something new opens up, and just keep plinking like a maniac in the woods here with people I know for now. ever do a "stick shoot"?? you hammer two 2x4's into teh ground, and each guy takes identical chamberings close as possible rifles, and sees who can chop one down first.....its pretty fun. I do it with trees currently, but am thinking to switching up to boards. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-treO8 0 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 (edited) We call'em stump shoots, but we use 4x4 fence posts down here. Usually it's a side match at a big competition, sometimes at local club match's too. $5 a head, shooters team up and race, two shooters to a post. Whoever cuts theirs in half first wins the pot. Usually with pistols, I've heard of pistol/rifle/shotgun 3 shooter team stump shoots too. How about bowling pin match's?!?! 2 shooter's at a time each 20ft from a separate 5x2 (metal) table with 5 pins lined up on the front edge of the table. Shooters start at 'low-ready' with pistol muzzle pointed at the base of the table. When the horn sounds the first shooter that knocks all 5 pins completely off the table wins. Revolvers and Auto's are evenly matched as a 6 round limit in mags is enforced, trust me people notice if you 'accidently' shoot 7 times real quick cause it's for money, $15-20 each. You can place as many mags or moonclip/speedloaders on the bench as you want and reload as many times as necessary, but going 5 for 5 is just about a guaranteed win unless the other guy can hold steady and squirt'em out faster than you. That kind of match is all about recoil control and maintaining your site picture, with both eyes open! And fast reloads! Slick avatar, that is cool. Shooting in the snow. Can't say I've done that. We get snow once every 2-5 years and we're lucky if it stays on the ground for more than 6hrs during the day. Let me guess, you probably get sick of it...right? BTW, you should do the other one with Kermit riding Miss Piggy, something Henson ever did that I know of. Kermit and the bunny is too, right? Edited February 24, 2005 by AK-treO8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 no, I love the 4 seasons, actually. It keeps my mind accurate on how much time passes. The cold doesnt bother me. I can check the mail in a snowstorm barefoot in a robe and not get cold. i went sleigh riding for the first time in hell 7 or 8 years? last weekend. man, what a blast! my ass hurt for a few days though, and i was stiff the next day from wipeouts onto my head and such. if only i had a spot I could get a good run and shoot from a sled. unsafe as hell, but its ok. nobody would be in front of me, so its my own ass that is at risk. I really dont care for gun safety past the obvious. not what shooting is to me AT ALL. The only reason I would join a range is to shoot at a few hundred yards and meet other shooters. I wanted to put more of the video into my avatar, but it would have been really unclear and way too big to upload. In the fall when I blast stuff at close range like that, you cant see two feet in front of you from all the dust that flies up. mud, leaves, rocks, whatever fly for dozens of feet in all directions. quite a sight to see the first time, and Im sure those here that do that sort of thing can testify. as for stick shooting, yeh, its a blast! typical of my sessions in the woods. you can see trees that got in my way in my avatar that became firewood or target rests.....much better than a chainsaw if you ask me. The one to the immediate left of me in the picture was done in one shot at point blank range with my saiga12 and a slug. it was pissing me off at the time, so I got walked up to it and gave it the coup-de-grace. it started my father's wood stove up in the afternoon for about a week as well, so its not like it went to waste. you cant see about any of the damage ive done in that particular spot that is in the picture, but its quite a warzone. craters, shot up metal, demolished boulders, all kinds of stuff is buried under the snow from last year. I have to clean it up this spring, as its quite a mess. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 LOL... I was SNOW SHOOTING yesterday morning!!! had the saiga .223 and .308 out... couldnt resist!!! love to watch the snow go POOF when a round hits.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-treO8 0 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 I couldn't agree more. Getting a reaction from the target, the ground, a tree, coyote, or a whitetail getting dropped is what it's all about. If I had my choice I'd shoot out on some property more too. I have access to a couple of ranches around here, but I don't get to drive out to them all that much. Good job on the gifs/avatars. I'm going to have to try that, I've got an assload of shooting footage. Matter of fact, I'm finally getting a copy of a DVD a friend of mine put together of our squad at the 2004 Texas State Limited Championship. I managed to beat all but one guy out of 35 or so in my class and won a very nice STI standard frame. Like the top one pictured on this site. http://www3.mailordercentral.com/shootings...aitem=1&mitem=1 I sold it. Probably should of held onto it but you wanna talk about pricey...geesh!! You can imagine if just the frame cost that much. Look around on that site, you'll see what I'm talking about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 i was excavating a rock in that clip, just so you know.....not just shooting the ground at random. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 It was probably a terrorist rock... or needed to be removed, because of its terrorist agenda... BAD ROCK! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 yer damn right! it was one of those evil "ill break your leg if you step on me again" rocks. it had to go. there was nothing left to it after one mag, so no pic. i was told by someone to mention this: NEVER SHOOT AT ROCKS! THEY ARE BAD! THEY SHOOT BACK SOMETIMES AND YOU WILL GET HURT! note that I am about 15 feet away from it.......think i care? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AK-treO8 0 Posted February 24, 2005 Report Share Posted February 24, 2005 (edited) I was wondering about the rock(s) shooting back. BTW, did it look at you funny or something? I've been hit hard enough to bleed a bit from hardball .40/.45 bouncing off of steel plates. Comes with the hobby. Edited February 24, 2005 by AK-treO8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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