On my own for converting

[emt1581 0]

I was at my dealer's tonight and we were talking about doing the conversion. He said he couldn't do it anytime soon because he had to spend every waking minute putting together the AK parts kits he'd bought so he can sell them before Obama bans them. He said that he wouldn't have any time to convert my S12 for quite a long time. He also said he didn't know of any smith in the area that wasn't already up to his ass in work right now.

 

Mind you this is a class III dealer and does damn fine work!

 

Then he went on to talk about the legalities/technicalities of turning it into an SBS. I said that I'd requested a form 1. He kept talking about how most smiths don't want to work on S12's because the ATF sent around a letter saying that they "strongly encouraged" a form 3 to be submitted. Then I mentioned the whole "customer/owner cuts off the length of barrel and then the smith 'fixes' it" He said that did make sense.

 

Anyways...seems like I'm on my own for doing the converting unless I want to sit on this thing for a few years and pray they aren't outlawed to convert altogether.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

[flclisgreat 0]

quit with all the yap yap, i see about 10 new threads a day by you. just go get a dremil and drill and get to it. its not hard at all, and an AK is not a complicated weapon. hell, i did my conversion with no internet access, and in a ~20* garage a week or 2 ago.

[Delta 5.56 0]

quit with all the yap yap, i see about 10 new threads a day by you. just go get a dremil and drill and get to it.

[emt1581 0]

quit with all the yap yap, i see about 10 new threads a day by you. just go get a dremil and drill and get to it. its not hard at all, and an AK is not a complicated weapon. hell, i did my conversion with no internet access, and in a ~20* garage a week or 2 ago.

 

You serious Clark?

 

-Emt1581

[SaigaNoobie 66]

Dude, it's SO EASY.

 

Dremel + Drill + http://saigatechusa.com/ or Tromix BOLT on trigger guard. + G2 Trigger group + SAW grip + Stock = Converted.

 

It doesn't take long at all. You drill out some welds and bolt everything new on.

[numbnuts 1]

If you feel that you absolutely can't do it on your own......

 

I think that there are some business partners here w/o a long wait...maybe 2-3 months....Try reaching out to them.....

[Gunfixr 76]

The pic I posted of the 8" SBS was a customer supplied Form 1. ATF told me they "suggested" but not required a Form 5. We didn't worry about it.

[7.62x39 0]

quit with all the yap yap, i see about 10 new threads a day by you. just go get a dremil and drill and get to it. its not hard at all, and an AK is not a complicated weapon. hell, i did my conversion with no internet access, and in a ~20* garage a week or 2 ago.

 

Normally I would agree with you on this, But I'm not sure I would suggest it in this case. This particular gentleman had trouble just trying to re-install his bolt carrier. He might be better off having some one do it for him.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=32784

[emt1581 0]

quit with all the yap yap, i see about 10 new threads a day by you. just go get a dremil and drill and get to it. its not hard at all, and an AK is not a complicated weapon. hell, i did my conversion with no internet access, and in a ~20* garage a week or 2 ago.

 

Normally I would agree with you on this, But I'm not sure I would suggest it in this case. This particular gentleman had trouble just trying to re-install his bolt carrier. He might be better off having some one do it for him.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=32784

 

Well hold on a sec. and let me clarify something. All of the guns you see in my sig line I could take apart and put back together blind folded. The only exception is my Ruger MKII seen in the avatar because that little bastard needs to be held at a certain angle to re-engage part of the assembly in the backstrap area of the grip. The reason why this was so difficult for me is because I let me frustraction get the best of me. As soon as I asked for help, I went down, tried it, and it worked. It wasn't difficult in the least, but I was one of those things that unless you know the answer to the question, you aren't going to figure it out that quickly on your own...which was the case for me.

 

My main concern is screwing up the finish/paint job on the outside of the receiver with the dremmel/drill/etc. I've seen it done with the step by step video on you tube. I have a nice tool collection but the two things, other than the trigger re-assignment that I'm not sure what to do about is screwing around with the gas tube (shortening if needed) and smoothing/re-threading the barrel. My dealer said that there's a bit/tool that you have to use to smooth out the inner part of the barrel that wasn't a common tool on most tool benches (forget the name). That and then the threading tool.

 

Is there a step by step thread here on converting with maybe pics, vids, etc...that also talks about going beyond just trigger/stock work?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

[ML Roak 0]

JHMO,

I'd do the pistol grip conversion ASAP so that it is grandfathered (hopefully) under a new ban when it comes around, the Saigatech or the Tromix bolt-on triggergaurd is the quickest, easiest route to go, or you can go a harder route and drill/cut you own pistol grip hole and rivet on a trigger guard of your own making, I cut regular AK guards to make mine. Nice thing with the bolt on guards, should you ever want to go the route of a full-blown riveted conversion all you have to do is unbolt the assembly and go to work. I would also recommend a folding or M4 type stock, even if you get a cheapo, just to have it around so that your gun (hopefully) gets grandfathered with such implements. As for shortening, I don't see the current politico's as even having Class 3 or the radar at this point, you probably have a little more time on that one, but if your concerned, it wouldn't hurt to do the form 1 anyway.

Like I said, JMHO.

[emt1581 0]

JHMO,

I'd do the pistol grip conversion ASAP so that it is grandfathered (hopefully) under a new ban when it comes around, the Saigatech or the Tromix bolt-on triggergaurd is the quickest, easiest route to go, or you can go a harder route and drill/cut you own pistol grip hole and rivet on a trigger guard of your own making, I cut regular AK guards to make mine. Nice thing with the bolt on guards, should you ever want to go the route of a full-blown riveted conversion all you have to do is unbolt the assembly and go to work. I would also recommend a folding or M4 type stock, even if you get a cheapo, just to have it around so that your gun (hopefully) gets grandfathered with such implements. As for shortening, I don't see the current politico's as even having Class 3 or the radar at this point, you probably have a little more time on that one, but if your concerned, it wouldn't hurt to do the form 1 anyway.

Like I said, JMHO.

 

What I was looking at that sort of caught my eye is the M4 telescopic stocks that FOLD. Those looks like a great mix of compact and adjustable!

 

Any thoughts?

 

Also, again, does anyone have links to a "do it yourself" conversion thread? Only reason I ask is because using the search function there's pages of them. Is there one or two that everyone refers to?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

[SaigaNoobie 66]

If you're worried about finish, You'd be surprised what you find under the receiver plate

 

Get the M4-Folding-Telescope if you like it!

 

Convert the gun yourself and save the SBS part for the gunsmith.

 

I did all my own conversion except the riveting of a part because I don't have the rivet capability.

[Thor's Hammer 33]

JHMO,

I'd do the pistol grip conversion ASAP so that it is grandfathered (hopefully) under a new ban when it comes around, the Saigatech or the Tromix bolt-on triggergaurd is the quickest, easiest route to go, or you can go a harder route and drill/cut you own pistol grip hole and rivet on a trigger guard of your own making, I cut regular AK guards to make mine. Nice thing with the bolt on guards, should you ever want to go the route of a full-blown riveted conversion all you have to do is unbolt the assembly and go to work. I would also recommend a folding or M4 type stock, even if you get a cheapo, just to have it around so that your gun (hopefully) gets grandfathered with such implements. As for shortening, I don't see the current politico's as even having Class 3 or the radar at this point, you probably have a little more time on that one, but if your concerned, it wouldn't hurt to do the form 1 anyway.

Like I said, JMHO.

 

Of course it is all speculation at this point in time, but your comments do bring up a question that has been puzzeling me.

 

In your scenario how are they to prove when the conversion was done? Do you suppose that they will expect registration? Is that how it went down prior to the first AWB? I understand the situation for the commercial builder, but what about all the people that have already legally built up an AK kit from a flat? As I read the law there is no requirement for registration for personal ownership of a presently legal home-built firearm. With the exception of if it is later transferred to another individual.

[rocinante 100]

The only exception is my Ruger MKII seen in the avatar because that little bastard needs to be held at a certain angle to re-engage part of the assembly in the backstrap area of the grip.

 

Tell me about it. My MKII 22/45 is the only gun I am scared to clean. I gummed it up so bad once I couldn't get it open.

 

Really friend do your own basic conversion. I don't know about doing an SBS but it is not that difficult and folks here will answer your questions even if some think you have too much volume. I did my S12 and my rifle. The S12 is easier than the rifle because you don't have to futz with a bullet guide or mess with the magazine catch.

[Russtang 0]

Is there a step by step thread here on converting with maybe pics, vids, etc...that also talks about going beyond just trigger/stock work?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

 

After reading up on it for the last couple weeks, I decided to go for the conversion. I'm using this tutorial:

 

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm

 

along with Cobra's great writeup here:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=5178

 

I removed the furniture & stripped the receiver down last night. Just need to make the pistol grip hole, forward trigger guard hole, refinish the receiver bottom, and she's ready for parts (The last of the parts should show up tomorrow). I ordered a Tapco collapsing m4 style stock/PG, Tapco G2 FCG, side rail, and a loose rail I plan on mounting to the foregrip. She should be converted and ready for quail hunting Saturday morning.

 

They had a very thin peened over end, so I just punched out the rear rivets without drilling them down first (while supporting the receiver from behind of course). They will be reinstalled later to plug the holes.

 

I've seriously only used a dremel (with a couple grinding wheels), punch, hammer, screwdriver, and drill press and that's it. Took me about an hour to strip everything down, remove the blankoff plate from the receiver, and then the trigger guard from the plate (I plan on reusing the guard and the safety stop tab).

 

So far, it's been a piece of cake. Just do it!

 

Russ

Edited December 11, 2008 by Russtang

[emt1581 0]

Is there a step by step thread here on converting with maybe pics, vids, etc...that also talks about going beyond just trigger/stock work?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

 

After reading up on it for the last couple weeks, I decided to go for the conversion. I'm using this tutorial:

 

http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/index.htm

 

along with Cobra's great writeup here:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=5178

 

I removed the furniture & stripped the receiver down last night. Just need to make the pistol grip hole, forward trigger guard hole, refinish the receiver bottom, and she's ready for parts (The last of the parts should show up tomorrow). I ordered a Tapco collapsing m4 style stock/PG, Tapco G2 FCG, side rail, and a loose rail I plan on mounting to the foregrip. She should be converted and ready for quail hunting Saturday morning.

 

They had a very thin peened over end, so I just punched out the rear rivets without drilling them down first (while supporting the receiver from behind of course). They will be reinstalled later to plug the holes.

 

I've seriously only used a dremel (with a couple grinding wheels), punch, hammer, screwdriver, and drill press and that's it. Took me about an hour to strip everything down, remove the blankoff plate from the receiver, and then the trigger guard from the plate (I plan on reusing the guard and the safety stop tab).

 

So far, it's been a piece of cake. Just do it!

 

Russ

 

Sounds like I have a new hobby gun for a while.

 

It all started with my MKII, then was the 10/22, then the Ar-15 (started with a stripped lower and got a custom upper from Del-ton), so next it'll be the S12. The S12 is a new level of invasive for me so this should be fun!!

 

Is there anything that is really delicate or absolutely crucial that you can't screw up??...maybe common errors first timers make?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

[Russtang 0]

Sounds like I have a new hobby gun for a while.

 

It all started with my MKII, then was the 10/22, then the Ar-15 (started with a stripped lower and got a custom upper from Del-ton), so next it'll be the S12. The S12 is a new level of invasive for me so this should be fun!!

 

Whoa. You sound like you might be my long lost twin. Got a couple of mark 2s (yours looks nice, BTW), a 10-22, and a S-12 too. Picked up a stripped Sun Devil billet lower at the gun show last weekend and just ordered my custom upper from Del-ton a couple days ago! I got others of course, but those are my current favorites.

 

Is there anything that is really delicate or absolutely crucial that you can't screw up??...maybe common errors first timers make?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

 

I've only done this one so far, but it's all seemed pretty straightforward. We'll see how it all goes together! Grinding, cutting, and drilling a hole or two is really all of it. Read through the tutorials and you'll see it's not that difficult if you know your way around a dremel and a drill press.

 

Russ

[emt1581 0]

Sounds like I have a new hobby gun for a while.

 

It all started with my MKII, then was the 10/22, then the Ar-15 (started with a stripped lower and got a custom upper from Del-ton), so next it'll be the S12. The S12 is a new level of invasive for me so this should be fun!!

 

Whoa. You sound like you might be my long lost twin. Got a couple of mark 2s (yours looks nice, BTW), a 10-22, and a S-12 too. Picked up a stripped Sun Devil billet lower at the gun show last weekend and just ordered my custom upper from Del-ton a couple days ago! I got others of course, but those are my current favorites.

 

Is there anything that is really delicate or absolutely crucial that you can't screw up??...maybe common errors first timers make?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

 

I've only done this one so far, but it's all seemed pretty straightforward. We'll see how it all goes together! Grinding, cutting, and drilling a hole or two is really all of it. Read through the tutorials and you'll see it's not that difficult if you know your way around a dremel and a drill press.

 

Russ

 

Sweet! I love my AR! One huge complaint is with this screwed up Superior Arms lower. It's great quality as in the material but the thing doesn't like PMags. I have to file them down just to use them. I was thinking of buying another lower and switching it out but then the S12 caught my eye so here I am!

 

Thanks for the info!

 

-Emt1581

[mechsterbator 0]

if you do decide to do it yourself, get past the fear of screwing up the finish. as saiganoobie stated, under the trigger guard plate that's riveted onto the receiver (what you remove to convert) is bare, unfinished metal. you're going to need to get some sort of finish product of your own. duracoat is good stuff, but i've seen people use BBQ paint.

[emt1581 0]

if you do decide to do it yourself, get past the fear of screwing up the finish. as saiganoobie stated, under the trigger guard plate that's riveted onto the receiver (what you remove to convert) is bare, unfinished metal. you're going to need to get some sort of finish product of your own. duracoat is good stuff, but i've seen people use BBQ paint.

 

As long as I'm not finding rust, no biggie.

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

[bayonet lug 1]

Converting is very easy. I have done 3 so far, and Im very young.

[Gunfixr 76]

Converting is easy, and I'm not going to tell you you can't do it yourself. But for anybody who thinks you can make an 8" SBS S12 with a Dremel, and electric drill and some files might want to rethink that. The gas block is going to have to be moved back, and the barrel will have to be turned down to accomplish this. Then the gas tube, which can be fudged with ahacksaw and files, if you're real careful. But then comes the bolt carrier.

[bayonet lug 1]

Converting is easy, and I'm not going to tell you you can't do it yourself. But for anybody who thinks you can make an 8" SBS S12 with a Dremel, and electric drill and some files might want to rethink that. The gas block is going to have to be moved back, and the barrel will have to be turned down to accomplish this. Then the gas tube, which can be fudged with ahacksaw and files, if you're real careful. But then comes the bolt carrier.

Don't try this at home kids.

[emt1581 0]

Converting is easy, and I'm not going to tell you you can't do it yourself. But for anybody who thinks you can make an 8" SBS S12 with a Dremel, and electric drill and some files might want to rethink that. The gas block is going to have to be moved back, and the barrel will have to be turned down to accomplish this. Then the gas tube, which can be fudged with ahacksaw and files, if you're real careful. But then comes the bolt carrier.

 

So you are saying to convert isn't bad, but to shorten to 8" I should use a professional, correct?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

[7.62x39 0]

Sweet! I love my AR! One huge complaint is with this screwed up Superior Arms lower. It's great quality as in the material but the thing doesn't like PMags. I have to file them down just to use them. I was thinking of buying another lower and switching it out but then the S12 caught my eye so here I am!

 

Thanks for the info!

 

-Emt1581

 

If by Pmags you mean promags, I would bet you dollars to donuts, that the problem is the mags not the receiver. Promags are crap.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Converting is easy, and I'm not going to tell you you can't do it yourself. But for anybody who thinks you can make an 8" SBS S12 with a Dremel, and electric drill and some files might want to rethink that. The gas block is going to have to be moved back, and the barrel will have to be turned down to accomplish this. Then the gas tube, which can be fudged with ahacksaw and files, if you're real careful. But then comes the bolt carrier.

 

So you are saying to convert isn't bad, but to shorten to 8" I should use a professional, correct?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

 

That, or get a new roomate named bubba at Club Fed....

[emt1581 0]

Converting is easy, and I'm not going to tell you you can't do it yourself. But for anybody who thinks you can make an 8" SBS S12 with a Dremel, and electric drill and some files might want to rethink that. The gas block is going to have to be moved back, and the barrel will have to be turned down to accomplish this. Then the gas tube, which can be fudged with ahacksaw and files, if you're real careful. But then comes the bolt carrier.

 

So you are saying to convert isn't bad, but to shorten to 8" I should use a professional, correct?

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

 

That, or get a new roomate named bubba at Club Fed....

 

Wait, what??

 

We're talking about smith work.

 

-Emt1581

[Gunfixr 76]

With a Form 1 you won't have to worry about Bubba, but getting the work done is beyond just hand tools.

 

So yes, you can convert it yourself, but you should seek the aid of a professional for the SBS work, whether or not you go Form 1 or Form 4, unless you are a machinist with access to the equipment.

[emt1581 0]

With a Form 1 you won't have to worry about Bubba, but getting the work done is beyond just hand tools.

 

So yes, you can convert it yourself, but you should seek the aid of a professional for the SBS work, whether or not you go Form 1 or Form 4, unless you are a machinist with access to the equipment.

 

 

Right, and what I'm thinking is that I'll do what I can and complete the conversion on my own. Then I'll send it/take it somewhere to let a professional, who knows what they are doing and has the right tools for the job, work on it. What I'm finding out though is very few smiths want to screw around with a Saiga 12. When I mention about shortening the gas tube and turning it into an 8" barrel they seem to shy away from the job even taking into account that they can't even get to my gun for a few months at the minimum.

 

Anyone else notice this?

 

AR's/Revolvers/hunting rifles/etc....no problem. Mention a Saiga 12 and I get a "oh um yeah I know a guy who worked on one of those once but I've never done one".

 

Like I said before, there is a smith around here I'd trust because the guy's amazing, but he's also the one that said a lot of smith's will shy away due to the various forms that AFT confuses them with.

 

But since I don't even have the form 1 yet, and assume it'll be at least a month until I get it in the mail, I'll just focus on the conversion for now.

 

Thanks!

 

-Emt1581

[emt1581 0]

Sweet! I love my AR! One huge complaint is with this screwed up Superior Arms lower. It's great quality as in the material but the thing doesn't like PMags. I have to file them down just to use them. I was thinking of buying another lower and switching it out but then the S12 caught my eye so here I am!

 

Thanks for the info!

 

-Emt1581

 

If by Pmags you mean promags, I would bet you dollars to donuts, that the problem is the mags not the receiver. Promags are crap.

 

You sure about that? I've seen PMags put through rediculous torture tests that blow the traditional mags out of the water!

 

-Emt1581