shotguns and lazers

[Parf 19]

Lazers belong on sharks heads.

 

 

Ohh, and J-Frames.

[gmorgan 2]

Question...why do we use a mouse with our computers ? Answer a point and click interface is a very fast and very accurate method to acquire a target be it a windows icon or a 300lb crackhead...same physical and mental process.

 

A laser is nothing more than a point and click interface targeting aid with three easy steps

 

1. eye/dot combination to target,

 

2. pull trigger,

 

3. BOOM

 

and move to the next target, your head is up at all times scanning for additional threats/targets and not fucking around looking for a damn sight picture while the OTHER zombie punches your ticket.

 

Now some of you like a laser some don't....I do and I have been on the street and in the desert for over 30 years one way or the other and I really don't give a ratfuck what anybody else likes...it works for me, end of story.

 

Now all you mall ninja's who wanna argue about who's dick is bigger go right ahead, it makes for amusing reading (always did like a circus with clowns in it), but as for me ANYTHING that gives me an edge on the BG is a good thing and if I wanna load my launcher down with a laser, flashlight, red dot, flip down irons, vertical hand grip and lightsaber bayonet rail combo then I will and if you don't like it then STFU and do your own thing and be happy.

 

Oh and BTW have a nice day.

Edited May 23, 2009 by gmorgan

[A307 0]

A307 that was a pretty funny post. Are you able to flash gang signs with both hands at the same time while showing a gold tooth?

 

 

 

No Tutmos I can't, but I can flash a gold badge and a 45 at the same time pretty effectively.

 

The rest of your cute verbiage, shock treatment bs, and going somewhere else argument deleted.

 

The whole thing about searching by yourself for an armed bad guy is a bad idea to start with. To think that a laser on your shotgun in that situation gives you a real tactical advantage is faulty. Unless you live by yourself in some kind of free fire zone you have to ID whatever it is you want to shoot first. That means some kind of light, again searching by yourself is a real bad idea especially in the dark. Being able to use the laser to aim and shoot from some odd angle is a neat trick but doing that in a real situation is unlikely not to mention the fact that you should keep your weapon tucked in close and held tight especially in the dark unless you want it jerked out of your hands. I could go on and on but these discussions are useless, every situation that can be described can be countered by another tactic and it goes on and on. I'll keep my shotgun simple and fast and you can add all the tacticool stuff to yours you want.

[Crusader 64]

I think a real advantage for defense situations, because it makes both you and the other guy way more aware of where your gun is aimed.

According to research cited by the crimson trace website (completely objective naturally), lasers in police situations have greatly lessened the need to actually fire.

 

I think there is a lot of merit to that.

You are just gonna take someone more seriously when there is a dot on the end of your nose. It gives you a chance to rethink your behavior.

+1. Escallation of Force (EOF).

[Tutmos 0]

No Tutmos I can't, but I can flash a gold badge and a 45 at the same time pretty effectively.

 

I guess that explains why you didn't have the ability to pursue a career in the sciences. I carry a .45 as well and I don't have to wear polyester pants.

 

The rest of your cute verbiage, shock treatment bs, and going somewhere else argument deleted.

 

I'm sorry I'll use smaller words for you in the future, maybe then you won't define the appropriate terminology as "cute verbiage." With respect to "shock treatment bs," What are you f'ing Ahmish? How is it you managed to turn a computer on? Must be a Mac. I realize the reality of science is hard for you to grasp, but it is the way your body works, no matter how hard you squint your eyes and click your heels together. Because you don't understand it and think you can brush it off as bs doesn't mean it's not true. What your problem is is that you don't understand the distinction between your perception and reality. Spin yourself in a circle on a chair for 30 seconds with your eyes closed and stop the chair while keeping your eyes closed, you'll feel like your spinning in the other direction for about 10 seconds, that doesn't mean you are.

 

Obviously you got stuck on some big words and didn't manage to finish reading my post because I explained the need to use a light to positively ID what you're shooting at and the unfortunate part of it killing dark adaptation, hence the conversation about how your vision works. Scroll up you'll see that. Notwithstanding that your free fire zone comment really made you sound like an authority though, bravo.

 

The whole thing about searching by yourself for an armed bad guy is a bad idea to start with. To think that a laser on your shotgun in that situation gives you a real tactical advantage is faulty.

 

Maybe this is why you ended up where you did in life, but I think you're missing the entire point. Because someone has a laser on a gun doesn't mean that it is the only way they can aim the gun or that they cannot use a flashlight or turn the lights on. It's an additional tool, it works with the lights on ya know. There's plenty of data out there supporting faster target aquisition with a laser than without and especially in low light conditions and since you're not an Agent from the Matrix and won't be dodging bullets any time soon the first person accurately on target is likely to be the person still alive in the end. The time it takes you to recognize a face is a matter of milliseconds, a pretty amazing process, but the point is it won't be a substantial part of this problem. So with a laser you still have the intuitive feel for where the gun is pointed, can still use rudimentary irons if you want, it does nothing but adds to you available options.

 

Unless you live by yourself in some kind of free fire zone you have to ID whatever it is you want to shoot first. That means some kind of light, again searching by yourself is a real bad idea especially in the dark. Being able to use the laser to aim and shoot from some odd angle is a neat trick but doing that in a real situation is unlikely not to mention the fact that you should keep your weapon tucked in close and held tight especially in the dark unless you want it jerked out of your hands.

 

At what point did you see it mentioned that using a laser means the weapon won't be held tightly to your body? It just means you don't have to keep your cheek pressed tightly to the stock at all times. The reality is the higher up your weapon and arms are the higher your center of gravity and the less stable you are overall if you're worried about someone jumping on you.

 

In my own home if I think someone has broken into my house I send the dogs in before me and turn on every light in the house as I go from room to room. I'm not going to cower in a corner hoping someone will get there in time to save my family or that the bad men will just go away. If I find someone I don't know in my house stealing etc. I'm going to kill them. That is what the law calls for where I live. Burglary of an occupied dwelling is a felony and deadly force is lawful to stop any criminal felony within ones place of abode. The castle doctrine is the foundation of our country, a mans home is his castle and he has a right to protect it. Remember, when seconds count the police are only minutes away. Police do not exist to protect everyone. It's not possible and it's stupid to think they are. Police are there to clean up and catch the people that have broken the law after the fact so they can be punished for doing it.

[crackback 135]

No Tutmos I can't, but I can flash a gold badge and a 45 at the same time pretty effectively.

 

I guess that explains why you didn't have the ability to pursue a career in the sciences. I carry a .45 as well and I don't have to wear polyester pants.

 

The rest of your cute verbiage, shock treatment bs, and going somewhere else argument deleted.

 

I'm sorry I'll use smaller words for you in the future, maybe then you won't define the appropriate terminology as "cute verbiage." With respect to "shock treatment bs," What are you f'ing Ahmish? How is it you managed to turn a computer on? Must be a Mac. I realize the reality of science is hard for you to grasp, but it is the way your body works, no matter how hard you squint your eyes and click your heels together. Because you don't understand it and think you can brush it off as bs doesn't mean it's not true. What your problem is is that you don't understand the distinction between your perception and reality. Spin yourself in a circle on a chair for 30 seconds with your eyes closed and stop the chair while keeping your eyes closed, you'll feel like your spinning in the other direction for about 10 seconds, that doesn't mean you are.

 

Obviously you got stuck on some big words and didn't manage to finish reading my post because I explained the need to use a light to positively ID what you're shooting at and the unfortunate part of it killing dark adaptation, hence the conversation about how your vision works. Scroll up you'll see that. Notwithstanding that your free fire zone comment really made you sound like an authority though, bravo.

 

The whole thing about searching by yourself for an armed bad guy is a bad idea to start with. To think that a laser on your shotgun in that situation gives you a real tactical advantage is faulty.

 

Maybe this is why you ended up where you did in life, but I think you're missing the entire point. Because someone has a laser on a gun doesn't mean that it is the only way they can aim the gun or that they cannot use a flashlight or turn the lights on. It's an additional tool, it works with the lights on ya know. There's plenty of data out there supporting faster target aquisition with a laser than without and especially in low light conditions and since you're not an Agent from the Matrix and won't be dodging bullets any time soon the first person accurately on target is likely to be the person still alive in the end. The time it takes you to recognize a face is a matter of milliseconds, a pretty amazing process, but the point is it won't be a substantial part of this problem. So with a laser you still have the intuitive feel for where the gun is pointed, can still use rudimentary irons if you want, it does nothing but adds to you available options.

 

Unless you live by yourself in some kind of free fire zone you have to ID whatever it is you want to shoot first. That means some kind of light, again searching by yourself is a real bad idea especially in the dark. Being able to use the laser to aim and shoot from some odd angle is a neat trick but doing that in a real situation is unlikely not to mention the fact that you should keep your weapon tucked in close and held tight especially in the dark unless you want it jerked out of your hands.

 

At what point did you see it mentioned that using a laser means the weapon won't be held tightly to your body? It just means you don't have to keep your cheek pressed tightly to the stock at all times. The reality is the higher up your weapon and arms are the higher your center of gravity and the less stable you are overall if you're worried about someone jumping on you.

 

In my own home if I think someone has broken into my house I send the dogs in before me and turn on every light in the house as I go from room to room. I'm not going to cower in a corner hoping someone will get there in time to save my family or that the bad men will just go away. If I find someone I don't know in my house stealing etc. I'm going to kill them. That is what the law calls for where I live. Burglary of an occupied dwelling is a felony and deadly force is lawful to stop any criminal felony within ones place of abode. The castle doctrine is the foundation of our country, a mans home is his castle and he has a right to protect it. Remember, when seconds count the police are only minutes away. Police do not exist to protect everyone. It's not possible and it's stupid to think they are. Police are there to cleanup and catch the people that have broken the law after the fact so they can be punished for doing it.

 

Tutmos, while I am also aware of the physiologic dark adaptation response and appreciate your detailed explanation of it and therefore can understand your position in favor of lasers , I do not care for your arrogant attitude e.g "I guess that explains why you didn't have the ability to pursue a career in the sciences. I carry a .45 as well and I don't have to wear polyester pants."and disparagement of someone in the LE community ( I am assuming here AE307 ,correct me if I am wrong) who puts his life on the line everyday "Maybe this is why you ended up where you did in life..."

 

"Ended up in life"? Maybe he chose that profession, perhaps LE is in his blood and is his calling. Whether or not it is your intention, you are implying that a job in LE is a place for failures. By extension, do you feel this way about our enlisted men and women in the armed forces?

 

You come off at best sounding like a pedantic medical student that is also firearms owner. I respect the opinions of anybody with real world experience like those I know and train with personally and here on this and other boards, especially those good folks in the LE and MIL communities (active or retired).

Edited May 25, 2009 by 690gr

[XXasdf 29]

Man the drama, I thought TNT was where drama lived . Anyways I personally prefer a light on my S12, but its all about preference. I lack proper lighting in certain parts of my home so it would definitely help if I hear a noise in the middle of the night and want to check it out. Also can't we discuss our opinions without being disrespectful to each other? My $.02 but due to inflation total value = $.01 .