scoutjoe 276 Posted February 7, 2009 Report Share Posted February 7, 2009 Alright, so I've done some reading and as much looking as I can over on rimfire central and arf without memberships. I'm trying to get my WASR-22 to eject shells better and feed the 29rd Black dog machine mags Arf lead me to start turning the screw on the bottom of the bolt, to increase tension on the extractor. They are also talking about taking the bolt apart....that I can't seem to do and that screw just spins around on the bottom of my bolt. Arf thread http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=4&...5495&page=1 I was going to try to fix the feed problem using dummy .22 rounds, but they arn't feeding right in the magazines (10rd stock or 29rd black dog machine mags) So basically I'm looking for any suggestions on this one. Ideas? This gun should be too much fun to sit in the safe. I think Indy and Dinzag have these guns, not sure who else out there... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted February 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2009 Got the bolt apart, cleaned everything up. The extractor has a fair amount of "wobble" in it and the spring seems kinda weak compared to my 10/22 bolt. Alright so I had the gun out last weekend at a shoot. Polished up the bolt and the hammer and I have much better feeding (with stock mag only) but with the top cover on I'm still getting lousy extraction. So what I'm thinking about doing is cannibalizing a 10/22 extractor spring and putting it in the bolt. For people who have a whole bunch more experience than me, is this a bad idea? There are some guys over on AR15 who had to make a new extractor (apparently parts don't exist for this). I'd rather not have to do that since I don't think I'm that good. The springs in question are below, the smaller one being the WASR-22 extractor spring and the larger one being a standard 10/22 extractor spring. Bueller? Bueller? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surly 11 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 If it gets the better of you, get in touch with me and I can look at your bolt (if you don't mind being without it for a few weeks) and I'll see what I can do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 You have one Surly? They seem to be a uncommon gun, so I'm having trouble finding information on them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MD_Willington 11 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 WASR 22 uncommon? There are quite a few of them at the AK Forum. The Black Dog mags seem to work quite well... Turns out the guys that own the company, their brother is my coworker, small world eh! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted February 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 I can't get the Black Dogs to feed to save my life, right now I'd settle for extractor issue working Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surly 11 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 You have one Surly? They seem to be a uncommon gun, so I'm having trouble finding information on them. I don't have one, but I can work out your extractor problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6x6pinz 4 Posted February 13, 2009 Report Share Posted February 13, 2009 don't know why but some say they replace the dust cover and then adjust the ejector spring to help with ejection. I have never had any trouble with mine and I use several of the black dog mags with great success. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted February 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Top cover has been replaced, I haven't shot it with that one on yet. I've played with the screw on the bottom of the bolt, but I haven't used locktite on it. I think my gun is "special", once I get the extraction thing down packed I'll worry about the Black Dog Machine mags. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Dinzag has Blackdog mags: http://dinzagarms.com/mags/mags.html , all the way at the bottom. I'm not sure if he has any actually in stock, though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted February 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Dinzag has Blackdog mags: http://dinzagarms.com/mags/mags.html , all the way at the bottom. I'm not sure if he has any actually in stock, though. Yup I got mine there. I'm sure that the problem is in my gun, not the mags Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Dinzag has Blackdog mags: http://dinzagarms.com/mags/mags.html , all the way at the bottom. I'm not sure if he has any actually in stock, though. Yup I got mine there. I'm sure that the problem is in my gun, not the mags My bad. I read your other post as "I can't get Black Dog mags to save my life", I missed the word "feed" in there . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Mine has only had about a hundred rounds through it... and so far, I have had only one or two failure to ejects... all the rest... ZIIIING... right on out the side without a hiccup... Now I have jinxed myself, for sure! LOL I dont see what I can add to this... sorry... I am not that familiar with mine yet... I havent shot it that much yet... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
.308Caliber 1 Posted March 7, 2009 Report Share Posted March 7, 2009 Does anyone know who has one of these in stock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Genocide 0 Posted March 10, 2009 Report Share Posted March 10, 2009 I'd like to know too, they're hard to find now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryanjudysports 0 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) I'd like to know too, they're hard to find now. do you guys have some pics of the bolt assembly? I have 7 wasr 22's that are missing the extractor and spring. If someone could post a detailed diagram or send me a cardboard or wood mock i will make some for the group. -ryan 5032608832 Edited March 22, 2009 by loyor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted March 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 I'd like to know too, they're hard to find now. do you guys have some pics of the bolt assembly? I have 7 wasr 22's that are missing the extractor and spring. If someone could post a detailed diagram or send me a cardboard or wood mock i will make some for the group. -ryan 5032608832 I'll get you some pics and can send you a cutout of mine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Superhawk138 202 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) Maybe we get lucky and RAA gets a hold of some of these. Saiga .22 Edited March 22, 2009 by Superhawk138 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted March 24, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2009 So...good? bad? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryanjudysports 0 Posted March 25, 2009 Report Share Posted March 25, 2009 So...good? bad? These pics are good but i need a drawing with the part mic'd out. with the shadow it looks to be around .5 inches long .25 inches wide and .125 inches thick. If you have a micrometer can you send me the measurments? Im pretty sure the critical distance is from bolt head to the extractor. so all of my other measurements will have to be very precise. Is there a possibility i could borrow your extractor so i can copy it? I will even pay a local gunsmith near you to copy it for me. I also need to have some pics of how the extractor is anchored with the screw and the length of the spring used on yours. thanks so much, ryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted March 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Lemme see if I can find somebody local to make one, I wouldn't mind having a spare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Surly 11 Posted March 28, 2009 Report Share Posted March 28, 2009 That looks really close to a 10/22 type extractor. Have you tried to interchange one? If not, you should. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted March 29, 2009 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2009 That looks really close to a 10/22 type extractor. Have you tried to interchange one? If not, you should. Nope, I can pull the 10/22 out and give it a shot but generally I try to refrain from replacing parts on gun A with parts from gun B unless they're in the same "family" I'm fighting with the "sling loop" on the thumbhole stock trying to figure out how it comes apart right now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chrissmallwood 0 Posted March 30, 2009 Report Share Posted March 30, 2009 (edited) That looks really close to a 10/22 type extractor. Have you tried to interchange one? If not, you should. Nope, I can pull the 10/22 out and give it a shot but generally I try to refrain from replacing parts on gun A with parts from gun B unless they're in the same "family" I'm fighting with the "sling loop" on the thumbhole stock trying to figure out how it comes apart right now. You just have to compress the springs on the buttplate which will give you room to remove the sling loop. The shaft that it is mounted to is part of the buttplate. Its a pain in the butt to do by yourself so have someone press down on the stock while you remove the clip. Word of warning though, once you get it off its a b@#$! to get back on. I also looked at a picture of a 10/22 extractor and the extractor on my Wasr22 and they dont look like they would interchange. Edit- I tried to swap the extractors on my 10/22 and my Wasr22 and they wont fit. The 10/22's extractor is thinner and longer. Edited March 30, 2009 by chrissmallwood Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted April 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 No dice on my local smith making them, due to the hardening process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ninja99 0 Posted April 2, 2009 Report Share Posted April 2, 2009 (edited) I can't get the Black Dogs to feed to save my life, right now I'd settle for extractor issue working I would actually do the opposite. Work on the feeding problem so you can shoot the gun. You really don't need the extractor unless you'll be extracting live rounds. Even then, tilting the gun toward the sky will allow the round to fall out. The force of the round going off will kick the empty out. Once it will feed and shoot, then mess with the extractor. Can you describe you feeding problems with the factory mags and with the BDM mags? Edited April 2, 2009 by ninja99 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ryanjudysports 0 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 (edited) No dice on my local smith making them, due to the hardening process. I can hardened myself. just need a place to start from. I have the machine digrams from another guy. do you have any good pics of the bolt/extractor installed? i need to know some details on the screw used too. thx, ryan extractor.doc Edited April 3, 2009 by loyor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cellsworth 21 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I have a WASR-22. At first, I had problems with empty casings rattling around in the receiver. Enlarging the ejection port substantially solved that problem. I had major problems with the BDM mags feeding too. I switched to CCI Mini Mag copper-plated round nose ammo, and they now feed much better. The key seems to be using ammo with bullets that have a "sleek" profile. Bullets with more of a blunt tip usually do not work well. I may be wrong, but my understanding is that the cam screw on the bottom of the bolt assembly simply adjusts how close the extractor claw is to the bolt face to account for differences in the rim thicknesses of ammo made for the U.S. vs the European market. The reason the screw mainly just spins without tightening is that the adjustment is meant to have just two positions: closer and farther. Now that I have cleaned and lubricated the gun thoroughly, enlarged the ejection port, and switched to the CCI Mini Mag CRN ammo, the gun runs at almost 100%. Maybe I was just lucky. Good luck with yours! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Top Dog 0 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) I have owned my WASR-22 for several years. Since day one it has had ejection problems. I took it to a local gunsmith, and he put a stronger spring in it. This did not correct the problem. Putting a stock AK reciever cover helped, but once again did not fix it. About two weeks ago my friend was shooting it when apparently a round didn't make it all the way in the barrel, and BOOM!! It blew the extractor completely out of the gun. Needless to say I could not find it. Thankfully the detents, spring, and adjuster were still there. After realizing trying to buy a new extractor was impossible, I made one out of 1/8" cold rolled steel. Using the pics listed in this topic I got the basic dimensions. The distance between where the extractor fits in the bolt (round) and the claw is most critical. If this is not right I felt it would never work. After getting that distance correct, I began to work on the rest of the shape of the extractor. Many hours of filing and trial fitting, I felt good that it would work. I hardened it by heating it cherry red then dipping it in motor oil, then heated it to 300 degrees and let it air cool. After that I polished the claw. So far my gun is working GREAT! I have had good sucess using CCI Blazer ammo due to the rounded shape of the bullet. (I think) The hardest part was to get the shape of the claw tip to fit into its slot next to the barrel opening. I did not want to take off any more material than necessary because I felt it would weaken it. Also when I would trial fit the extractor in the gun, I would assembly it NOT using the spring adjuster because of the extra pressure it causes. I wainted for final assembly for that. I have no gunsmithing experience until now. I felt that making the extractor was my only shot at fixing my AK-22, otherwise the gun was prettty much useless. Thanks for you guys info and pics, because without this info I would not have had a starting point. I hopefully uploaded a pic of the parts that make the extractor work. If you lost your detents, they can be made from the shank of an 1/8" drill bit. AS you can see one is pointed, (goes toward the adjuster) the other is flat on 1/2 of the end (holds the extractor on place). I feel that I owed the group this info so hopefully you can fix your WASR-22 like I did. Finally I feel that Loyor is wasting his time having some exact copies of the original extractor made. I am in now way picking on him, I admire his efforts. It is my opinion is that there is a flaw in how the original extractor is made, (the point of the claw does not have enough surface area to extract the spent shell) otherwise the gun would shoot correctly out of the box along with some other issues (not enough open area on the reciever cover, lack of spring tension,ect). Hopefully this post will help you fix your WASR-22. If I can do it, you can too! Got to go burn some ammo. Good Luck Greg Edited April 5, 2009 by Big George 79 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Well... I have nothing in regards to the extractor to add... However, I just got done fitting a MARLIN magazine inside one of the factory 10 rounders. The factory 10 rounder is made of cheap plastic, and the feed lip is probably the weakest link of the whole design... needless to say I had a feed lip break off... translated... You cannot load ANY ammo into the magazine. in another WASR22 thread someone said to try a marlin magazine... so that's what I did... went to the local Bass Pro shops. Bought a 10 round marlin 22 LR magazine... got home with it, took the factory mag apart... looked at the pieces... and started to meditate on my Dremel-Fu. The WASR factory magazine is composed of a 10 round plastic magazine inside two halves of a magazine "insert", Which I presume is only to retain the little magazine at the proper spacing for correct functionality...which is then slipped inside the magazine body. a Screw then holds the magazine insert from movement. I first had to remove the floor plate from the Marlin magazine... holy shit... they dont want them to pop off accidentally... took pliers to get it to pull off! Then I had to figure out how much to remove to get the bottom to match the factory contours... I had to cut a small amount of the bottom of the Marlin magazine off and it seemed to be the right amount on the first try... I then took the WASR floorplate and trimmed it down to fit inside the marlin magazine... I got it so its a nice snug friction fit. I returned the follower and spring into the Marlin mag, popped in the WASR floorplate... and it was all set. Put that into the magazine housing insert of the WASR mag assembly... and compared it to the other factory magazine. It was pretty damned close... the only problem I had was that the marlin magazine was able to slide up and out of the assembly, as the BASE of the WASR factory mag has a small lip which fits into a groove in the insert housing, keeping the whole thing in place... Now I needed a way to keep the Marlin mag at the full depth in the housing insert... I took it all back apart and drilled a small hole through both halves of the insert, at the same point that the marlin mag has holes in the bottom... and ran a small steel rod through the Marlin magazine and the insert halves, which properly functioned to keep the marlin magazine at the proper depth in the magazine insert. I replaced the insert into the factory mag body, and again checked against the other factory magazine to see if I had the correct height. It looked to be right on... the only thing I noticed NOW was that the Marlin magazine tended to have some side to side play in it... I didnt like that... so I took it all back apart again... and with a few inches of electrical tape, I wrapped the Marlin magazine just below where it fit against the opper portion of the magazine insert. this successfully removed any side to side play. I put it all back together... loaded it up... it would only hold 8 rounds... as the bar in the bottom must keep the follower from going all the way down... but still...8 is better than 0! I tried to cycle the rounds by hand... It seemed to load them without any problems, but it seemed to have trouble extracting the rounds once chambered... ( See the rest of this thread... GO FIGURE! ) However, I am confident that once actually SHOOTING this, it should function properly, as I had no problems with mine extracting ammo when firing live rounds... If not... I will be back to give more range report updates at that time! We will see! BTW... there' s another thread on this with some interesting info as well here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=36240 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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