SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I was going to get an 8-32 bolt/nut combo and stick it through and bolt the end but a 10-32 is JUST about right. I was thinking for permanent, tapping the hole for 10-32 threads and putting a bolt in it. Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skifast 2 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I just ground enough off to have to tap it home. It is not going anywhere. It cut off both ends, so it looks like a pin. I think the look of a screw or bolt head would bother me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) An assortment of AK-74 series muzzle devices. (left to right): (1) Russian AKS-74U, featuring muzzle booster expansion chamber and cone hider; (2) Romanian AK-74 muzzle brake, with no gas vent slits and smaller diameter; (3) German MPiAK-74N muzzle brake, featuring Russian "zigzag" design gas vents and shiny black enamel finish; (4) Bulgarian AK-74 brake with two piece construction circular gas vents (similar to latest Russian design for AK-74M/AK-100); (5) Russian AK-74 late Afghan era "zigzag pattern; and (6) Polish KbK wz.88 featuring grenade launching capability. From http://tantal.kalashnikov.guns.ru/ This is a "two piece" "c-cut" or "half moon" type Ak74 brake. The Bulgarians stayed with this type throughout their AK74 production. The reason it's called a "2 piece" brake is that the outer shell was milled and then a central plug was pressed in to create the distinctive crescent openings on the face. You historians can check all the different brakes used by the Russians over the years here Edited May 12, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) ^ The sad thing is that even the Bulgarians don't hard chrome-line their 74 type brakes anymore. "Too expensive", I guess.. though you'd never guess that from the price K-Var/Arsenal is charging for em: ~$85.00 If you can find one, the best value for the money is one of those East German-made chrome-lined "zig-zag" 74 brakes that become available from time to time. The last site that had em, (note the past tense), that I know of is dinzag, for $49. If you think you've located one of these brakes that'll work on your rifle, the main thing to be wary of is that these brakes come in a couple different sizes, and the website is not always as complete in their specifications on these items as they really should be, e.g. I ordered one from Cope's to be used on my 7.62, and only after it was delivered and I inspected it did I find out that the brake was made for 5.45/5.56 only.. too small for 7.62. So on a sidenote, if anyone needs well-made, chromed 74 brake for their 5.45/5.56 I have one for sale. Anyway, I ended up going with a completely US-manufactured 74 brake from ak-103.com. Their brakes seem to be the very highest quality on the market. They are CNC machined from 4140 bar steel, then hardened to Rockwell C, hard chrome-lined, phosphate coated, then finished in an extremely durable semi-gloss black. They cost ~$95.00. Edited May 12, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I got the Kreb's 74 style. I just need a pin guys. So far, grinding to fit a 10-32 screw seems like the best bet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skifast 2 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 How much of a difference in muzzle lift and recoil does the zig zag or half moon cuts make for a semi auto? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) ^ The difference is quite noticable. It's not just the two forward gas ports of the 74 design, (the half-moon or zig-zag), that are involved in helping to reduce recoil, it's also the 3 gas ports in the gas expansion chamber located further toward the rear of the brake. These vastly reduce muzzle rise. Edited May 12, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 ^ The sad thing is that even the Bulgarians don't hard chrome-line their 74 type brakes anymore. "Too expensive", I guess.. though you'd never guess that from the price K-Var/Arsenal is charging for em: ~$85.00 . . and what data are you basing this on? If you are basing it on the currently offered US made AK74 brake from K-Var, Arsenal of Bulgaria (or "the Bulgarians") IS NOT MAKING them. Arsenal of Bulgaria produces chrome lined AK74 / AK10x brakes to this day. How much of a difference in muzzle lift and recoil does the zig zag or half moon cuts make for a semi auto? Absolutely none. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) I got the Kreb's 74 style. I just need a pin guys. So far, grinding to fit a 10-32 screw seems like the best bet. Sure that should work. It seems odd that they didn't send you a pin with your new FSB. Edited May 12, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dude, i bought a AK74 FSB for $25. I don't know who made it. I'm just glad it fit. I wasn't going to spend $85 for a Bulgy FSB so i could have $8 worth of Front sight pins etc. It's not worth it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) ^ The sad thing is that even the Bulgarians don't hard chrome-line their 74 type brakes anymore. "Too expensive", I guess.. though you'd never guess that from the price K-Var/Arsenal is charging for em: ~$85.00 . . and what data are you basing this on? If you are basing it on the currently offered US made AK74 brake from K-Var, Arsenal of Bulgaria (or "the Bulgarians") IS NOT MAKING them. Arsenal of Bulgaria produces chrome lined AK74 / AK10x brakes to this day. That's nice. Happen to have a link from which you can order them? As I said, the brakes sold by K-Var/Arsenal Inc are not chrome-lined, and I wasn't able to find a source from which one could purchase the brakes directly from Arsenal of Bulgaria, (the real Bulgarians I guess). If they're not available for purchase, it doesn't really matter how they're made, does it? How much of a difference in muzzle lift and recoil does the zig zag or half moon cuts make for a semi auto? Absolutely none. Bullshit. Semi-auto or full-auto, if you're firing rounds in rapid succession and want to stay on target more easily, a 74 brake will help. Edited May 12, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) The AK74 style brakes are ok, they are design to reduce muzzle rise and lesser recoil on full auto big time, but don't do much on semi auto fire or single shot. On rapid fire they work great as the brake does was design for that. On the other hand the Polish KbK wz.88 does a better job on single fire but dont work that great on rapid fire. JP enterprises makes ones of the best brakes out there but not cheap. E-tac makes good brakes like the one on my .223 that gun don't have any rise at all, really no recoil what so ever. or the R3E2C made by OPS, INC. like in the last 7.62x39 has zero recoil. The only problem with those brakes is that they are no Mickey mouse install, barrel have to be thread, need a index ring or sleeve and a Muzzle brake reamer have to be use on then to make sure they are align 100% with the bore as they are 0.014 to 0.030 over bullet diameter on exit holes and Baffles. But what do I know about brakes and how to use them. Now if you want something just for looks I guess anything can do. If you want a working brake well things are complete different. Edited May 12, 2009 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Dude, i bought a AK74 FSB for $25. I don't know who made it. I'm just glad it fit. I wasn't going to spend $85 for a Bulgy FSB so i could have $8 worth of Front sight pins etc. It's not worth it. lol You're right, it's not. I'm sure that screw will work just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 ...But what do I know about brakes and how to use them. A helluva lot more than I do, I'll readily admit. Most of the alternative brakes you mentioned are less of an option for me, as I had to use one with 24x1.5mm RH threads and I don't want to use any adapters. So, within those parameters, I decided that the 74 brake was the best option. I also like the "classic looks" of that brake design. To each his own when it comes to brakes, but the 74 is not as relatively useless as nailoth makes it out to be. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 ...But what do I know about brakes and how to use them. A helluva lot more than I do, I'll readily admit. Most of the alternative brakes you mentioned are less of an option for me, as I had to use one with 24x1.5mm RH threads and I don't want to use any adapters. So, within those parameters, I decided that the 74 brake was the best option. I also like the "classic looks" of that brake design. To each his own when it comes to brakes, but the 74 is not as relatively useless as nailoth makes it out to be. You right, the brake is not useless, it takes about 40% to 50% of the recoil in semi auto really rapid fire. Specially if the brake is made good like Chris butler on AK-USA does as have use them on classic looking guns. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
skifast 2 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) I bought a AK74 style brake on Gunbroker for $20. It has 24mm threads a large gas chamber and the 3 offset ports. It does not have the zig zag ports. My thinking is that the 7.62x39 doesn't kick all that much to begin with, and I will get most of the performance of an AK74 brake without spending an additional $80. My last question was how much the zig zag ports improve performance over a brake without the zig zag ports. Edited May 12, 2009 by skifast Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) I bought a AK74 style brake on Gunbroker for $20. It has 24mm threads a large gas chamber and the 3 offset ports. It does not have the zig zag ports. My thinking is that the 7.62x39 doesn't kick all that much to begin with, and I will get most of the performance of an AK74 brake without spending an additional $80. If it doesn't have zig-zags it's got to have half-moons. They both serve the same purpose. Nice price on that brake. Go use it and see what you think of the design's performance. Edited May 12, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) The thing of using A brake is nothing like when you put your red dot on a target and the dot don't even jump as you pop 10 more targets and different distances like using a .22, the brake let you engage targets really quick really fast as you don't have to recover from recoil at all and loose any time. It feels really good. But at the same time noise goes up and some times flash all depends on the brake to be use. Edited May 12, 2009 by vjor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Not every 74 brake has the moons or the zigs. I've seen some with NEITHER and no holes either... i passed on them... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 Not every 74 brake has the moons or the zigs. I've seen some with NEITHER and no holes either... i passed on them... Good call. Those really would do nothing, (except increase the length of your weapon). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 I need a pin to retain the spring for the muzzle-index pin. THose of you with AK74 FSBs will know the pin I'm talking about. Anyway, anyone know or can suggest a pin to use to retain the spring? Currently I just use a nail i bent on the end LOL A short piece butt end of a drill bit of appropriate size should work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 How much of a difference in muzzle lift and recoil does the zig zag or half moon cuts make for a semi auto? Absolutely none. Bullshit. Semi-auto or full-auto, if you're firing rounds in rapid succession and want to stay on target more easily, a 74 brake will help. What part of his question was incomprehensible to you? He asked the difference of the "C-Cut" or "Z-CUT" pattern AK74 brake in reducing muzzle lift or recoil. The facial pattern makes no difference at all, during slow fire or rapid fire, for that matter. The z-cut (laser cut, zigzag pattern) was adopted for cheaper construction. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 (edited) ^ lol You really are the most pointlessly argumentative and pissy member of this entire forum, aren't ya? I don't have the time or patience to play with ya anymore today, nalioth. Sorry. Edited May 12, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mstranglr 9 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 The AK74 style brakes are ok, they are design to reduce muzzle rise and lesser recoil on full auto big time, but don't do much on semi auto fire or single shot. On rapid fire they work great as the brake does was design for that. On the other hand the Polish KbK wz.88 does a better job on single fire but dont work that great on rapid fire. JP enterprises makes ones of the best brakes out there but not cheap. E-tac makes good brakes like the one on my .223 that gun don't have any rise at all, really no recoil what so ever. or the R3E2C made by OPS, INC. like in the last 7.62x39 has zero recoil. The only problem with those brakes is that they are no Mickey mouse install, barrel have to be thread, need a index ring or sleeve and a Muzzle brake reamer have to be use on then to make sure they are align 100% with the bore as they are 0.014 to 0.030 over bullet diameter on exit holes and Baffles. But what do I know about brakes and how to use them. Now if you want something just for looks I guess anything can do. If you want a working brake well things are complete different. Thats about what I noticed with the 74 style brake; they work just "OK", but do improve accuracy if you get a quality one that is properly aligned and reamed. You should really try the FSC-47 brake, which is IMHO the BEST of the BEST muzzle device for a semi-auto AK. The J-Tac brake is just a hair less effective than the FSC-47, but is also $35 cheaper. I think that if you balance price, recoil reduction, muzzle rise, 922r compliance, noise, muzzle flash, and size into a single brake - the J-Tac would win all around. I do really like the Authentic look of the 74-style brake though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted May 12, 2009 Report Share Posted May 12, 2009 IMHO the primary function of a brake should be flash hiding. muzzle compensation should be second. http://primaryweapons.com/store/pc/viewPrd...mp;idproduct=57 thats what I have. If I re-did my Saiga I'd get a vortex. Thats completely wrong. The AK, AR and many others were designed as short range automatic assault rifles. As such, they dont need to hide the flash, your enemy is at short range and you can see him or when you put suppressive fire you still dont need to hide. All you need is stable and more or less accurate shot after shot. And it is brake's job to do it. SVD has the flash hider which is essential for sniping, when you want to stay undetected. At some point after Vietnam, US military doctrine changed, AR became very accurate and full auto is believed not to be much effective anymore, so AR got suppressors. Suppressor doesnt reduce recoil or stabilizes the rifle at all. There are brake-suppressor combos, but none of them is any good as these 2 functions cant be combined very well in a single device Just saw this. and FYI, this is incorrect information. Suppressors do indeed reduce recoil, improves accuracy to a degree, and acts as a flash suppressor. Not my opinion, it's a fact. Research it. I have used the J-Tac (the older style) and found it to be effective. I also have used the AMD65 and found it to reduce recoil also, but it's freaking loud. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaNoobie 66 Posted May 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 14, 2009 I can deffinitely tell a difference when i shoot the gun with vs. without the new 74 brake. I made some videos showing me shooting the gun basically lightly holding it with my rear hand and no support on the stock. Will edit and post them later. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
usmc_mwroseberry 0 Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 I have a bulgy FSB and an east german zig zag on my 16" and it made a world of difference. Went from 4" of muzzle climb to under an inch. I can put multiple rounds on target in very fast succession. I caughed up the extra money and I am VERY happy I did. JMO Good luck, Merritt SGT USMC vet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
crackback 135 Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 (edited) Anyone know of a super-fantastic muzzle brake? I don't really care about cost or looks. I just want it to be the best recoil-reduction and muzzle-rise reduction possible. Any suggestions? 7.62x39. I can thread my gun to any pitch so it doesn't have to be standard AK pitch. I know its a flash hider but the Smith Vortex is bar none the best at its job IMHO. In addition its a US 922r part. http://www.smithenterprise.com/products06.html Edited May 15, 2009 by 690gr Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Vultite 57 Posted May 18, 2009 Report Share Posted May 18, 2009 always the J-tac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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