Best HD Ammo for S12 Walmart ok? or I can find better

[S12baby 0]

Hi Folks, As you can see I am new here. I'm looking for the best ammo for HD for my S12. What would you recommend? 2 3/4" or 3" What number buck? What brand and should I buy the ammo at walmart or buy higher quality ammo from an online ammo shop? Thanks.

[BrutalGardener 205]

Hi Folks, As you can see I am new here. I'm looking for the best ammo for HD for my S12. What would you recommend? 2 3/4" or 3" What number buck? What brand and should I buy the ammo at walmart or buy higher quality ammo from an online ammo shop? Thanks.

 

Back when I just had my pump-action 12-gauge, I used these Remington "managed recoil" 00 buck, that come in green boxes. Those are designed specifically for HD. My S12 doesn't like those too much and so, now I just use your standard Winchester 2.75" 9 pellet, non copper-plated, 00 buck. I shot plenty of that stuff over the years and never had any problems with it. I choose the non copper-plated variety, because it's less likely to go through walls and kill my neighbors. 3" magnum loads are an overkill and make the weapon harder to control.

[rightwingextremist 0]

Hi Folks, As you can see I am new here. I'm looking for the best ammo for HD for my S12. What would you recommend? 2 3/4" or 3" What number buck? What brand and should I buy the ammo at walmart or buy higher quality ammo from an online ammo shop? Thanks.

i am new here to but to me 2 3/4 would be more manageble in a hd situation and i would use bird shot not buck for hd for the simple fact of over penetration of walls were you risk hitting someone else you didnt intend as for as brand see what fires good in your gun mine will eat the wally world value packs but yours might not this is just my opion others may differ just read up and practice

[Mephis 82]

I just use the winchester rifled slugs. (2-3/4)

 

 

 

They don't deform too badly in the magazine. I keep a 10 rounder full of federal copper plated 00 buck though.

 

Can't go wrong with either IMO. The remington sluggers deform a lot worse than the winchesters though.

 

Hi Folks, As you can see I am new here. I'm looking for the best ammo for HD for my S12. What would you recommend? 2 3/4" or 3" What number buck? What brand and should I buy the ammo at walmart or buy higher quality ammo from an online ammo shop? Thanks.

i am new here to but to me 2 3/4 would be more manageble in a hd situation and i would use bird shot not buck for hd for the simple fact of over penetration of walls were you risk hitting someone else you didnt intend as for as brand see what fires good in your gun mine will eat the wally world value packs but yours might not this is just my opion others may differ just read up and practice

 

Birdshot doesn't have stopping power. It creates a nasty shallow wound, and lacks the penetration to hit vital organs. Don't go lower than #4, and even at that it lacks necessary penetration but it's better than plain bird shot. The human body is a lot tougher than a tin can.

 

The walmart skeet load stuff had trouble penetrating a plastic water jug I had set up for a target. That means it's weaker than a bb gun.

Edited July 13, 2009 by Mephis

[rightwingextremist 0]

I just use the winchester rifled slugs. (2-3/4)

 

 

 

They don't deform too badly in the magazine. I keep a 10 rounder full of federal copper plated 00 buck though.

 

Can't go wrong with either IMO. The remington sluggers deform a lot worse than the winchesters though.

 

Hi Folks, As you can see I am new here. I'm looking for the best ammo for HD for my S12. What would you recommend? 2 3/4" or 3" What number buck? What brand and should I buy the ammo at walmart or buy higher quality ammo from an online ammo shop? Thanks.

i am new here to but to me 2 3/4 would be more manageble in a hd situation and i would use bird shot not buck for hd for the simple fact of over penetration of walls were you risk hitting someone else you didnt intend as for as brand see what fires good in your gun mine will eat the wally world value packs but yours might not this is just my opion others may differ just read up and practice

 

Birdshot doesn't have stopping power. It creates a nasty shallow wound, and lacks the penetration to hit vital organs. Don't go lower than #4, and even at that it lacks necessary penetration but it's better than plain bird shot. The human body is a lot tougher than a tin can.

 

The walmart skeet load stuff had trouble penetrating a plastic water jug I had set up for a target. That means it's weaker than a bb gun.

you think that then maybe he should just use a bb gun. hd situations are up close and personal not 20 to 40 yards like on a range.you had trouble penetrating a plastic jug thats some funny shit man you use the statment human body is a lot tougher than a tin can but yet it wont penetrate a platic jug yeah right what distance was this at

[Mephis 82]

I just use the winchester rifled slugs. (2-3/4)

 

 

 

They don't deform too badly in the magazine. I keep a 10 rounder full of federal copper plated 00 buck though.

 

Can't go wrong with either IMO. The remington sluggers deform a lot worse than the winchesters though.

 

Hi Folks, As you can see I am new here. I'm looking for the best ammo for HD for my S12. What would you recommend? 2 3/4" or 3" What number buck? What brand and should I buy the ammo at walmart or buy higher quality ammo from an online ammo shop? Thanks.

i am new here to but to me 2 3/4 would be more manageble in a hd situation and i would use bird shot not buck for hd for the simple fact of over penetration of walls were you risk hitting someone else you didnt intend as for as brand see what fires good in your gun mine will eat the wally world value packs but yours might not this is just my opion others may differ just read up and practice

 

Birdshot doesn't have stopping power. It creates a nasty shallow wound, and lacks the penetration to hit vital organs. Don't go lower than #4, and even at that it lacks necessary penetration but it's better than plain bird shot. The human body is a lot tougher than a tin can.

 

The walmart skeet load stuff had trouble penetrating a plastic water jug I had set up for a target. That means it's weaker than a bb gun.

you think that then maybe he should just use a bb gun. hd situations are up close and personal not 20 to 40 yards like on a range.you had trouble penetrating a plastic jug thats some funny shit man you use the statment human body is a lot tougher than a tin can but yet it wont penetrate a platic jug yeah right what distance was this at

 

 

7 yards.

 

Here's some educational material for you: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

 

And in case you miss it:

Birdshot as a Defense Load

I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

 

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

 

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

 

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

 

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

 

 

If you remember physics from highschool you should understand that the pellets in bird shot are too small to carry enough mass to do actual damage.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Mephis

[rightwingextremist 0]

I just use the winchester rifled slugs. (2-3/4)

 

 

 

They don't deform too badly in the magazine. I keep a 10 rounder full of federal copper plated 00 buck though.

 

Can't go wrong with either IMO. The remington sluggers deform a lot worse than the winchesters though.

 

Hi Folks, As you can see I am new here. I'm looking for the best ammo for HD for my S12. What would you recommend? 2 3/4" or 3" What number buck? What brand and should I buy the ammo at walmart or buy higher quality ammo from an online ammo shop? Thanks.

i am new here to but to me 2 3/4 would be more manageble in a hd situation and i would use bird shot not buck for hd for the simple fact of over penetration of walls were you risk hitting someone else you didnt intend as for as brand see what fires good in your gun mine will eat the wally world value packs but yours might not this is just my opion others may differ just read up and practice

 

Birdshot doesn't have stopping power. It creates a nasty shallow wound, and lacks the penetration to hit vital organs. Don't go lower than #4, and even at that it lacks necessary penetration but it's better than plain bird shot. The human body is a lot tougher than a tin can.

 

The walmart skeet load stuff had trouble penetrating a plastic water jug I had set up for a target. That means it's weaker than a bb gun.

you think that then maybe he should just use a bb gun. hd situations are up close and personal not 20 to 40 yards like on a range.you had trouble penetrating a plastic jug thats some funny shit man you use the statment human body is a lot tougher than a tin can but yet it wont penetrate a platic jug yeah right what distance was this at

 

 

7 yards.

 

Here's some educational material for you: http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3_2.htm

 

And in case you miss it:

Birdshot as a Defense Load

I have had a lot of questions, summed up as follows: How effective is birdshot (#4, #6, #8, etc.) as a defense load?

 

We have done tests with various birdshot loads. Birdshot penetrated through two pieces of drywall (representing one wall) and was stopped in the paper on the front of the second wall. The problem with birdshot is that it does not penetrate enough to be effective as a defense round. Birdshot is designed to bring down little birds.

 

A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

 

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

 

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job.

 

 

If you remember physics from highschool you should understand that the pellets in bird shot are too small to carry enough mass to do actual damage.

hey mephis as far as physics #8 bird shot is 1 1/8 oz so at 20 feet or less mass is similiar to that of a slug unless your shooting some kind of sawed off the birdshot should hold tight and penetrate were talking home defense bud and i believe birdshot from a 12 guage in a home which unless you got a big ass house no distane should be over 20 feet and i love my family and would hate to kill or hurt one of them do to overpenetration i read your link maybe you should read it since you use slugs due to the penetration bud im not trying to be an ass thats why in my 1st post it say this is my opion. and you deserve yours also

[Mephis 82]

hey mephis as far as physics #8 bird shot is 1 1/8 oz so at 20 feet or less mass is similiar to that of a slug unless your shooting some kind of sawed off the birdshot should hold tight and penetrate were talking home defense bud and i believe birdshot from a 12 guage in a home which unless you got a big ass house no distane should be over 20 feet and i love my family and would hate to kill or hurt one of them do to overpenetration i read your link maybe you should read it since you use slugs due to the penetration bud im not trying to be an ass thats why in my 1st post it say this is my opion. and you deserve yours also

 

 

I'm sorry but that post, your grammar, and your name all together are hilarious...

 

Anyway, you lack the understanding that while yes, there may be 1-1/8oz in the air, that isn't going to tell you how well it will perform on a target. You need to look at the mass of each individual pellet to figure out what it's going to do. Wad up a bunch of paper equaling 1-1/8th oz and stuff it in a shotgun shell, same theory.

 

I don't care how tightly grouped they are, as soon as they hit anything harder than a piece of cardboard, they're going to spread and lose a ton of energy. As I said, figure it up as if you only have 1 of those pellets in the air, because whether you have 1 or 100, they're going to penetrate the same regardless. 1 pellet under the skin or 100 isn't going to make much of a difference if they're not reaching vital organs.

 

 

I use slugs because I'm confident in my ability to aim and check what's behind my target regardless of the situation. Not only that, my AR15 is my primary means of home defense, which as you are surely aware, overpenetration is not an issue with.

 

Like I said before, #4 lack penetration in the vast majority of cases but it's considered okay in a home defense situation. That's the absolute lightest shot you can use. I've seen people in the ER peppered with bird shot from nearly point blank, while it isn't pretty, and will hurt to have all the pellets picked out, it's not going to stop someone. Just like the idiots who think rocksalt is a good defensive load... Hilarious.

 

If you're concerned about your family's safety, you'll use an HD loading that will properly neutralize a threat. You also need to realize, if it won't penetrate sheet rock, it's not going to penetrate the human body.

 

Quick note: If you're really that concerned with over penetration with HD loads, you should look at other options instead of a 12 gauge. And opinions mean nothing, facts are the only thing I deal in.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Mephis

[rightwingextremist 0]

hey mephis as far as physics #8 bird shot is 1 1/8 oz so at 20 feet or less mass is similiar to that of a slug unless your shooting some kind of sawed off the birdshot should hold tight and penetrate were talking home defense bud and i believe birdshot from a 12 guage in a home which unless you got a big ass house no distane should be over 20 feet and i love my family and would hate to kill or hurt one of them do to overpenetration i read your link maybe you should read it since you use slugs due to the penetration bud im not trying to be an ass thats why in my 1st post it say this is my opion. and you deserve yours also

 

 

I'm sorry but that post, your grammar, and your name all together are hilarious...

 

Anyway, you lack the understanding that while yes, there may be 1-1/8oz in the air, that isn't going to tell you how well it will perform on a target. You need to look at the mass of each individual pellet to figure out what it's going to do. Wad up a bunch of paper equaling 1-1/8th oz and stuff it in a shotgun shell, same theory.

 

I don't care how tightly grouped they are, as soon as they hit anything harder than a piece of cardboard, they're going to spread and lose a ton of energy. As I said, figure it up as if you only have 1 of those pellets in the air, because whether you have 1 or 100, they're going to penetrate the same regardless. 1 pellet under the skin or 100 isn't going to make much of a difference if they're not reaching vital organs.

 

 

I use slugs because I'm confident in my ability to aim and check what's behind my target regardless of the situation. Not only that, my AR15 is my primary means of home defense, which as you are surely aware, overpenetration is not an issue with.

 

Like I said before, #4 lack penetration in the vast majority of cases but it's considered okay in a home defense situation. That's the absolute lightest shot you can use. I've seen people in the ER peppered with bird shot from nearly point blank, while it isn't pretty, and will hurt to have all the pellets picked out, it's not going to stop someone. Just like the idiots who think rocksalt is a good defensive load... Hilarious.

 

If you're concerned about your family's safety, you'll use an HD loading that will properly neutralize a threat. You also need to realize, if it won't penetrate sheet rock, it's not going to penetrate the human body.

 

Quick note: If you're really that concerned with over penetration with HD loads, you should look at other options instead of a 12 gauge.

hey mephis you have a good night brother this post was for s-12baby not us sorry not as bright as you bro and i like my name no harm done here mephis

[Gopher 7]

you know if you pump the guy full of bird shot, hes going to go either into shock or he will just give up.

 

but...

 

i might get alot of crap thrown at me for this... but, im saying that you should use these...

 

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM837-5.html

 

if they hit the person, the person is going to have issues...

if you hit a wall, all of the energy will be disipated

and if they person takes a family hostage in a locked room, you can blow the door off its hinges and still get the guy...

but hey this is my $0.02 wont know if it works till you actually hit a guy.

[Mephis 82]

you know if you pump the guy full of bird shot, hes going to go either into shock or he will just give up.

 

but...

 

i might get alot of crap thrown at me for this... but, im saying that you should use these...

 

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM837-5.html

 

if they hit the person, the person is going to have issues...

if you hit a wall, all of the energy will be disipated

and if they person takes a family hostage in a locked room, you can blow the door off its hinges and still get the guy...

but hey this is my $0.02 wont know if it works till you actually hit a guy.

 

Yea, he may go into shock after he's filled you full of holes, when you could have put 9-15 .33 caliber lead balls into his chest and avoided the problem all together.

Keep in mind, in most places shooting an unarmed intruder will land you in jail. So you might as well consider that you're going to have to shoot at someone who could very well return fire.

 

Have you used it to find out if it has enough juice to cycle a saiga? It also looks like you can't use it in a full choke, which is going to be a problem for a lot of saiga owners including myself.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Mephis

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Wally World... Winchester Super X, unplated lead 00 buck, in either 9 pellet, 2 3/4", or 15 pellet, 3" Magnum.

Both available at most WalMarts in 15 round value packs, for $9-12.

Edited July 14, 2009 by ChileRelleno

[Reverendfranz 160]

if they hit the person, the person is going to have issues...

if you hit a wall, all of the energy will be disipated

and if they person takes a family hostage in a locked room, you can blow the door off its hinges and still get the guy...

but hey this is my $0.02 wont know if it works till you actually hit a guy.

 

Not alot of crap, but i would like to tell you that whoever told you that they will dissipate energy on contact with a wall was seriously mistaken, unless they mean a solid support wall, or one made out bricks. Shells like that use a sealed hard plastic carrier filled with powder, and until the projectile hits something hard enough to break the plastic, it operates exactly like a slug. Most walls are made primarily of sheetrock and unless you hit a stud, that projectile is going to travel through several layers of sheetrock before it even thinks about dumping the powder and allowing the energy to dissipate. They will even punch through some sheetmetal.

 

They are alot of fun, though, just dont think you dont have to be aware of what is behind your target just because you cant see it.

[S12baby 0]

Other than bird shot what else will cycle properly and work.

[Gopher 7]

you know if you pump the guy full of bird shot, hes going to go either into shock or he will just give up.

 

but...

 

i might get alot of crap thrown at me for this... but, im saying that you should use these...

 

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/AMM837-5.html

 

if they hit the person, the person is going to have issues...

if you hit a wall, all of the energy will be disipated

and if they person takes a family hostage in a locked room, you can blow the door off its hinges and still get the guy...

but hey this is my $0.02 wont know if it works till you actually hit a guy.

 

Yea, he may go into shock after he's filled you full of holes, when you could have put 9-15 .33 caliber lead balls into his chest and avoided the problem all together.

Keep in mind, in most places shooting an unarmed intruder will land you in jail. So you might as well consider that you're going to have to shoot at someone who could very well return fire.

 

Have you used it to find out if it has enough juice to cycle a saiga? It also looks like you can't use it in a full choke, which is going to be a problem for a lot of saiga owners including myself.

i know here in kommifornia if the guy never leaves your house... you are in right, and i know here in kern county the police shoot first ask questions later... so they wouldn't care too much. but like you said most places would arrest you.

[dc2bar 0]

Interesting topic. I am headed out to the range tomorrow with my saiga 12 19", and would be more than willing to sacrifice an old pair of jeans to stick some meat in and shoot with various loads to settle this debate with a little more proof than speculation.

 

I personally think the birdshot won't really do enough damage to kill, so in my gun I keep 2 3/4" Hornady TAP 00 Buckshot. Strategic placement of bookcases and cabinets set up backstops for lines of fire I have set up in my house. In the event i miss a backstop (which is physically impossible from my set up lines of fire, but who knows i may have to run n gun), the outside of my house is brick so i'm not overly concerned.

 

Any recommendations on reasonably priced meat to stuff into the jeans? i'm honestly thinking that even just a few lbs stuffed in a pocket won't be penetrated by the birdshot. With my rubber reactive targets, the 22 pass through like they're intended to, whereas the bb's from cheapo wally world bulk federal get stuck in the targets.

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Interesting topic. I am headed out to the range tomorrow with my saiga 12 19", and would be more than willing to sacrifice an old pair of jeans to stick some meat in and shoot with various loads to settle this debate with a little more proof than speculation.

 

I personally think the birdshot won't really do enough damage to kill, so in my gun I keep 2 3/4" Hornady TAP 00 Buckshot. Strategic placement of bookcases and cabinets set up backstops for lines of fire I have set up in my house. In the event i miss a backstop (which is physically impossible from my set up lines of fire, but who knows i may have to run n gun), the outside of my house is brick so i'm not overly concerned.

 

Any recommendations on reasonably priced meat to stuff into the jeans? i'm honestly thinking that even just a few lbs stuffed in a pocket won't be penetrated by the birdshot. With my rubber reactive targets, the 22 pass through like they're intended to, whereas the bb's from cheapo wally world bulk federal get stuck in the targets.

Why waste good money on meat?

 

All such tests have already been done numerous times, such as here,

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic....=7&t=109958

Or at Box O' Truth, http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

Prime example, Breaching Rounds, http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot25.htm

 

Wanna know what the best shotgun round is to stop a human threat?

What does the military and LE have in the mag?

#1 answer, 00 buck.

Cheap and highly effective.

[dc2bar 0]

Why waste good money on meat?

 

All such tests have already been done numerous times, such as here,

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic....=7&t=109958

Or at Box O' Truth, http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/theboxotruth.htm

Prime example, Breaching Rounds, http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot25.htm

 

Wanna know what the best shotgun round is to stop a human threat?

What does the military and LE have in the mag?

#1 answer, 00 buck.

Cheap and highly effective.

 

yeah, i've seen those, but it's still fun to shoot things haha. Zombie jugs are getting boring.

[Gopher 7]

thanks ChileRelleno, now i will go hush hush on those door breaching rounds.

 

but i have to ask now is if you reload your own 12 gauge rounds would using .117 bb's work better or worse than bird shot?

[JK-47 33]

If you want to minimize the risk of overpenetration while still penetrating deep enough to reach vital organs from pretty much any angle i.e. 12" to 14" depth then #1 buckshot is the loading. It's also wise to pattern your intended load to see how well it stays together, you still want tight patterns so you can put all your shot into your target. Stray pellets don't stop the target and can endanger unintended targets.

[vintagedude88 16]

Why all the debate over what works and what doesn't? Just take your gun to the range and go shooting. Find out for yourself what works best for you and your gun.

 

The problem with most people who choose to use the S12 for HD is that after they buy the gun and load it with ammo, they stick it in the closet or by some door never to be fired until "something" happens. That "something" if life goes well may never happen for a long while and so the gun sits never to be used. The problem with that is that it may not function properly with the ammo in it when that time comes.

 

Know your gun. Know what ammo can be used in it that will function well in your gun first hand and not from someone else's experience from the Net. Know what setting (gas setting) works best for your intended ammo. You also need to use your gun to know that your mags(be it factory, AGP, Surefire, or Promag) feed properly. Whatever works well in someone else's gun may not work well in yours. Experience is key, especially if you plan to rely upon it in a desperate situation.

 

For example, I've used birdshot in my gun and it didn't cycle well, even on gas setting #2. Maybe with another 100rnds in it, the gun will finally break in properly to cycle birdshot. But for now, if I am to use it for HD, I'll be sticking with high brass shells for now. If you're not going to the range regularly with the gun and just having it for JIC HD then why would you chance your life on cheap shit Walmart ammo? Get the good stuff, go 00 buck or even try using 3" magnums. You will hit something with it and it will have some take down power.

[mollysman420 19]

Wally World... Winchester Super X, unplated lead 00 buck, in either 9 pellet, 2 3/4", or 15 pellet, 3" Magnum.

Both available at most WalMarts in 15 round value packs, for $9-12.

Thats all i but for slugs and buck, Bird I buy Estate 3 1/4 dram my gun functions 100% and Estate is $6 a box

[Eric Pate 478]

God I'm sick of arguing the "birdshot-as-HD" scenario. Its just not effective. Period.

[mechsterbator 0]

God I'm sick of arguing the "birdshot-as-HD" scenario. Its just not effective. Period.

 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/12-g...s.aspx?a=377126

 

-best of both worlds

[S12baby 0]

Anyone use Hornady TAP 00 Buck in their S12?

[BrutalGardener 205]

God I'm sick of arguing the "birdshot-as-HD" scenario. Its just not effective. Period.

 

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/12-g...s.aspx?a=377126

 

-best of both worlds

 

Hah! That' sweet! I bought a few boxes of Federal premium copper-plated 12 pellet 00 buck once. Every time I shot one, it would leave a big-ass, slug-sized hole that went right through the thick, wood target backer, in addition to all the standard pellet holes. My buddy and I couldn't figure out WTF was going on. We thought that it was a load like these, that was accidentally mislabeled at the factory. So, we opened one of the shells up and found only the pellets, beneath a very hard, hefty cap. It's the caps that made those nasty, slug-sized holes, even at 50 yards. I don't know if it's intentional or not, but I never shot another kind of 00 buck that did that.

[ZombiesFearMe 0]

Shotgun Ballistics

 

Some info you may find useful.