Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted August 2, 2009 Report Share Posted August 2, 2009 (edited) Are the .223 bolts for the AK-47 compatible with the the .223 Saiga? Let me expand on this. The bolt I refer to is the one that has the firing pin and extractor that holds the shell in place during firing and also extracts it after firing. I am not talking about a metric threaded bolt per se, but this one that has the raised dimple around the firing pin hole. A military bolt head would probably not have the modified face that leaves the impression on the fired brass around the firing pin hole. Head-space may be an issue to get it right, though. Edited August 2, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
5whiskey 0 Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Are the .223 bolts for the AK-47 compatible with the the .223 Saiga? Let me expand on this. The bolt I refer to is the one that has the firing pin and extractor that holds the shell in place during firing and also extracts it after firing. I am not talking about a metric threaded bolt per se, but this one that has the raised dimple around the firing pin hole. A military bolt head would probably not have the modified face that leaves the impression on the fired brass around the firing pin hole. Head-space may be an issue to get it right, though. Yeah, that's the only thing. I would think it should work, but you'd have to headspace it. Honestly, it's my theory that our rifles probably have a prettly loose headspace tolerance and could stand to be tightened anyway. I don't know how much work that is with an AK though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted August 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Probably a lot of work. The barrel would have to be remounted further back to compensate for loss of headspace on the bolt face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted August 9, 2009 Report Share Posted August 9, 2009 Definetly not worth it imho. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WardenWolf 6 Posted August 10, 2009 Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 I can effectively guarantee, no. The Saiga .223 is built on a 7.62x39 receiver, with the barrel being the same barrel stock as the 7.62x39 barrels, and simply being underbored. Because of these significant differences, the bolts and bolt carriers of the Saiga .223 are unique among AK's. The Saiga .223 is essentially slightly modified 7.62x39 rather than being a proper AK-101. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted August 10, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 10, 2009 Why those rotten Russians! Put out a unique rifle with a raised bolt face to center mark around the primers. So, even an AK-101 bolt face would be different then? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) What would happen if I had an AK-101 bolt and carrier? Would it be able to match up to the barrel for correct head space? BTW Mike, how did you find out about the unique feature of the Saiga in .223? Edited August 19, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JK-47 33 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) If you are trying to eliminate that bolt face indentation you can: A. have it neatly milled down to all one depth and reset headspace to the new depth B. Gently tig weld in a small steel ring insert, provided this can be done without ruining the heat treat on the bolt. C. Use a 5.45x39mm bolt. A 5.45 bolt will work pretty well with .223 and it's been done before. Really any small stem bolt you find can work, including 7.62x39mm bolts like this one (which has recently doubled in price for some reason?) for the 7.62x39mm bolt you'll need to tig weld in a different sort of ring, a pocket face bushing : http://www.lichtenbergresearch.com/parts/b...ketbushing.html then cut a new ejector slot and fit a .223 or 5.45 extractor claw. You will still need to check headspace after these, but hey you might get lucky and not have to reset heaspace. * I am listing these as possible options only because I don't know of any other .223 small stem bolts. The Chinese and Romanians both made .223 AKs with the larger AKM style bolts. I guess AK 101's and Bulgarian made botls might still be options if they are small stem (aK74 style). Edited August 19, 2009 by JK-47 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 B. would work better if one would mill down the raised area to even and then put in a hardened steel insert 0.006" well tacked in there. On a thread I have of "Needful Things" Brian Wagner of Lawson Industries also has demonstrated some unique welding compound, a thin piece of wire that you can solder with at a temperature of 92 deg. C. VERY low temp stuff, but has 50,000 psi tensile strength when cooled. A small insert, with a center hole for the firing pin (put in after you weld in the insert) would give the same effect of the raised area for headspace, but now would distribute that head space to the entire shell casing head, and not just that area around the primer pocket. To 98% or so of the folks that shoot the .223 Saiga, that internal crimp means nothing. But, to a reloader, like myself, that is an aggravation. I can easily resize and pop out the old primer, that's not an issue. Putting a new primer in there because of the deformed area of the primer pocket makes a lot more steps and is a PITA. Besides, I like the idea of 100% of the cartridge head being supported, and not just around the primer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
555JM 10 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 "Putting a new primer in there because of the deformed area of the primer pocket makes a lot more steps and is a PITA." What do you have to do, Darth? Ream the primer pocket to get a new primer to go in? I haven't tried reloading Saiga fired brass yet, but expect to before long. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted August 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) I have a RCBS primer pocket reamer (hand) that has kind of step to it. Cleans out the bottom of the primer and helps to get a nice chamfer for the primer to seat. Helps, but doesn't quite finish. I then use a 3 blade counter sink I have at a 120 deg angle and touch up the primer a bit more. Even at all of that when I use my Lee hand primer tool sometimes I have to really push hard to seat that primer, and when I get done the primer is now really flattened on the surface, like you had shot it already and it was over pressure load, but it has not been fired. Difference of the primer make quite a difference in pressure build and accuracy as well. Can I reload this brass after firing? Yes, and I have been. It's NOT a matter of pretty, it's a matter of efficiency and better datum point. Anybody that shoots steel shells will have no problem, as they don't reload, and steel is stronger in the head area than brass. Federal brass is perhaps the worst, as it is thinner in the head area, but thicker in the wall area. Just something to keep in mind. Takes a little more time with brass fired from this rifle than a Mini-14 I have shot in the past. The really irritation is the flattened primer at the reloading stage, when inserting a new fresh primer. One of the best tools for determining a load that may be getting a little too high pressure is to look at how the primer looks and how flattened it is. With my reloads, the primer on the majority of loads, is already flattened before even firing. So, now it's a lot more difficult to discern pressure signs in the fired round. Edited August 19, 2009 by Darth AkSarBen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GregM1 241 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) with the barrel being the same barrel stock as the 7.62x39 barrels, and simply being underbored. . Would this make the 223 barrel a H-Bar? *some interesting info below* I was reading on another forum, a person that recently aquired the 5.45x39 saiga and his manual list his barrel as a heavy barrel. Edited August 20, 2009 by GregM1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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