mike12345 18 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 heres my rigs. 11 and 8in SBS the only problem is now that I SBS'd both of them I want a full size 18+ in shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 On the 8" SBS, where did you get the folding stock mechanism with the built in buffer tube adapter and who makes it? Ace? I like that route better that an ace with the pignose adapter. Nice shotguns by the way. Is your 11" barrel internally threaded? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sapper1371usmc 107 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Also, is that an MAA railed handguard? If so, how do you like it? Does it lock up solid? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Also, is that an MAA railed handguard? If so, how do you like it? Does it lock up solid? DPH Tri-rail in pic 1. Also I think he is using the ACE AR-Folding mech. It is a nice product. Both are great looking guns. Do you prefer the 8" or 11" the best? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 (edited) all things considered, I like the 11in barrel better. I havent crono'd these but tony posted info that states you only lose 100FPS at the muzzle going from 18 to 11in. The hinge on the left side of the 8in gun for the folding stock gets in the way. you have to worry about smacking your face. It is an ace stock adaptor but it needed to be machined, there is a raised are on the back you have to mill off. I am not using chokes, yet. For serious use, I run Hornady TAP 00B 8 pellot. Higher muzzle velocity (1600FPS in a normal shotgun)It gives Fist size groops even without the choke. I need to crono the damn things so I know what im working with... Edited December 3, 2009 by mike123456 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 I like that 11" gun! As far as wanting a 19" gun now, I think you need one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BpS12 512 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Hmm, trying to envision the 11" Bullpuped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paladin 37 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Nice! my 12" that I'm building has the same forearm and stock setup, I also run a MRD. Now I know what it's going to look like! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hersir 0 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Great looking Saigas. What kind of folding mechanism is on the shorter one with the CTR stock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Will486 7 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 What kind of folding mechanism is on the shorter one with the CTR stock? http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-254/ACE-Saiga-folding-AR15/Detail At OP or Paladin- Could you give more specific details on what is required to attach this Ace folder to the receiver? Im considering picking one up as it would make transporting the rifle much easier but Im unsure about attaching it.. Is this "machining" something the average joe can do in his garage with a dremel? Also, when unfolded is it solid? No wobbles, stiff spring? Thanks for any help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Looking good. I'm curious though, how reliably does the 11" cycle? It looks like it still has the original length gas tube, so I assume you had to really open up the ports? Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MCASgt New River 10,036 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 mike123456, Just so we can keep a gallery going would you mind posting only the pics in the SBS/SBR sticky? This gives people a good starting place to invision a new build. Thanks, MCASSgt New River Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted December 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 I wasent sure where this went, I diden't know you added a NFA section. The folding stock mech is screwed into one of Tromix rear reciever plates. The plate is welded on. I supose you could take a dremel to it, it would be a lot easyer if you know a place that has a mill to do it right. It only takes a few seconds to mill it off. The gas ports on the 11in were originaly .073 I believe and opened to .082 drilled on an angle backwards. If Im remembering correctly. It was a while ago I actualy took the block off and drilled the holes. Its 100% reliable so far, havent had a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 The gas ports on the 11in were originaly .073 I believe and opened to .082 drilled on an angle backwards. If Im remembering correctly. It was a while ago I actualy took the block off and drilled the holes. Its 100% reliable so far, havent had a problem. Cool Have you shot the Federal bulk ammo through it yet? That's my "range ammo" if I'm wanting to shoot for more than an hour. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted December 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 (edited) I have only used buckshot & slugs. I try to shoot what I'd really use, birdshot isent on the menu. remington 2 & 3/4in 12 pellot 00B hornady TAP 2 & 3/4in 8 pellot 00B Winchester 3in 15 pellot 00B winchester 3in 1 oz slugs all run fine. Edited December 4, 2009 by mike123456 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 No problem. It makes sense to shoot what you'd want to use in it. I was just considering doing a SBS conversion on mine and was curious if a setup like yours would run Federal birdshot. It's fine though, but if you ever DO shoot lighter loads, I'd be interested in hearing how they worked for you. Thanks Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmop 0 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Corbin, I'm working on my 12" sbr, with the gas port in the factory position. I did a test firing this weekend with the 4 holes, .098" diameter. It would cycle high base stuff fine (as expected) but would not quite cycle low base. Usually the empty round would get caught and hold the bolt back, occasionally the bolt would be closed, hammer back, on the spent round. It looks like it cycles the action far enough to just hit the ejector most of the time. I'm using the factory puck and a Gunfixer plug. I'm going to try opening the ports up to .110" to see if that does the trick. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 That's what I figured. If you haven't already, check out THIS thread. It discusses various barrel lengths and their corresponding port sizes. A few of interest might be: My personal gun is a 12". I don't care for the blast that comes off those 8" tubes right in front of my face. There is no definitive answer as to how short you can cut the barrel, since the power level of the shell makes such a huge difference as to whether the gun will cycle or not. If you want to shoot bird shot and not have enormous gas ports, the gas block needs to be moved back 2" for a 12" gun and 3.75" for an 8" gun. With that gas port position, you can use the factory .073" size gas port holes. However, if you don't mind running over-size gas port holes and only shoot magnum shells, you can cut the barrel back to 11" and leave your factory gas system as-is. Since then, I have standardized the gas block positions to either 3.75" back on 8"- 10" guns, and 2" back on 11-14" guns. Move the gas system back 2" for the 12" gun. Then you can run the standard gas port configuration of 4ea .073" gas ports. You can use the S-12 cut to 11 1/2 inches with no mods to the gas port. However you will need to use high brass loads or have someone thread the barrel for choke tubes. The weapon will function with lighter loads when it has been restricted with a mod or full choke tube. This was the configuration I used on the "Beast" in the Vankiller video. C&S Metall-Werkes indicated that they go to 12.5" with the block in the original location and angle drill all four of the original ports to 0.113" and add a fifth port opposite the plunger in the gas block. Both of the above specify that their S12s will run light bird loads. Start by ensuring that your Saiga12 is THOROUGHLY broken in (over 200rds). Then once you cut and over-drill the holes, you have some additional tuning options that include: (1) Polishing the hammer face and underside of the bolt carrier to ensure more fluid cycling of the action (2) Replacing the front recoil spring with a 1911 spring (3) Adding a fifth gas port and opening up the 'gas hole' in the gas block (4) Re-contouring/polishing the feed ramp portion of the barrel to provide more fluid loading of rounds (5) Use a short Russian choke (medium) or (full) OR use a Polychoke and increase the choke on low power birdshot Hope this helps. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jmop 0 Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 Yeah, I've read that thread but my form 1 went through a while back and I wanted to test it. Plus I didn't have then proper end mill for the larger hole size, I figured it was worth a shot and would indicate how much head room there is on the .113 port hole size. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike12345 18 Posted December 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2009 (edited) I dont think I would open the gas ports that wide. When you try to shoot heavyer loads like 3in 15 pellot 00B your bolt will cycle WAY too fast. IMO It's probably better to just not shoot the birdshot if it wont cycle. Edited December 11, 2009 by mike123456 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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