Diggler 0 Posted April 29, 2005 Report Share Posted April 29, 2005 I'm looking for a side mount and red dot for my S-12. It's going to be both a hunting and home defense gun after I get the choke tubes installed. Since this is a shotgun and not a rifle where I'll be trying to hit stuff out to 200 yards or so, I want to keep it cheap but reliable. Hoping to spend under $50 each on the optic and mount. Are the foreign rails made in Belarus a good choice? I have seen these on gunbroker for $25 plus shipping. Are they centered to the bore, and if not, would it really matter on a shotgun while guiding birdshot/buckshot patterns? How about slugs? And, what is an inexpensive red dot optic that I can expect to stand up to the recoil of 3" magnum turkey loads? Hopefully, with a relatively fine dot. Or am I looking for something that doesn't exist? Lots of questions... thanks for your help Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 I have a KOBRA that I picked up from Tantal that I'm real happy with (mounted on an AK). Priced a little higher than you were looking for at $180 shipped (includes mount). Tantals has several others to choose from, some priced a little less. I also have one of the low style mounts that you discribed, I'll call it average in construction-haven't mounted optics on it yet but I ordered a Hakko 24 for it, to be used on my Saiga 12. I also have a pretty decent closed tube style made by Taso that was really great for the price (under $50), but it was used for snap shooting on a pump class paintball gun, don't know how well it would hold up on a 12ga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted April 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Yeah I'm more worried about something that will hold up to the recoil more than the accuracy... even the best turkey chokes still will have a dense 20" pattern at 30+ yards... that's a lot of room for error in a shotgun. Even if it shifts POA 4" at 50 yards, that is definitely still a good kill shot. I'll look into that Hakko and see what they have to offer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jnewt 0 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 PK-AS-S and love it. Tantal has them for $220 shipped. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Saiga 12 For Teh Win 0 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Friend of mine had a crappy $30 tasco reddot on his AK, couldnt handle the recoil with a $40 mount. The mount had like 4 set screws, was definately not QD, was very solid, but the red dot was moving all over the place. I imagine your gonna need to spend some money for a reddot that will handle a 12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 I like the Hakko sight that has the 4 different reticles and can handle any recoil. They go for about $140. I've heard they're going to make an off-brand version too that'll cost half as much. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 At the moment I'm using a BP-2 low mount with a weaver rail and the cheapest Walmart reddot I have not yet had the chance to shoot it but that same red dot is on my AR and it works great. The one on my AR was only bore sighted and shot great at 50 yards in a 3 gun match firing at little poppers. It seems to hold a good zero so untill it gives me a reason to up grade I'll keep it. You can get the BP-2 from Tantal or Freedom Optics they are the same price which ever you choose. While your looking check out the rest of the optics. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted April 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 topmaul that's what I like to hear. Keep us posted after you shoot it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted April 30, 2005 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Has anyone used the Taiga-2u? It has an interchangeable eyepiece to switch between 1x and 2.5x, which would be a value because I'd switch it between my WASR and my Saiga12 depending on the season. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7152048909 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tomac 0 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 PK-AS-S and love it. Tantal has them for $220 shipped. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> +1. Tomac Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chris410 0 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 Has anyone used the Taiga-2u? It has an interchangeable eyepiece to switch between 1x and 2.5x, which would be a value because I'd switch it between my WASR and my Saiga12 depending on the season. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7152048909 <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I got one off of gunbroker a while back, its a cool sight with the screw on lense, but it CANNOT handle the 12. Mine blew apart after about 30 rounds. The rear of the thing just popped right off. I have loctited it back together and am waiting to try it out on my 410 tomorrow. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ol'smokie 0 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 (edited) Kobra from Tantal, also like the PK-AV red dot (from Yuri at Freedom optics) with my Saiga 20, shooting slugs with that. Both are Sierra Hotel. Edited April 30, 2005 by Ol'smokie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted April 30, 2005 Report Share Posted April 30, 2005 (edited) Diggler, I also would advise using a recoil buffer pad you can make one or buy one they really do work. Blackjace buffer has them and they are pretty cheap. The BP-2 is around $50.00 shipped and the Walmart red dot was around $30.00 you can find them cheaper but not by much. I would also buy an extra battery. After I shoot my shotgun I'll let you know how it held out. I have used the high scope mount made in Belarus but it's plain too high impossible to get a good stock weld so I ordered the same one but in low mount. I plan to bore site it before shooting. good luck Edited April 30, 2005 by topmaul Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Ive got a reddot on my 762 i got from walmart for 30 bucks, made by BSA. The mount is a low rise weaver i ordered from eastwave. that combo is awesome. i love it. its a blast to take out to the range, and hold a great zero after removal. The only thing i dont like about the low mount is i have to remove it every time i clean it...but the zero stays really well..its just a hassle. My dad has the same BSA reddot on his 11-87 and it runs like a champ. hold up to the recoil very well, even with the 3.5" shells. He has nothing but good things to say about thet sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 (edited) hoop762, Do you have a link to Eastwave's site? Also, does your BSA have different reticles? Edited May 1, 2005 by Diggler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Hoping to spend under $50 each on the optic and mount. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Trust me on this. Use the 12 with the irons until you can afford a decent optic, any of the Russian optics mentioned here will do nicely. EoTech is also good, as is Aimpoint with a side-rail adapter. Stay away from the $39 high-rise mount that Blackjack shows in his advertisement post. It's too high to use comfortably or practically, unless you find a wierd high cheekrest somewhere that will look wierd. There are low-rise mounts for more money from K-Var, or at the same price elsewhere. If you spend the $50 on both (if possible) you will have pissed away $50 and will curse the optic as you waste ammo chasing zero all over the paper, or miss all the time. The thing will also probably fall apart. I did as yopu propose years ago before I knew anything about equipment. Stay away from any Chinese made stuff (Leapers, BSA, NewStar, etc., even the low-end Tasco stuff) You will be throwing away your money, and you will have to save for a decent optic anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Hoping to spend under $50 each on the optic and mount. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Trust me on this. Use the 12 with the irons until you can afford a decent optic, any of the Russian optics mentioned here will do nicely. EoTech is also good, as is Aimpoint with a side-rail adapter. Stay away from the $39 high-rise mount that Blackjack shows in his advertisement post. It's too high to use comfortably or practically, unless you find a wierd high cheekrest somewhere that will look wierd. There are low-rise mounts for more money from K-Var, or at the same price elsewhere. If you spend the $50 on both (if possible) you will have pissed away $50 and will curse the optic as you waste ammo chasing zero all over the paper, or miss all the time. The thing will also probably fall apart. I did as yopu propose years ago before I knew anything about equipment. Stay away from any Chinese made stuff (Leapers, BSA, NewStar, etc., even the low-end Tasco stuff) You will be throwing away your money, and you will have to save for a decent optic anyway. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've changed my outlook somewhat after these posts... I think if I get a decent optic that can hold zero I can switch it off onto my WASR so I'll get more money's worth out of it. I like the different reticles too, so the target isn't covered. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackjack 1 Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Side rail mount with Eotech Kobra Gen-2 Red Dot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Blackjack 1 Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Hoping to spend under $50 each on the optic and mount. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Trust me on this. Use the 12 with the irons until you can afford a decent optic, any of the Russian optics mentioned here will do nicely. EoTech is also good, as is Aimpoint with a side-rail adapter. Stay away from the $39 high-rise mount that Blackjack shows in his advertisement post. It's too high to use comfortably or practically, unless you find a wierd high cheekrest somewhere that will look wierd. There are low-rise mounts for more money from K-Var, or at the same price elsewhere. If you spend the $50 on both (if possible) you will have pissed away $50 and will curse the optic as you waste ammo chasing zero all over the paper, or miss all the time. The thing will also probably fall apart. I did as yopu propose years ago before I knew anything about equipment. Stay away from any Chinese made stuff (Leapers, BSA, NewStar, etc., even the low-end Tasco stuff) You will be throwing away your money, and you will have to save for a decent optic anyway. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I've changed my outlook somewhat after these posts... I think if I get a decent optic that can hold zero I can switch it off onto my WASR so I'll get more money's worth out of it. I like the different reticles too, so the target isn't covered. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Stay away from the $39 high-rise mount that Blackjack shows in his advertisement post. It's too high to use comfortably or practically, unless you find a wierd high cheekrest somewhere that will look wierd. That side rail mount does come in a low profile version, all my sources are out of them at the present time. Granted the high profile mount is a bit high but I do offer cheek rests for the ACE tubular stocks as well as the CAR stocks. The iron sights can still be used with the high profile mount. The new ACE stocks / mount system allows the stock to be raised or lowered as needed for better eye alignment. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 (edited) Kind of leaning towards a Kobra right now... one concern I have is how it seems to stick out behind the receiver. I have a Romy folding wire stock on it... would I be in danger of getting the corner of the Kobra embedded in my cheek? I shot some 3" magnums out of it and forgot to make sure that the rear sling mount was rotated forward and it hit me in the upper lip... I hate to think of what one of those corners could do. ETA: Dang you guys... the more I look around the more money I'm going to spend. The PK-AS... how does it do with slugs out to 100 yards or so, since it's offset? Does it usually come with the mounting rail, or isn't that included in the $220? I like the idea of being able to use it in the daytime/with dead batteries. Edited May 1, 2005 by Diggler Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jnewt 0 Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Have not tried it out with slugs but I wil try and do so next weekend. The optic comes as pictured with mount. There is also another PK-AS optic with mounts on a rail. A low profile mount from Tantal would work great with that type. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Do you have a link to Eastwave's site? http://www.eastwave.ca/ from there you can select scopes, or mounts, or whatever you need.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 Thanks guys. Eastwave looks to have good prices. Those PK series seem to be strictly red dot sights, right? I have different red dots on some guns and I like the different reticles. I wish they had different ones... Sometimes a single red dot is good for certain applications, and sometimes you need to actually see the target instead of having a big red dot on it. Are the ATN line of optics any good? http://www.atncorp.com/DayOptics/ReflexSig...traSightDigital Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted May 1, 2005 Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 You might want to check out the Hakko. Supposed to be high quality components made in Japan and multi reticle http://www.bowerstactical.com/cgi-bin/stor...35.4625&ppi=PID I don't know if ATN can hold up to the recoil. Perhaps someone else has tried it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Diggler 0 Posted May 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 1, 2005 For shotgun use, I like these types of reticles because I turkey hunt more than anything, and you can see the head/neck better in case the target moves out of the way... they don't stay still for long. Plus, the head/neck is pretty small and easy to cover up with a 4moa dot. I'm still looking for other makers that have these types of reticles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 You might want to check out the Hakko. Supposed to be high quality components made in Japan and multi reticle Didn't I mention that Glad to see someone else likes them as much as me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 You might want to check out the Hakko. Supposed to be high quality components made in Japan and multi reticle Didn't I mention that Glad to see someone else likes them as much as me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> DOH! I thought it sounded familiar when I was typing it. That's right, I checked it out after your recommendation. Thanks bro. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jnewt 0 Posted May 2, 2005 Report Share Posted May 2, 2005 (edited) Edited May 2, 2005 by jnewt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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