Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
jeepranch

AK54r vs Saiga 308

Recommended Posts

I take offense to the things that he has said.

 

 

Chase - Your post about Azrial is simply an ad hominem attack in which you don't put forth anything of substance, but instead use childish terms such as "dick" and "peice [apparently meaning piece] of shit" to describe another member on this board. Your juvenile attack has nothing to do with the validity of the points made by Azrial. His points are valid, and you obviously cannot refute them with actual points of substance. My advice to you: stop being so easily offended. I wasn't offended when you contemplated my reaction if I had been called a "hysterical fag" or when you stated erroneously that I have my nose up someone's butt. I realized you are just not someone who deals well with another person pointing out the flaws in your arguments.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I take offense to the things that he has said.

 

 

Chase - Your post about Azrial is simply an ad hominem attack in which you don't put forth anything of substance, but instead use childish terms such as "dick" and "peice [apparently meaning piece] of shit" to describe another member on this board. Your juvenile attack has nothing to do with the validity of the points made by Azrial. His points are valid, and you obviously cannot refute them with actual points of substance. My advice to you: stop being so easily offended. I wasn't offended when you contemplated my reaction if I had been called a "hysterical fag" or when you stated erroneously that I have my nose up someone's butt. I realized you are just not someone who deals well with another person pointing out the flaws in your arguments.

 

 

 

Says the newly joined member who appears to only be here to stand up for a very incorrect pompous ass and neg those who make valid points against him...

 

Is there a personality split unfolding right here in front of us?

 

 

 

 

 

Edit: Az does not put forth anything of substance when he calls everyone liars. He states that what they have done is impossible, and they are therefore liars, that is not substance, it is opinion, mistaken opinion at that.

Edited by mav
  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Says the newly joined member who appears to only be here to stand up for a very incorrect pompous ass and neg those who make valid points against him...

 

Is there a personality split unfolding right here in front of us?

 

I was wondering that myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK so check this out...

 

Ammo & Lace joined as a member today at 2:03 PM.... 22 minutes later was responding to my message stating that "Azrial has more knowledge than you have ever thought about having" and "has wisdom that you are simply jealous of"

 

Well Ammo & Lace you must have certainly done a lot of reading in those 22 minutes to claim that he has so much wisdom. Or maybe it could be that you are not who you seem. HHHMMMMMMMMM interesting hahahaha. I have nothing more to say to you troll.

 

Chase

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Edit: Az does not put forth anything of substance when he calls everyone liars. He states that what they have done is impossible, and they are therefore liars, that is not substance, it is opinion, mistaken opinion at that.

 

Actually, if you would ever bother to read what I have written instead of having a knee jerk reaction you would see where I have pointed out very real reasons why it is completely impractical to build a rifle that would fire both 7.62x54R and 7.62x51 NATO. If that is not "of substance" to you, why are you even bothering to read this board, you obviously don't understand anything written here.

 

As to Ammo & Lace, I "think" that we, meaning several members of this board, met her a GA Tea Party Rally where I encouraged forum participation, She said then that she was a long term reader. Think what you like, but she is not I and certainly not the first "new member" (ie Matt308) to have a strong opinion.

 

I think that it would be a great idea however, and one that has been expressed before, to have the Admins create a list of people that have multiple logins through the same IP. They should then publish that list of shame so that we all know who is doing this and then ban them if they do it again. For families that are members, like Cobra and Racegal, an exception should be made.

 

So, does that have your or any other member's support? Or would this be a problem for you?

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you can't shoot a group with an AK that small.. WHY do you bash everyone on here that CAN with a Saiga??

It's not that I can't, it's that the rifle can't!

 

I am not commenting on your marksmanship, or anyone here I have not shot with, I am talking about the intrinsic accuracy of the rifle! Do you honestly not know the difference?

 

My only problem with your all the miraculously small group sizes that all of you are reporting is that nobody ever seems to be able to shoot one publicly where there are other well known members attending. No seems to be able to duplicate them in competition either. Why do you suppose that is?

 

Look don'tt bother to answer, I really don't care what you claim your rifle will shoot. For the benefit of the interested readers, I am not bashing the Saiga .308, it is a fine rifle well worth owning. It is just not a sharpshooter. If you want that you are barking up the wrong tree. You have been presented with two different opinions here. One would have you believe that you can but a 1-1.5 MOA Saiga .308 for about $400.

 

The other, being myself, tells you that there is no way that is going to happen. If you buy one and after really doing your part marksmanship wise find that it will not shoot near as well as some here would have you belive, well you know who to thank/blame. :lolol:

Edited by Azrial
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

I think that it would be a great idea however, and one that has been expressed before, to have the Admins create a list of people that have multiple logins through the same IP. They should then publish that list of shame so that we all know who is doing this and then ban them if they do it again. For families that are members, like Cobra and Racegal, an exception should be made.

 

 

 

 

 

+1 I agree with that 100%

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can easily get around IP restrictions by using a free proxy.

Well you can get around some, but you better have broadband and it will still be slow. Also it Will cost you as most of the free methods will not allow you to post, which is the problem that we are talking about.

 

So you are quite correct, as long as money and time are no object. If that is the case, why not buy the site and kick off everybody that you do not like? :lolol:

 

Personally, I can only think of one guy that I would boot out of here!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can easily get around IP restrictions by using a free proxy.

Well you can get around some, but you better have broadband and it will still be slow. Also it Will cost you as most of the free methods will not allow you to post, which is the problem that we are talking about.

 

So you are quite correct, as long as money and time are no object. If that is the case, why not buy the site and kick off everybody that you do not like? :lolol:

 

Personally, I can only think of one guy that I would boot out of here!

 

Me!! Hahaha, kidding. I'm loved by all. But there a few here I'd give the boot too, just because every response shouldn't be a sarcastic one. It's funny at first, but then it gets old and very asinine. People get discouraged from posting questions because the last thing they want is for someone to sarcastically talk down to them and treat them like an idiot or a child.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Says the newly joined member who appears to only be here to stand up for a very incorrect pompous ass and neg those who make valid points against him...

 

Is there a personality split unfolding right here in front of us?

 

 

 

I understand why Chase responded to me as I challenged his views.

 

But let me get this straight: Chase, a MALE newbie, is allowed to attack a seasoned member of your board by calling him a "dick" and "a peice (as in orginal) of shit." You say nothing.

 

I have read your board for a while before officially joining it. I joined because quite a few of your members really seem to know a lot, and one of those is certainly Azrial.

 

Upon reading Chase's attack, I thought it was unsubstantiated. When I, a FEMALE newbie, pointed out how ridiculous Chase was being by using name calling to respond to a seasoned member, you attack me. Should I be offended? Or should I simply understand that this is why there are not a lot of females participating on this board?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Says the newly joined member who appears to only be here to stand up for a very incorrect pompous ass and neg those who make valid points against him...

 

Is there a personality split unfolding right here in front of us?

 

 

 

I understand why Chase responded to me as I challenged his views.

 

But let me get this straight: Chase, a MALE newbie, is allowed to attack a seasoned member of your board by calling him a "dick" and "a peice (as in orginal) of shit." You say nothing.

 

I have read your board for a while before officially joining it. I joined because quite a few of your members really seem to know a lot, and one of those is certainly Azrial.

 

Upon reading Chase's attack, I thought it was unsubstantiated. When I, a FEMALE newbie, pointed out how ridiculous Chase was being by using name calling to respond to a seasoned member, you attack me. Should I be offended? Or should I simply understand that this is why there are not a lot of females participating on this board?

 

 

Personally I dont think gender has anything to do with the arguement thats been going on here, and I still dont think it is just because you happen to be a woman. I think most poeple on this forum and most firearms forums are all for more female shooters. Im a member of Calguns and encouraged my gf to join and now shes going to help out at the calguns booth at the local gunshow with me next weekend. I think your being hyper sensitive. If you were African American would you be pulling the "black card" right now. You did not care at all when I said I didnt appreciate gay slurs being thrown around but now you feel that your being attacked because your a woman??

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or should I simply understand that this is why there are not a lot of females participating on this board?[/size][/font]

 

There aren't many. I can think of three or four off the top of my head that actively post, that's about it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I dont think gender has anything to do with the arguement thats been going on here, and I still dont think it is just because you happen to be a woman. I think most poeple on this forum and most firearms forums are all for more female shooters.

 

Still, there's been no explanation for why you were allowed to attack Azrial by calling him names without yourself being attacked for your actions, but I was attacked when I challenged your childish behavior. I didn't come here to make enemies but right is right and wrong is wrong. I would hope our next interchange would be more pleasant.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I dont think gender has anything to do with the arguement thats been going on here, and I still dont think it is just because you happen to be a woman. I think most poeple on this forum and most firearms forums are all for more female shooters.

 

Still, there's been no explanation for why you were allowed to attack Azrial by calling him names without yourself being attacked for your actions, but I was attacked when I challenged your childish behavior. I didn't come here to make enemies but right is right and wrong is wrong. I would hope our next interchange would be more pleasant.

 

I'm sorry, why did you neg my response to Azrial? I was being serious, there are other members that are absolute asses, and you neg me for it? Good going.

 

ETA: I wasn't even attacking him in any way. If that's what you thought, you read too much into it. And I'm pretty Azrial can fight his own battles, you don't need to chime in on everything.

Edited by VaiFanatic90
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Still, there's been no explanation for why you were allowed to attack Azrial by calling him names without yourself being attacked for your actions, but I was attacked when I challenged your childish behavior. I didn't come here to make enemies but right is right and wrong is wrong. I would hope our next interchange would be more pleasant.

 

 

 

There has been no explanation for why Azrial was allowed to call myself and others names, where were you for that exchange? Why is your indignation one sided?

 

Right is right, and wrong is wrong, and it is wrong of Az to call people liars because their experience disagrees with his opinions.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Personally, I can only think of one guy that I would boot out of here!

 

 

Is it me? Surely I haven't gotten under your skin that much, hell we agree about 80% of the time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Still, there's been no explanation for why you were allowed to attack Azrial by calling him names without yourself being attacked for your actions, but I was attacked when I challenged your childish behavior. I didn't come here to make enemies but right is right and wrong is wrong. I would hope our next interchange would be more pleasant.

 

 

 

There has been no explanation for why Azrial was allowed to call myself and others names, where were you for that exchange? Why is your indignation one sided?

 

Right is right, and wrong is wrong, and it is wrong of Az to call people liars because their experience disagrees with his opinions.

 

I still like how I get negged for starting with a joke, then relating to Azrial of how I'd boot certain members as well, just because their behavior is intolerable. What goes around...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I dont think gender has anything to do with the arguement thats been going on here, and I still dont think it is just because you happen to be a woman. I think most poeple on this forum and most firearms forums are all for more female shooters.

 

Still, there's been no explanation for why you were allowed to attack Azrial by calling him names without yourself being attacked for your actions, but I was attacked when I challenged your childish behavior. I didn't come here to make enemies but right is right and wrong is wrong. I would hope our next interchange would be more pleasant.

 

I'm sorry, why did you neg my response to Azrial? I was being serious, there are other members that are absolute asses, and you neg me for it? Good going.

 

ETA: I wasn't even attacking him in any way. If that's what you thought, you read too much into it. And I'm pretty Azrial can fight his own battles, you don't need to chime in on everything.

 

I meant to hit the reply button to agree with you. I could not undo once I hit the wrong button.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I can only think of one guy that I would boot out of here!

Is it me? Surely I haven't gotten under your skin that much, hell we agree about 80% of the time.

Nope, not you at all. I have no problem with a post getting heated, it is people that carry this stuff from thread to thread to thread that get on my nerves. Many times to threads that have not even the most remote of similarities. Despite the constant misuse of the word, THAT is a Troll.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

"No Albert, I admit, I can not shoot a "group" anywhere near that size with an AK. I can however shoot a "hole" far smaller than that with my M1A or my Remington PSS."............Azrial.....

 

If you can't shoot a group with an AK that small.. WHY do you bash everyone on here that CAN with a Saiga??

 

It's not that I can't, it's that the rifle can't!

 

I am not commenting on your marksmanship, or anyone here I have not shot with, I am talking about the intrinsic accuracy of the rifle! Do you honestly not know the difference?

 

 

um.. nope I have idea what 'intrinsic accuracy' is and don't care..

 

The point is YOU admitted YOU CAN NOT SHOOT AN AK (or variant in this case) as TIGHT as some of US shooters on here.

 

which means you are being one sided and opinionated... :blues: and slamming people here that can...:chris:

 

so whom is it you'd like to boot?? me, mav, chase?? :lolol: not that I give a flying fletch...

 

I DO applaud your comments to the new people that Saigas are good field rifles.. :super:

 

for that part I give you a :beer:

 

 

Albert

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, I'm a real person. Long time lurker, first time poster. I just take offense you your claims to know everything and put everyone else down, regardless of your post count. Do you think that makes you king of the internet or something?

 

But hey, maybe you really are putting people down in a righteous attempt to dispel the frequent claims that some people can get their Saiga to do a decent group.

 

I know mine can, and your claims of what a great shot you are and your post count just don't impress me.

I kind of like to get the know people myslef, before I rush in and make such rash statements as the one that you made above.

 

Please list all or even a few of the posts where I have told everyone what a "great shot" I am....

 

Thanks! :D

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally I dont think gender has anything to do with the arguement thats been going on here, and I still dont think it is just because you happen to be a woman. I think most poeple on this forum and most firearms forums are all for more female shooters.

 

Still, there's been no explanation for why you were allowed to attack Azrial by calling him names without yourself being attacked for your actions, but I was attacked when I challenged your childish behavior. I didn't come here to make enemies but right is right and wrong is wrong. I would hope our next interchange would be more pleasant.

 

I'm sorry, why did you neg my response to Azrial? I was being serious, there are other members that are absolute asses, and you neg me for it? Good going.

 

ETA: I wasn't even attacking him in any way. If that's what you thought, you read too much into it. And I'm pretty Azrial can fight his own battles, you don't need to chime in on everything.

 

I meant to hit the reply button to agree with you. I could not undo once I hit the wrong button.

 

Okay, accidents happen. It's all good, thanks for clearing that up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well all of this controversy has definately peaked my interest. I have been on the fence about picking up another .308, but I think that one (Saiga) may be in my future. I have read numerous reports about their accuracy, both good or bad, and all of which is confusing.

 

How about this proposition. I will purchase one in the next few weeks, restore/convert it and then run it through the gauntlet at one of our sniper practices. We have 5 designated snipers on the team including myself, all with roughly the same amount of training. Five different shooters on one gun should take a lot of the guestimation out of the equation.

 

I will post the results and photos when the testing is completed in a few weeks (going to take that long with the new baby here...ie: priorites) Best case scenario is that the thing shoots well and I have another rifle for the collection. Worst case scenario is that it does not shoot well and I have to sell the thing. Either way, I will take one for the team :smoke:

 

I know that this will not settle the debate about the accuracy, but maybe offer some more insight into the issue. Plus, I get another rifle out of the deal :super:

Edited by GeorgiaPD
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

GeorgiaPD.. thats up to you man.. 5 different TRAINED folks :ph34r: shooting though would be great.. :super:

 

Mine out of the BOX was great before conversion.. I can't see anyones getting worse after.

 

TxMark and I have both been shooting our respective 308s and his groups are down to 1 1/2" at 100 yards with 10 rounds while being TOTALLY locked down & benched... I'm in the 2" range also but with just 3-5 shots.. just got to 'mind the heat' and allow time between shots..

 

We've both been putting up RANGE REPORTS for a month now.. Azrial has yet to jump on him.. :unsure:

 

 

Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well all of this controversy has definately peaked my interest. I have been on the fence about picking up another .308, but I think that one (Saiga) may be in my future. I have read numerous reports about their accuracy, both good or bad, and all of which is confusing.

 

How about this proposition. I will purchase one in the next few weeks, restore/convert it and then run it through the gauntlet at one of our sniper practices. We have 5 designated snipers on the team including myself, all with roughly the same amount of training. Five different shooters on one gun should take a lot of the guestimation out of the equation.

 

I will post the results and photos when the testing is completed in a few weeks (going to take that long with the new baby here...ie: priorites) Best case scenario is that the thing shoots well and I have another rifle for the collection. Worst case scenario is that it does not shoot well and I have to sell the thing. Either way, I will take one for the team :smoke:

 

I know that this will not settle the debate about the accuracy, but maybe offer some more insight into the issue. Plus, I get another rifle out of the deal :super:

 

 

 

You will just take any excuse you can to buy another rifle wont you? Despicable. I too am despicable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ammo & Lace please explain something to me......

 

You claim that right is right and wrong is wrong.... yet you stand up for Azrials dissrespectful comments and denounce me for my mine?? Only because he has so much knowledge??? There is no class system here. If your going to stand up for someone saying innapropriate things and then denounce me for the same thing than your arguement has no base.

 

Also you keep claiming that you were somehow attacked????? where??? when???? I've read this thread twice trying to figure out where you felt attacked. NOBODY has said even ONE negative thing to or about you. People simply questioned whether or not you were a real person. Thats it!!

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nope, I'm a real person. Long time lurker, first time poster. I just take offense you your claims to know everything and put everyone else down, regardless of your post count. Do you think that makes you king of the internet or something?

 

But hey, maybe you really are putting people down in a righteous attempt to dispel the frequent claims that some people can get their Saiga to do a decent group.

 

I know mine can, and your claims of what a great shot you are and your post count just don't impress me.

I kind of like to get the know people myslef, before I rush in and make such rash statements as the one that you made above.

 

Please list all or even a few of the posts where I have told everyone what a "great shot" I am....

 

Thanks! :D

 

Okay.

 

September 7 in "recrowning the 308"

 

You said: "Let's not talk about my marksmanship, you have no idea what level of shooter I am"

 

Two days later in the same forum, you said: "I have shot more of these rifles then I care to admit and I know what they will do. I also shot NRA High Power for years and was quite competitive doing so."

 

I'm only making judgments based off of what I've read, which are your own words. There's plenty to work with.

Edited by Dudethebagman
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

Tromix - Lead Delivery Systems
Dinzag Arms
CHAOS, Inc
Mississippi Auto Arms, Inc
Cobra's Custom
Carolina Shooters Supply
R & R Targets
LONE STAR ARMS
SGM Tactical
Mach 1 Arsenal
K-VAR
C&S Metall-Werkes
American Specialty Ammo
Csspecs Magazines
Phoenix Technology
Evlutionz LLC


  • Chatbox

    Load More
    You don't have permission to chat.
×