Shooting too fast

[tonyhunt 15]

Has anyone had a problem in their gun when firing too fast?

A couple times the hammer dropped with the receiver and I had a loaded chamber with the hammer down.

Is this common?

[Shadoh 16]

That shouldnt happen. That second hook to the rear of the trigger group is suppose to lock down the hammer even if you keep holding the trigger after the gun fires. Something isnt right.

[tonyhunt 15]

That shouldnt happen. That second hook to the rear of the trigger group is suppose to lock down the hammer even if you keep holding the trigger after the gun fires. Something isnt right.

It does lock the hammer back when I hold down the trigger, but when I pull for the 2nd shot it let's the hammer down on the back of the carrier when it's not in battery.

[rjrivero 50]

It sounds like the "hook" isn't catching it. When you pull the trigger, and hold it down, the hammer gets cocked by the carrier coming back. It catches on the hammer catch, toward the back. When you release the trigger to cycle it again, the hammer should be caught by the sear (single sided on the left toward the front of the trigger.) From your description, it sounds like the sear isn't engaging.

 

Make sure the entire mechanism has full range of motion. If you're using a bolt in trigger guard, sometimes the nuts on the inside of the receiver prevent full motion of the firing group. The other possibility is that the sear or hammer are out of spec.

[tonyhunt 15]

Both hooks work. I can hold the trigger, push down the hammer until the sear catches it, and when I release the trigger the trigger hook catches it.

The trigger guard bolts don't interfere.

I think it's because I'm pulling the trigger after the carrier has left the hammer, but before the carrier is all the way forward.

 

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/935/00saigaparts.jpg

[rjrivero 50]

Does your gun go into battery reliably?

 

I ask because I have found on mine that when the bolt carrier goes forward, it would sometimes hang up just out of battery. The rear part of the bolt that rotates to lock wasn't locking smoothly.

 

I fixed this issue by using a dremel with a fine sanding disk to smooth the transition in the tunnel and the back of the tab on the bolt that runs in that tunnel. Now it's smooth as butter.

 

If it's not locking into battery, the hammer won't hit the firing pin when you pull the trigger and it will cause a mis fire as you are describing.

[tonyhunt 15]

Does your gun go into battery reliably?

 

I ask because I have found on mine that when the bolt carrier goes forward, it would sometimes hang up just out of battery. The rear part of the bolt that rotates to lock wasn't locking smoothly.

 

I fixed this issue by using a dremel with a fine sanding disk to smooth the transition in the tunnel and the back of the tab on the bolt that runs in that tunnel. Now it's smooth as butter.

 

If it's not locking into battery, the hammer won't hit the firing pin when you pull the trigger and it will cause a mis fire as you are describing.

It did that once but it was because of an FTF.

It hasn't failed to go into battery without FTFing.

Is it possible to just be pulling the trigger too fast?

I had the light recoil spring in at the time, but I've since taken it out because it runs just fine with the factory spring (long story)

I haven't shot it since then except for a couple test fires to check mods, could that be it perhaps?

[BuzzNectar 35]

i have expierenced this with two ak's and one saiga-12.both with the tapco G2.more than likely the profile of the hammer is not correct.to test this put your gun back togeather except leave the top cover off.hold the trigger down and cycle the gun.the hammer should fail to catch the disconnector and just follow the bolt back.if this the case then its 99% likely the hammer profile is off(usually due to a trigger job gone too far).you wont notice a difference if you are holding the trigger and pressing the hammer down with your finger,as it will travel further than when triped by the bolt.hope this helps.i assume its converted and if this turns out to be your problem then for a quick fix you can swap out and use the original hammer if you still have the left overs.good luck....oh yeah dont forget if you put the original hammer back in you will be down 1 part for 922r.

[rjrivero 50]

Mods.....always a good place to start looking. What mods were you testing? I haven't met ANYONE who can cycle a trigger faster than a gun can cycle, fwiw.

[tonyhunt 15]

Mods.....always a good place to start looking. What mods were you testing? I haven't met ANYONE who can cycle a trigger faster than a gun can cycle, fwiw.

Just basic stuff like see which puck is more effective, test which spring worked better, which forearm functions best. Testing would have probably been a better word choice.

All that was done after the "skipping" occured though, because I haven't been to a range since then, I just test in my backyard.

 

http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-205/%232-Competition-Reduced-Power/Detail

 

This spring was in it when it happened, could that have been the problem?

Perhaps the action wasn't cycling as fast because of it.

[tonyhunt 15]

i have expierenced this with two ak's and one saiga-12.both with the tapco G2.more than likely the profile of the hammer is not correct.to test this put your gun back togeather except leave the top cover off.hold the trigger down and cycle the gun.the hammer should fail to catch the disconnector and just follow the bolt back.if this the case then its 99% likely the hammer profile is off(usually due to a trigger job gone too far).you wont notice a difference if you are holding the trigger and pressing the hammer down with your finger,as it will travel further than when triped by the bolt.hope this helps.i assume its converted and if this turns out to be your problem then for a quick fix you can swap out and use the original hammer if you still have the left overs.good luck....oh yeah dont forget if you put the original hammer back in you will be down 1 part for 922r.

When I hold down the trigger and pull the bolt back the sear catches the hammer.

[geepelton 105]

Have you done anything with the hammer? Re-profile it or polish it or anything with it?

[tonyhunt 15]

Have you done anything with the hammer? Re-profile it or polish it or anything with it?

I ground the profile to be a little smoother and polished it.

[hobbyshooter 59]

This has happened to me once. A shell fed lazily and when I pulled the trigger with the gun out of battery the hammer hit the back of the bolt carrier and pushed it into battery.

[geepelton 105]

I ground and polish my hammer a little to far, it did not look any different but it would not reset. I put my stock hammer back in a presto it worked again. My suggestion to you would be put the stock hammer in and see if it works. If it works you found the problem and it cost you nothing. Good luck!!

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Maybe these will help.... double click on the pics to see the ultra microscopic words, lol.

 

 

 

 

I think your problem may be a combination of improper hammer profile and an out of battery condition. If the hammer isn't profiled right it will hit the top of the tail of the bolt and not quite strike the firing pin with enough force to pop the primer. Incorrect profile can also create additional friction in the action, causing the carrier to not travel forward enough to lock the bolt.

Edited August 4, 2010 by evlblkwpnz

[JAldrich2008 28]

My gun does this too. I assume you are bump firing when it happens?

[peterabbits 1]

i had this problem w/ my 7.62, and i once had a double fire. my problem turned out to be i had not re-installed the BHO during conversion, but my hammer was profiled for it to be in - the hammer had a little bit of wiggle room side to side because of this, and so it was not cycling properly - it was a slight angle instead, causing it to miss the hook. i re-installed the BHO and everything seems to be good now.

[tonyhunt 15]

My gun does this too. I assume you are bump firing when it happens?

No, just trying to see how fast I can shoot it in a normal stance.

 

The hammer seems fine, it was slightly re-profiled and polished.

When I pull the bolt back, the hammer locks back wether I'm holding the trigger or not.

[tonyhunt 15]

This has happened to me once. A shell fed lazily and when I pulled the trigger with the gun out of battery the hammer hit the back of the bolt carrier and pushed it into battery.

 

 

This sounds like what it might be.

[geepelton 105]

So I take it this is not happening all the time just once in a while.

[tonyhunt 15]

So I take it this is not happening all the time just once in a while.

Happened twice on the same mag. but that was it.

I was using the promag drum (the only mag I have currently) and It hasn't caused me any problems.

[corbin 621]

I had been able to get this phenominon to occur very rarely when my Saiga 12 was newer. Only when shooting really fast though. Bumpfiring might do it too, but I don't tend to do that. Here's my rapid fire technique that's really only good for testing mag reliability and for converting money into noise. LOL

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqXEh72_XAw

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5xAB4BUd6o

 

 

I've not been able to drop the hammer out of battery on any rifle I've fired yet. Just the shotguns. When this happens, I assume my finger hit the trigger before the bolt was all the way forward and the hammer hit the extension on the back of the carrier and never had enough power to hit the firing pin hard enough. I end up with the hammer down on a live round with very little to no impact showing on the primer.

 

If you can work your trigger finger faster than the action can cycle, you're much faster than I am. I have to use my opposite finger and almost vibrate it against the trigger. If you have Facebook, try this test:

 

speed clicking

 

I'm able to do 7.7 clicks a second.

 

 

 

 

Corbin

[tonyhunt 15]

I had been able to get this phenominon to occur very rarely when my Saiga 12 was newer. Only when shooting really fast though. Bumpfiring might do it too, but I don't tend to do that. Here's my rapid fire technique that's really only good for testing mag reliability and for converting money into noise. LOL

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqXEh72_XAw

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5xAB4BUd6o

 

 

I've not been able to drop the hammer out of battery on any rifle I've fired yet. Just the shotguns. When this happens, I assume my finger hit the trigger before the bolt was all the way forward and the hammer hit the extension on the back of the carrier and never had enough power to hit the firing pin hard enough. I end up with the hammer down on a live round with very little to no impact showing on the primer.

 

If you can work your trigger finger faster than the action can cycle, you're much faster than I am. I have to use my opposite finger and almost vibrate it against the trigger. If you have Facebook, try this test:

 

speed clicking

 

I'm able to do 7.7 clicks a second.

 

 

 

 

Corbin

 

 

Holy damn, that's nice.

I'm sure now it was the low power spring causing a slow/lazy feed.

The carrier moves a lot faster with the normal spring in it.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions, and nice shooting Corbin