Need clarification to a NY law??

[XXasdf 29]

The Saiga attracts a lot of attention because it is just so damn bad-ass. Dumping a 10rd box mag at the range gets me looks. I don't need to headache of having someone stick their snout all in my business and give me a hard time over something stupid like a drum mag or some such.

 

The Saiga 12 definitely does attract some attention, both good and bad. I once took my saiga (w/ polychoke and shitty UTG quad) to a trap field

and got questioned on the legality of the weapon in NYS. I explained why it was legal due to its sporting configuration and lack of any features besides the detachable magazine. The owner did let me continue on but requested that I bring a less intimidating scatter gun on my next visit .

Edited October 19, 2010 by XXasdf

[22_Shooter 1,560]

The Saiga 12 definitely does attract some attention, both good and bad. I once took my saiga (w/ polychoke and shitty UTG quad) to a trap field

and got questioned on the legality of the weapon in NYS. I explained why it was legal due to its sporting configuration and lack of any features besides the detachable magazine. The owner did let me continue on but requested that I bring a less intimidating scatter gun on my next visit .

 

Shoulda replied with "Only if you promise to wear a pink miniskirt!", 'cause he surely is lacking any testicles if the look of a gun bothers him.

 

 

Speaking of attracting attention, I remember NailBomb saying he brought his S12 to a trap range, and the RO came running over, yelling something like "You can't use a rifle for trap shooting!!". lol

Edited October 19, 2010 by -Shooter-

[Mephis 82]

Not to promote illegal activity, but keep the gun in a condition where you can easily swap things around between what you want and what's legal.

 

Innocent until proven guilty. You aren't breaking the law until someone says so, just make sure you aren't showing it off in a situation where someone who cares would notice.

 

 

 

(I support conscientious objection to unconstitutional laws, so take what I have to say with a good dose of your own common sense.)

[mikegraffam 11]

Not to promote illegal activity, but keep the gun in a condition where you can easily swap things around between what you want and what's legal.

 

Innocent until proven guilty. You aren't breaking the law until someone says so, just make sure you aren't showing it off in a situation where someone who cares would notice.

 

 

 

(I support conscientious objection to unconstitutional laws, so take what I have to say with a good dose of your own common sense.)

 

For the other point of view on that..

 

I know of a certain someone who built a home made "silencer." He never took it out and used it, except for initial testing alone in the woods, because NY is not an NFA-friendly state. It sat on a shelf, next to the gun it could attach to for who knows how long. One random day, said individual got a knock on the door from child protective services. Apparently, his son had a number of conspicuous bruises and some teacher alerted the officials. Knowing it was a misunderstanding, and - like most in a similar situation - eager to set everyone's mind at ease - he let the folks in the house to have a conversation about it all. After a polite conversation, it ended with a request to quickly look around the house, to which he obliged as he completely forgot about the silencer. The state official noticed it, said nothing, and alerted the police as she left.

 

The only thing that saved his ass was that it took a few days for the wheels to turn and for the police to get a warrant. During that time, by shear luck, he and his wife did some spring cleaning and hauled loads of old stuff from around the house and tossed it in the city dump. The disassembled silencer made it in there.

 

There is a saying that if you tell the truth, you never have to remember anything. Same thing here. If you obey the law, you don't have to remember all your infractions.

[PostsOnPercocet 32]

I managed to get a Saiga 12 and just to be clear:

 

I live in FL now. I order to lawfully use my MD20 I have to do the conversion.

 

In 2 years I am moving back to NY (the wife demands it)...which means I can't convert it unless, maybe, I use that one special stock.

 

I can just get a telescopic stock and pin it permanently? And I can't have the MD20 in NY.

 

Stupid NY....

[bigmegina 3]

no one in nys has ever been prosacuted for having a non preban mag either.just went to a gunshow near buffalo ny.there were ak and ar and all sorts of mags for sale .most said preban on the box but they were not.all those laws are "pile on charges". if you get arrested for something they use those laws to run up the charges so you can pay more money to the corrupt system.take note not to flaunt your stuff in public.fly under the radar.if anyone really believes that if their house was searched that even if your stuff was so called legal,that they would come up with some law that you did not even know.remember their are over 25000 gun laws and you can bet you are probally breaking 1 right now.that is the way it is here in the empire.

Edited February 13, 2011 by bigmegina

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I managed to get a Saiga 12 and just to be clear:

 

I live in FL now. I order to lawfully use my MD20 I have to do the conversion.

 

In 2 years I am moving back to NY (the wife demands it)...which means I can't convert it unless, maybe, I use that one special stock.

 

I can just get a telescopic stock and pin it permanently? And I can't have the MD20 in NY.

 

Stupid NY....

 

A permanently pinned (read: in order to telescope it, you'd have to destroy it) stocks are OK in NY, although there's no "approved" methods. Just make damn sure it won't be able to move, or else it's not permanent. But anyway, how do you plan on using a pinned telescoping stock without a pistol grip? No pistol grips on S12's in NY. I'd just recommend some sort of thumbhole/skeleton stock.

 

You're right, no MD20's in NY. Any mag (for any gun) that holds more than 10 rounds needs to be pre-ban.

 

no one in nys has ever been prosacuted for having a non preban mag either.just went to a gunshow near buffalo ny.there were ak and ar and all sorts of mags for sale .most said preban on the box but they were not.all those laws are "pile on charges". if you get arrested for something they use those laws to run up the charges so you can pay more money to the corrupt system.take note not to flaunt your stuff in public.fly under the radar.if anyone really believes that if their house was searched that even if your stuff was so called legal,that they would come up with some law that you did not even know.remember their are over 25000 gun laws and you can bet you are problaay breaking 1 right now.that is the way it is here in the empire.

 

I don't know of anyone being prosecuted in NY for 10+ round post-ban mags............but it's still a felony for simple possession in NY. If 10 years of anal rape and $150K in fines is something you want to play with, be my guest.

 

Saying "Well, I bought this here mag at a gunshow in NY, so I assumed it was legal in NY" isn't going to fly in court. Play with fire you want to, but I don't suggest telling people to do the same.

[bigmegina 3]

just about everything is a felony in ny.thats why i am not there.

Edited February 13, 2011 by bigmegina

[YOT 3,743]

Just so you know..... http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/api/1.0/html/bill/S1440-2011 and http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/api/1.0/html/bill/A1479-2011 are worth a read. If these pass it won't matter what you do to an S12, it will be an AW. Scary and disheartening. Pay special attention to S 2. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 sect. D

Edited February 13, 2011 by Yeoldetool

[PostsOnPercocet 32]

Just so you know..... http://open.nysenate...bill/S1440-2011 and http://open.nysenate...bill/A1479-2011 are worth a read. If these pass it won't matter what you do to an S12, it will be an AW. Scary and disheartening. Pay special attention to S 2. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 sect. D

 

Screw it then. I was going to make it legal but forget it. I'm going to make it the way I want now. Screw them. Maybe when they turn enough of us into criminals we'll actually do something about it instead of engage in impotent bitching on the internet...

[YOT 3,743]

Just so you know..... http://open.nysenate...bill/S1440-2011 and http://open.nysenate...bill/A1479-2011 are worth a read. If these pass it won't matter what you do to an S12, it will be an AW. Scary and disheartening. Pay special attention to S 2. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 sect. D

 

Screw it then. I was going to make it legal but forget it. I'm going to make it the way I want now. Screw them. Maybe when they turn enough of us into criminals we'll actually do something about it instead of engage in impotent bitching on the internet...

Being you aren't in NY yet you can do that. NY already has stoopid restrictions, but the proposed legislation with further remove our rights.

[PostsOnPercocet 32]

Just so you know..... http://open.nysenate...bill/S1440-2011 and http://open.nysenate...bill/A1479-2011 are worth a read. If these pass it won't matter what you do to an S12, it will be an AW. Scary and disheartening. Pay special attention to S 2. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 sect. D

 

Do you know when they are going to pass this? I would say vote...but we all know that will be a joke.

[1mile50 102]

I managed to get a Saiga 12 and just to be clear:

 

I live in FL now. I order to lawfully use my MD20 I have to do the conversion.

 

In 2 years I am moving back to NY (the wife demands it)...which means I can't convert it unless, maybe, I use that one special stock.

 

I can just get a telescopic stock and pin it permanently? And I can't have the MD20 in NY.

 

Stupid NY....

 

If my wife "demanded" to move to New York, I would promptly buy her a one way ticket!

[PostsOnPercocet 32]

I managed to get a Saiga 12 and just to be clear:

 

I live in FL now. I order to lawfully use my MD20 I have to do the conversion.

 

In 2 years I am moving back to NY (the wife demands it)...which means I can't convert it unless, maybe, I use that one special stock.

 

I can just get a telescopic stock and pin it permanently? And I can't have the MD20 in NY.

 

Stupid NY....

 

If my wife "demanded" to move to New York, I would promptly buy her a one way ticket!

 

Well, both of our families are there, and it is nice in the summer (live upstate), it's just the stupid fucking laws they have there. Well, that, and the taxes. And the car inspections......ugh...dear lord....

[Dad2142Dad 6,559]

I managed to get a Saiga 12 and just to be clear:

 

I live in FL now. I order to lawfully use my MD20 I have to do the conversion.

 

In 2 years I am moving back to NY (the wife demands it)...which means I can't convert it unless, maybe, I use that one special stock.

 

I can just get a telescopic stock and pin it permanently? And I can't have the MD20 in NY.

 

Stupid NY....

 

If my wife "demanded" to move to New York, I would promptly buy her a one way ticket!

 

Well, both of our families are there, and it is nice in the summer (live upstate), it's just the stupid fucking laws they have there. Well, that, and the taxes. And the car inspections......ugh...dear lord....

 

Come down to South Carolina, the other half of New Yorkers are already here

[YOT 3,743]

Just so you know..... http://open.nysenate...bill/S1440-2011 and http://open.nysenate...bill/A1479-2011 are worth a read. If these pass it won't matter what you do to an S12, it will be an AW. Scary and disheartening. Pay special attention to S 2. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 sect. D

 

Do you know when they are going to pass this? I would say vote...but we all know that will be a joke.

No, I don't know. The bill history is as follows:

LEGISLATIVE HISTORY:

 

2010 - S.4084/A.6294 Referred to Codes

2008 - Referred to Codes

2007 - Referred to Codes

 

FISCAL IMPLICATIONS:

None to the State.

 

EFFECTIVE DATE:

Takes effect July 1, 2012.

 

Which means the bill was introduced in '07,'08,'10 and defeated those years, but has been reintroduced this year (Jan.7, 2011) immediately following the Arizona shootings that became VERY political. I believe Hillary Clinton was one of the first sponsors of this bill, but I may be wrong on that. She has certainly done a lot of lobbying pro gun control in NY.

As far as voting, this is Legislative and may be voted on (or tabled) in the Senate and Assembly and not up for public vote. We can only vote for Senators and Assembly Representatives. What they do after they're elected is beyond our control for that term. I'll stop there so this doesn't turn into a political argument.

[peterabbits 1]

maybe this is a stupid question / thought, but since i'm from CA...your laws regarding AW's look very similar to ours - and we resolved the PG issue by installing a maglock on the gun - how come no one has done this in NY?

[YOT 3,743]

maybe this is a stupid question / thought, but since i'm from CA...your laws regarding AW's look very similar to ours - and we resolved the PG issue by installing a maglock on the gun - how come no one has done this in NY?

Because the law does not require it here.

[YOT 3,743]

maybe this is a stupid question / thought, but since i'm from CA...your laws regarding AW's look very similar to ours - and we resolved the PG issue by installing a maglock on the gun - how come no one has done this in NY?

Because the law does not require it here. There is very specific wording involved, both here and where you are.

[peterabbits 1]

maybe this is a stupid question / thought, but since i'm from CA...your laws regarding AW's look very similar to ours - and we resolved the PG issue by installing a maglock on the gun - how come no one has done this in NY?

Because the law does not require it here. There is very specific wording involved, both here and where you are.

 

i'm aware that you don't need it there - but the way the law is written

The NYS penal code (it can be read here: http://wings.buffalo.../ny3%28b%29.htm) says that the following is an assault weapon, and therefore illegal:

(b.) a semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following characteristics:

(i) a folding or telescoping stock;

(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

(iii) a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds;

(iv) an ability to accept a detachable magazine;

 

indicates that by using a maglock you no longer have a detachable magazine, and therefore allows you to add a pistol grip - provided that you stick to OEM 5 rd mags that is.

 

we use the same logic in California to have AR's and regular AK's with pistol grips and flash hiders - by adding a bullet button or a maglock we no longer have a detachable magazine rifle.

Edited February 20, 2011 by peterabbits

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Mag locks/bullet buttons are legally accepted methods that Cali specifically allows, in order to bypass the "detachable mag" issue. But, New York loves to keep it's residents in grey areas, and doesn't give as specific wording. In other words, adding a mag lock/bullet button to a gun in NY doesn't mean it now has a "fixed mag", simply because NY lists no accepted methods to fix a mag.

 

As far as NY is concerned, I wouldn't consider anything less than a mag actually welded into the gun as "fixed".

Edited February 20, 2011 by -Shooter-

[peterabbits 1]

i see - and i thought CA was bad. although i do believe that it took a while for bullet buttons and magazine locks to be accepted here in CA too so maybe someday.... in any event, i'm glad that i at least don't live in NY. CA is bad enough.

[22_Shooter 1,560]

i see - and i thought CA was bad. although i do believe that it took a while for bullet buttons and magazine locks to be accepted here in CA too so maybe someday.... in any event, i'm glad that i at least don't live in NY. CA is bad enough.

 

Yeah, that's one thing I used to "envy" about Cali, when I was living in NY; at least you guys are clearly told what you can, or cannot, do.

[mikegraffam 11]

Just so you know..... http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/api/1.0/html/bill/S1440-2011 and http://open.nysenate.gov/legislation/api/1.0/html/bill/A1479-2011 are worth a read. If these pass it won't matter what you do to an S12, it will be an AW. Scary and disheartening. Pay special attention to S 2. Subdivision 22 of section 265.00 sect. D

 

Christ. What a pain in the ass.

 

I just moved out of NY, but I have family there and may have to move back at some point in life. These new laws, if they pass, will make my entire gun collection illegal, save for my Marlin .22LR. If they pass, I'll have to pack up my collection, and bring it all back to NY so that I can register them there as legally possessed prior to the cutoff date.

 

Ya know.. I generally strive to abide by the law and as a rule, I don't usually bitch about it.. but I'm getting tired of getting bent over.

 

If anyone wants to go on general strike for a few weeks, camp out in the streets of DC, maybe drink a few cold ones - let me know. If thats enough to change the regime in a country as backasswards as Egypt, it ought to work well enough here. Besides, I'm always looking for an excuse to throw back some suds and not go to work.

[Bvamp 604]

the govt employees that make all this guaranteed money should prolly go back to work and forget this bullsheet.

 

the unions were great for us back when.

 

 

the chinese have the work now.

 

traitors.

 

 

they should rot in their beds,

[22_Shooter 1,560]

More great news from the NY:

 

Nassau County just had an $80K tax-payer funded raid on a handful of gunshops in NY, and made quite a few arrests and are supposedly going through records to see past purchases made.

 

Apparently, some of the shops sold post-ban AR's with pinned telescoping stocks to undercover NYSP officers, and then proceeded to show/tell them how to remove the pin to make the stock telescope again (which would make it an illegal "assault weapon" in NY).

 

Glad I don't live there anymore. Every single one of my AR's had pinned MOE stocks on them, and I guess the average pin-job isn't sufficient for NY anymore? What a crock.

[mikegraffam 11]

More great news from the NY:

 

Nassau County just had an $80K tax-payer funded raid on a handful of gunshops in NY, and made quite a few arrests and are supposedly going through records to see past purchases made.

 

Apparently, some of the shops sold post-ban AR's with pinned telescoping stocks to undercover NYSP officers, and then proceeded to show/tell them how to remove the pin to make the stock telescope again (which would make it an illegal "assault weapon" in NY).

 

Glad I don't live there anymore. Every single one of my AR's had pinned MOE stocks on them, and I guess the average pin-job isn't sufficient for NY anymore? What a crock.

 

Well, hopefully those shops were otherwise legit. Then those cases can be argued and we can get the NY courts to finally write down what fixed vs. collapsing/folding really means. In CA, as noted elsewhere in this thread, they have more solid definitions. In reality, those shop owners could walk with a halfway decent attorney; it would not be difficult to argue that the NY law is the '94 ban verbatim, and that under the '94 ban, the US Attorney General, via the ATF, made judgement on such things as pinned stocks and that under those guidelines, the configuration is legal. The defendants were acting in good faith compliance with the law as decided under the federal enforcement of the very text that NY is using. If NY wants to enforce the same text in a different way, they are free to do so now that the ban has sunset, but it unreasonable for the State to do so in direct contradiction to the federal interpretation, without issuing some sort of guidance on the matter.

 

On the other hand, such an argument would simply serve to directly bolster the legislature's attempts at switching to a CA-style AWB model, and would probably start adopting CA positions one-after-the-other.

 

Yeah, to hell with them.. I'm glad I left. Not that FL can be my permanent home.. we're not even through winter and I don't like the heat. August has me scared. I need to figure out a way to live in Vermont.

[kevin.rose0@gmail.com 62]

More great news from the NY:

 

Nassau County just had an $80K tax-payer funded raid on a handful of gunshops in NY, and made quite a few arrests and are supposedly going through records to see past purchases made.

The guy who owned the shop had the temerity to refuse to sell a gun to a buddy of a senor cop without filling out a 4473, and filed a lawsuit over other abusive tactics that cost him a huge amount of money.

 

What Was Really Behind Nassau County's Gun Store Raids?

Edited February 22, 2011 by KevinInNM

[mikegraffam 11]

More great news from the NY:

 

Nassau County just had an $80K tax-payer funded raid on a handful of gunshops in NY, and made quite a few arrests and are supposedly going through records to see past purchases made.

The guy who owned the shop had the temerity to refuse to sell a gun to a buddy of a senor cop without filling out a 4473, and filed a lawsuit over other abusive tactics that cost him a huge amount of money.

 

What Was Really Behind Nassau County's Gun Store Raids?

 

Sickening, but it doesn't surprise me.. I've had more than my fair share of run-ins with asshole LEO's out on LI. Part of the problem, IMO, is that they make so much damn money. Now, I'm not against LEO's making a good salary - they deserve it - but LI cops, and Nassau County cops are (or, at least were) way above average.. this led to the cops really over-doing it, an "earn their pay", sortofa thing. And once they get used to bullying civvies.. well, where else is it going to go?

 

Its been a good 3 or 4 years since I read an article that turned my stomach this bad. Last time was when a female officer in Brooklyn was raped and beaten in her own home. As quoted by the NY Times: "..she was left defenceless when she left her duty arm in her locker at work." So there it is, in print - millions of people in the NY area "left defenceless" because their government makes it ridiculously difficult to own a firearm.

 

What saddens me is that, at least in NY, even firearms owners are typically anti-gun in some way or another. I've run into more than a few Fudds who are made visibly uncomfortable by my Saiga. They'll stroke an M1 Garand all day long; despite the fact that the M1 has certainly killed more people than any form of Saiga. Its all just in how the gun looks.

 

I don't get how people are so influenced by Hollywood depictions of bad guys with magical bullets that can make anything explode. It is truly bizarre how one can simply paint a gun black and instantly remove all rationality from the room. I wonder if there is a shade of mauve that makes people think clearly?

[PostsOnPercocet 32]

More great news from the NY:

 

Nassau County just had an $80K tax-payer funded raid on a handful of gunshops in NY, and made quite a few arrests and are supposedly going through records to see past purchases made.

The guy who owned the shop had the temerity to refuse to sell a gun to a buddy of a senor cop without filling out a 4473, and filed a lawsuit over other abusive tactics that cost him a huge amount of money.

 

What Was Really Behind Nassau County's Gun Store Raids?

 

Sickening, but it doesn't surprise me.. I've had more than my fair share of run-ins with asshole LEO's out on LI. Part of the problem, IMO, is that they make so much damn money. Now, I'm not against LEO's making a good salary - they deserve it - but LI cops, and Nassau County cops are (or, at least were) way above average.. this led to the cops really over-doing it, an "earn their pay", sortofa thing. And once they get used to bullying civvies.. well, where else is it going to go?

 

Its been a good 3 or 4 years since I read an article that turned my stomach this bad. Last time was when a female officer in Brooklyn was raped and beaten in her own home. As quoted by the NY Times: "..she was left defenceless when she left her duty arm in her locker at work." So there it is, in print - millions of people in the NY area "left defenceless" because their government makes it ridiculously difficult to own a firearm.

 

What saddens me is that, at least in NY, even firearms owners are typically anti-gun in some way or another. I've run into more than a few Fudds who are made visibly uncomfortable by my Saiga. They'll stroke an M1 Garand all day long; despite the fact that the M1 has certainly killed more people than any form of Saiga. Its all just in how the gun looks.

 

I don't get how people are so influenced by Hollywood depictions of bad guys with magical bullets that can make anything explode. It is truly bizarre how one can simply paint a gun black and instantly remove all rationality from the room. I wonder if there is a shade of mauve that makes people think clearly?

 

The majority of people are idiots. That's what it boils down to. Nothing can be done about it.

 

I can't wait for the day when the shit hits the fan (Katrina type incident) and all of these gun grabbing idiots cry about how those with the guns need to protect them. I know this probably won't happen, but I can wish, right? I know what my answer will be: F_ck off!