lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Hello everyone, I've been a lurker here for aprox. a month now and just picked up my first Saiga 12 this morning. My goal has been to buy and convert a Saiga 12 to use for three gun and steel matches at my local range. Obviously, the magazine fed shotgun has merit in these events due to the quick reloads possible. So I was all set to take my new shotgun to the range today during my lunch hour to run some high brass and slugs through it to see where I have improve the action. My first obstacle is the factory five round magazine does not lock into place when inserted. (I am familiar with AK style magazines as I have owned a Maadi AKM, Romanian AK-74, and done a Bulgy 74 kit build.) I have read about after market mags needing to be sanded to lock in correctly but I have not read anywhere regarding the factory mags not working. I did a search and did not find anything useful for factory mags. I would like to hear from you experts on this before I tempt to file the magazine, or mag catch lever... I have two AGP mags in route also but will not have them for a few more days. Should I try to rework the gun, mag, or send the whole thing back to the dealer? This is really annoying considering I can't shoot the gun to see what else I need to fix yet...LOL... Thanks for any help! FYI...the gun is a 19" model and has three gas ports drilled that are visible with the plug out... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 I watched these videos before I got my Saiga 12 to make sure I knew what I was doing. I hope that they help you out. Now not to insert a mag: How to insert a mag: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) Did you try locking the mag in empty? Did you try locking the mag in loaded against a closed bolt like you would your other AKs? Did you try locking the mag in loaded against a locked open bolt? The 2 differences between the S12 and regular rifle caliber AKs that makes loading the S12 difficult are the large side of the bolt, and the large diameter of the nose of the hull, as well as the shape that goes "under" the bolt. If you can lock the mag in empty, both the gun and the mag are already fitted. Edited October 21, 2010 by hobbyshooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 There have been a few come in for warranty that just would not accept a mag, factory mag or other. One even had the ejector block so far forward I had to mill the face of the block off to get enough clearance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And there's the guy to talk to right there!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If it doesn't work out for you, if you don't wanna go too in depth, he's the one you'll send it to to be fixed... Maybe he'll make sure the ports are good while he's at it too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) I watched these videos before I got my Saiga 12 to make sure I knew what I was doing. I hope that they help you out. Now not to insert a mag: How to insert a mag: Thanks for the videos! I appreciate your time getting them posted for me. I did try to "push" the mag forward while rocking it back and it did not help. After looking at the magazine for a few minutes I determined that their was excessive mold flash near the front locking lug. I few seconds with my knife trimming the mold flash off and now it rocks and locks just fine. Perhaps I have a slightly underspec magwell opening or it was the magazine mold itself but in either case, after a bit of fiddling it locks up solid now. Edited October 21, 2010 by lksyotas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Did you try locking the mag in empty? Did you try locking the mag in loaded against a closed bolt like you would your other AKs? Did you try locking the mag in loaded against a locked open bolt? The 2 differences between the S12 and regular rifle caliber AKs that makes loading the S12 difficult are the large side of the bolt, and the large diameter of the nose of the hull, as well as the shape that goes "under" the bolt. If you can lock the mag in empty, both the gun and the mag are already fitted. Thanks for your explanation on the differences of between AK rifles and the Saiga. After I modified the front of the magazine, it now locks into place with the bolt closed or held open. Even with all five rounds inserted. Thanks again! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
physicsnerd 139 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Excellent! Now you can go shoot it at lunch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 There have been a few come in for warranty that just would not accept a mag, factory mag or other. One even had the ejector block so far forward I had to mill the face of the block off to get enough clearance. Thank you for taking the time to write me also! I believe I'm on the right track now. I'm sure I'll have several more questions as I dig into the conversion... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Excellent! Now you can go shoot it at lunch. That was my plan, but I just found out I have a conference call with my companies main customer during my lunch hour... Never fails.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) hmmm...not to beat a dead horse on this topic but I just noticed that the rear locking lug on the factory magazine is cracked. I sure hope this doesn't lead to an issue in reliability - any thoughts? Edited October 21, 2010 by lksyotas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 That's a new one for me... but I think we found your original issue. There is no reason that mag won't feed, if it will lock in place. But the better question is "WTF caused that crack?", and does it indicate a larger problem with the weapon? IMHO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 That's a new one for me... but I think we found your original issue. There is no reason that mag won't feed, if it will lock in place. But the better question is "WTF caused that crack?", and does it indicate a larger problem with the weapon? IMHO Exactly my thoughts...It has not been shot yet, still factory new...I wonder what will happen after a few rounds of hard thump'n buckshot or slugs do to its lock up...I might just get in touch with the company I purchased it from and see if they will warranty the mag... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
psl sniper 963 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 (edited) That's a new one for me... but I think we found your original issue. There is no reason that mag won't feed, if it will lock in place. But the better question is "WTF caused that crack?", and does it indicate a larger problem with the weapon? IMHO Exactly my thoughts...It has not been shot yet, still factory new...I wonder what will happen after a few rounds of hard thump'n buckshot or slugs do to its lock up...I might just get in touch with the company I purchased it from and see if they will warranty the mag... if they wont exchange it, id go ahead and squirt some epoxy resin inside the crack, then sand it it back down before i used it. Edited October 21, 2010 by psl sniper 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scoutjoe 276 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 You've managed to break a factory mag.....I don't know how but I'm thinking we need to get you a medal or something 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Heath_h49008 442 Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 I could see it if it was stepped on or otherwise squeezed, deforming it out and causing his overall length issues. The weapon is probably fine. Have fun with your conversion, and don't screw with your gas system if it cycles everything but total and complete crap low brass, it's fine. Don't waste money on "break-in" with ammo. Just get some mild sanding done on the rough spots. (when you work the action you'll see them as wear points in the coating) Past that, you should have a fine gun. You already checked your ports, you know the basics. This site has everything you need, and a whole lot you probably don't. Just remember, one change at a time, test after. Welcome to the frat. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 You've managed to break a factory mag.....I don't know how but I'm thinking we need to get you a medal or something Sweet...how bout we settle for some free ammo? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 I could see it if it was stepped on or otherwise squeezed, deforming it out and causing his overall length issues. The weapon is probably fine. Have fun with your conversion, and don't screw with your gas system if it cycles everything but total and complete crap low brass, it's fine. Don't waste money on "break-in" with ammo. Just get some mild sanding done on the rough spots. (when you work the action you'll see them as wear points in the coating) Past that, you should have a fine gun. You already checked your ports, you know the basics. This site has everything you need, and a whole lot you probably don't. Just remember, one change at a time, test after. Welcome to the frat. Thanks for the info again...I decided to brave it and went out this afternoon to finally shoot it... Here is my link to the first rounds down range review... First range session Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mayor Al 41 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 I do appreciate your posting this continuing saga (and your range report). I have the same trouble with the mag acceptance... I can lock it in empty with bolt open or closed. I can lock it in loaded with bolt open, BUT I can't get the loaded mag to lock in with the bolt CLOSED. I will see if 'cleaning' off the mag latch will help, but visually the issue seems to be the ammo doesn't 'give' when it hits the bottom of the bolt as the mag is inserted. Spring stuck/stiff? Are there other things to check, before crying to Gregg at CSS???? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lksyotas 4 Posted October 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 (edited) I do appreciate your posting this continuing saga (and your range report). I have the same trouble with the mag acceptance... I can lock it in empty with bolt open or closed. I can lock it in loaded with bolt open, BUT I can't get the loaded mag to lock in with the bolt CLOSED. I will see if 'cleaning' off the mag latch will help, but visually the issue seems to be the ammo doesn't 'give' when it hits the bottom of the bolt as the mag is inserted. Spring stuck/stiff? Are there other things to check, before crying to Gregg at CSS???? I am new here also and this is my first Saiga so take what I say for what its worth,.. "With my gun" I found is with much harder to insert a fully loaded magazine (at least the factory 5 round) into the weapon with the bolt closed. You have to insert the loaded mag with a bit more force in a vertical motion to compress the top round slightly into the magazine, the front top edge of the shell will hit the bottom of the bolt head. Once you have the front locking tab inside the magwell you can push it forward to lock it in front and then rock it back until it locks the rear. It took me a few attempts to get it but after fiddling with it I can insert the loaded mag to full capacity on a closed bolt with one hand. Let me know if I'm not clear, it's difficult to put into words what I do sometimes...lol... Edited October 22, 2010 by lksyotas Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 hmmm...not to beat a dead horse on this topic but I just noticed that the rear locking lug on the factory magazine is cracked. I sure hope this doesn't lead to an issue in reliability - any thoughts? Looks like your bolt somehow was hitting the rear of the mag from the marred polymer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mayor Al 41 Posted October 22, 2010 Report Share Posted October 22, 2010 It's my first SAIGA also, and I will say there is more to learn to make it work correctly than any of my other scatterguns! I am lucky (see your range report) I live in a semi-rural area with a natural slope and rise on my property that makes it ok to shoot from my back deck 'down the hill', at least with shot-shells. I am a little hesitant to do that with slugs due to the faint possibility of a round going astray. It is some distance to any other home, but a slug could do it, so we'll wait on them. Despite the difficulty loading a mag into the gun with the bolt closed, I have fired a box of hi-brass #4 shot, and one of Federal #7 1/2 low brass shells. The low brass stove-piped a few times before I remembered to switch the gas port number, then they flipped out just fine. I will go for the multi-port plug soon! I hope to master the 'Bolt-closed' Magazine insert process shortly. So Far it is frustrating me a bit, but I will try on half-loaded mags, to see if the spring will give way a bit as the mag goes in. So far no luck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted October 23, 2010 Report Share Posted October 23, 2010 You've managed to break a factory mag.....I don't know how but I'm thinking we need to get you a medal or something Sweet...how bout we settle for some free ammo? I like this guy... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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