deputydog95 1 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 (edited) So a friend and I have been converting my 12 with parts from Greg at CSS. Not the easiest thing we've ever done, but certainly not the hardest either. Trick is to not rush it and take your time. I'm certain we could do another in probably half the time now that we're through the learning curve. Well most of the curve anyway. Per gregs instructions, we filed a groove in the bolt hold open lever arm to prevent the hold open lever spring from slipping off. Everything seemed fine, although it's a bitch to get that damn axis pin through the center of the spring without it slipping off. Anyway, that's where I left off with him. The FCG and everything else was in. All that was left to do was to put the bolt/carrier back in and put a few rounds through it. Well, he got the gun reverse field stripped with no problems. However, when he went to test the bolt hold open button, it basically went into the receiver and is now stuck in there. To add to the situation, the bolt will not go back to the rear so we can't strip it down to figure out what happened. I haven't personally seen what he did yet, but he's a pretty hand AR gunsmith and all around a braniac. He's a lot smarter than I am so I trust there wasn't an error on his part Any suggestions? We're kind of stuck at this point. I'm not sure if that spring somehow came off or what. Edited November 14, 2010 by deputydog95 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Remove dust cover and remove retainer wire/plate and remove the PIN.. Quickest option.. I think.. Al Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bridis 319 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Did you modify the BHO when you converted the S-12 or did you buy a modified BHO from CSS. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 If too much is removed from the side of the hammer axis (clearance for the BHO plate), you will have a bit of side to side slop on the hammer. That can provide enough room for the BHO plate to slip past the rail and then the button disappears inside the receiver like what you have. Once you get everything apart, check for the side to side movement on the hammer. Shim it up with thin washers if you need to and that should help prevent the problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 (edited) Remove dust cover and remove retainer wire/plate and remove the PIN.. Quickest option.. I think.. Al Do you have a pic or anything? I have no idea what the retainer wire/plate is.... Edited November 14, 2010 by deputydog95 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Did you modify the BHO when you converted the S-12 or did you buy a modified BHO from CSS. We reused the stock bho and filed a small notch in the tab where the spring sits to keep it from sliding off. How it came off I have no idea.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 If too much is removed from the side of the hammer axis (clearance for the BHO plate), you will have a bit of side to side slop on the hammer. That can provide enough room for the BHO plate to slip past the rail and then the button disappears inside the receiver like what you have. Once you get everything apart, check for the side to side movement on the hammer. Shim it up with thin washers if you need to and that should help prevent the problem. We used the tromix FCG. Which is supposedly pre modifed so we didn't dremel anything off. Is it possible that there is too much material removed by tromix? Step one. We need to figure out how to get this damn apart first Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 If all you need to do is put the spring leg back on the BHO you can do that without removing anything. You just need one of these... http://cgi.ebay.com/Dental-Probe-Pick-Mirror-Tool-Instrument-5-Piece-Set-/290495498307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 You can put a 90 degree bend in the end of the spring leg to help keep it from coming off again. Use hemostats or needle nose pliers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 14, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 If all you need to do is put the spring leg back on the BHO you can do that without removing anything. You just need one of these... http://cgi.ebay.com/Dental-Probe-Pick-Mirror-Tool-Instrument-5-Piece-Set-/290495498307?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0 You can put a 90 degree bend in the end of the spring leg to help keep it from coming off again. Use hemostats or needle nose pliers. We put a bend on the spring, as well as put a notch on the bho to keep it from sliding off. I think spartacus might be on to something with there being too much slop between the bho and axis point on the hammer. The bho moving in and then up above the rail would explain why the bho button went up into the receiver and why we now can't move the bolt back. Question is.... What do we do next? We're stuck as we can't access anything with the bolt stuck int the forward position. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Trick for holding BHO spring in place while installing pin. Run a loop of fishing line through it and out the bottom of the BHO slot, pull down and to side. If the BHO lever is stuck inside the receiver and likely along the rail, pop the dust cover off and use a tool to move it back down into place. Then you can disassemble as normal. Retainer plate or wire retainer, e.g. shepherds crook, is the retainer which holds the axis pins in place, preventing them from slipping out. It is on the left side of the receiver opposite the BHO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 I'm thinking that he can't get the cover off because the bolt is locked back. Plenty of threads on that, but I don't have any links. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 To add to the situation, the bolt will not go back to the rear so we can't strip it down to figure out what happened. I'm thinking that he can't get the cover off because the bolt is locked back. Plenty of threads on that, but I don't have any links. OP specifically states that the bolt will not go back, so he should be able to remove the cover and force the BHO back into place without completely stripping the gun.I take it the BHO rode up and next to the rail, hence blocking the bolt from coming back. Pretty easy to fix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TwentyNizzo 66 Posted November 14, 2010 Report Share Posted November 14, 2010 Am I the only one that had no problems whatsoever simply re-using the stock BHO with the conversion? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Am I the only one that had no problems whatsoever simply re-using the stock BHO with the conversion? It would seem that way Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 (edited) Trick for holding BHO spring in place while installing pin. Run a loop of fishing line through it and out the bottom of the BHO slot, pull down and to side. If the BHO lever is stuck inside the receiver and likely along the rail, pop the dust cover off and use a tool to move it back down into place. Then you can disassemble as normal. Retainer plate or wire retainer, e.g. shepherds crook, is the retainer which holds the axis pins in place, preventing them from slipping out. It is on the left side of the receiver opposite the BHO. The fishing line is genius!!! Although we found the shepherds crook was a bitch to get in there too. Any tricks for that? He got the dust cover off. Now we just need a tool that will fit in there to try and get the BHO plate down and back under the rail. Edited November 15, 2010 by deputydog95 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted November 15, 2010 Report Share Posted November 15, 2010 Trick for holding BHO spring in place while installing pin. Run a loop of fishing line through it and out the bottom of the BHO slot, pull down and to side. If the BHO lever is stuck inside the receiver and likely along the rail, pop the dust cover off and use a tool to move it back down into place. Then you can disassemble as normal. Retainer plate or wire retainer, e.g. shepherds crook, is the retainer which holds the axis pins in place, preventing them from slipping out. It is on the left side of the receiver opposite the BHO. The fishing line is genius!!! Although we found the shepherds crook was a bitch to get in there too. Any tricks for that? He got the dust cover off. Now we just need a tool that will fit in there to try and get the BHO plate down and back under the rail. Toss the shepherds crook and get a retaining plate.Take a small, sturdy standard screwdriver and notch it, place it on the BHO and give it a whack, whilst using another tool to guide the bottom back into its slot... Should pop back down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 Ok. I'm at my wits end with this thing. I was at my buddies house yesterday to look it over. I think I described that the bolt was locked forward, but its actually locked back. That stupid BHO plate has popped up and won't the action come forward. The spring has come off it and is poking through the BHO button hole. We've tried everything and can't get it to budge. This is exhausting. Suggestions? Besides throwing this thing in a dumpster You can see the marks from the screwdriver we were using with a hammer to attempt to push the plate back and down. No dice. I have the retention plate and modified BHO plate waiting to go in if I could ever get this stupid thing apart again.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 I hope the pics help. That's as good as I could make them. It tough photographic this stuff as if you use too much light it gets way too reflective. Let me know what you guys think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 Knock the cross pin out that is holding the main spring guide rod in the rear retainer. You will then be able to remove the guide rod and spring from the back of the bolt carrier. Tony Rumore Tromix Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shadoh 16 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 (edited) I used the Tromix FCG as well and it does indeed have enough removed to allow the BHO to slip past the rail. When this happened to me it not only went up into the gun but also went high enough for the bottom of the BHO to slip over the hammer/trigger spring leg. When the BHO locks the bolt back like that there is still about a half inch or so of travel that it can move rearward. This should give you enough spring play to get the cover off although it will be really HARD to do. Once you have the cover off you can can see enough of the BHO that you can push it back into the slot with a pick or small allen key or whatever. If however it has jumped the hammer spring like it did on mine you will have to raise the BHO up, get a pick and pull the hammer spring one way while pushing the bottom of the BHO over it the other way. Then you can get it back into the hole. Its pretty hard as it takes about four hands but you only have room for one in there. I dont think there is enough room to remove the trigger and hammer pins and move anything out of the way but I didnt even try that so cant say for sure. Good Luck Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention that the loop on the BHO spring will also work its way to the wrong side of the BHO and keep the BHO from going into the hole. I cant tell from your picks but it almost looks like its has. Check that hammer spring as well, its hard to see but it will totally mess with your brain if you don't notice it. Edited November 23, 2010 by Shadoh Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deaden 30 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 Am I the only one that had no problems whatsoever simply re-using the stock BHO with the conversion? Nope. I reused the factory BHO with no modifications. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
deputydog95 1 Posted November 24, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 Thanks for the replies. I got pissed off and took it to a gsmith today at lunch. It just wasn't budging and I didn't want to break anything. I'm not really that handy and I was starting to go all gorilla on it. He's familiar with the AK platform so he should have no problem fixing this. He looked at it and instantly knew what had happened. He didn't tell me how he was going to fix it, but then again if he did why would I have to pay him? Such a nuisance. Thanks again for the advice. I'll post back when its all squared away. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.