Juggernaut 11,054 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 If you are using a SGM Tactical forend on your rifle with one of the Magpul angled forgrip.. does that combo put the forgrip Too far out? I know you are supposed to run them out there a bit.. but at six three, I'm even reachin'.... or at least it feels like it... Thoughts Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 I like to keep my limbs in tight. having run a SGM tri rail on my first S-12, I wouldn't do that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
L5K 162 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 I have an AFG that I'm planning on modifying to fit nice and tight on a CAA lower foregrip. Not my picture, but it's what I'm going to do. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 you are "supposed" to do that but I find that awkward on this gun.. it felt kind of natural on an AR.. maybe it is a weight or balance issue.. but on my Saiga I like the AFG pulled in close to the gun... it is very comfortable to me.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DrThunder88 912 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 Do you guys with the AFGs close to the receiver still shoot with a "thumb break" grip on your support hand? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted November 23, 2010 Report Share Posted November 23, 2010 Do you guys with the AFGs close to the receiver still shoot with a "thumb break" grip on your support hand? I basically hold the rifle in the exact same manor as you would with no grip at all.. but use that same hold on the AFG.. the reason I like the AFG is with that type of hold it puts my thumb right on the surefire.. and the slight angle of the AFG is more natural to my hand.. like hold your support hand in front of you.. with your elbow in tight to your body.. your hand and fingers naturally point up not forward.. holding a traditional grip forces you to torque your wrist flat and while it is not a terrible feeling it is less natural than the angle the AFG provides.. the AFG removes any of that stress that a traditional hold puts.. again this "stress" is not an actual problem or issue.. I shoot rifles not equipped with AFGs all the time.. but I just find the AFG more comfortable.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I'm always a bit curious about people running the AFG in really close. The AFG is a theory based weapon and the real close positions seem to miss some of the theory. If they still like it I suppose that's fine though. I run one out on an ultimak. When I get some more time I will try one on my S12 which I have been shooting with a broken grip indexed on a stubby VFG. I don't have an SMG so I'm not sure where it goes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 when I shot an AR based rifle with the AFG out front.. I liked it.. but on the Saiga it just doesn't come together for me like that... I am NOT using it as recommended.. I guess I am more using it as an alternative to holding the magazine which I have a habit of doing on my Saiga... My Saiga will balance just forward of the magazine.. so I think that is why I might find the AFG comfortable there.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I like my grip out pretty far...........but I can't put it out as far as Costa and Haley do. Like Vlad said, it just feels awkward. I'd say just run it how you feel comfortable. Costa and Haley even make it a point to say in their instruction that what they do is not necessarily going to work for everyone. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vinnivanhood 17 Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I didnt like the AFG at first but I had trouble with VFG getting in the way of reloading. (especially with 40 rounders) I decided to wait and I find it is growing on me ie. feeling more comfortable and natural. I'm glad because I immediately liked the aesthetics of it-certainly not a priority just an added bonus. Only thing I dont like is that it takes my entire lower rail and theres nowhere for mounting a pressure switch. Overall a wonderful inovation and I'm looking forward to future models! As far as its positioning, its not like I had any choice but I dont think I would put it any further forward! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 24, 2010 Report Share Posted November 24, 2010 I'd say just run it how you feel comfortable. Costa and Haley even make it a point to say in their instruction that what they do is not necessarily going to work for everyone. No I agree but I think it would behoove people to try to understand the idea behind it all before writing it off. If you are doing everything else differently too, eg standing erect and bladed off I'm not surprised in the least that another part of it will seem odd or feel off. I fully champion the idea of doing what works for you; that said, I also champion understanding why different things are done the way they are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 (edited) I'd say just run it how you feel comfortable. Costa and Haley even make it a point to say in their instruction that what they do is not necessarily going to work for everyone. No I agree but I think it would behoove people to try to understand the idea behind it all before writing it off. If you are doing everything else differently too, eg standing erect and bladed off I'm not surprised in the least that another part of it will seem odd or feel off. I fully champion the idea of doing what works for you; that said, I also champion understanding why different things are done the way they are. Yup, I agree. I even tried Costa's stance, where he's got his body pretty much perfectly perpendicular to the target. I can't do it comfortably.....but I also haven't practiced it enough to write it off as something I can't do. I do know one thing, with his stance and shouldering technique.....pretty much anything he shoulders looks like it has zero recoil. An obvious side-effect of his stance. I lean into all of my long guns (even my .22, just from habit), but his specific stance is not something I'm used to. Edited November 25, 2010 by -Shooter- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 I find I shoot a lot more accurately with my hand farther out, like in the pic Shooter posted. I have taken to holding the rifle like that lately. Like above with the "sword analogy" but I think of it like, a table's legs are at the edges not the center, when you lift a car you want the arms as far apart as possible, etc. so the farther apart your arms, the more stable you are. But it all depends on personal preference. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 I don't watch the Magpul Videos, instruction and such, but the technique has been around for quite awhile. The AFG is kinda a gimmick. Vertical fore grips were designed to control very short barreled systems like the MP5K. They will not enhance accuracy, they actually pull your weapons system off the axis of alignment. They are for control. This is not an opinion, this is a fact. If you think it makes you better shooter, then that is all that matters, but it is not a substitute for proper technique and perfect practice. It is all about leverage. It can be uncomfortable at first but the farther you can get your hand out on the hand guard, the more control you have over the weapon system for target transitions. It is not really an accuracy thing, but again, leverage gives you more controlled, faster transitions from target to target. Square to the target give you a much wider field of view and you can transition in a 180 degree arc without repositioning your feet. I use this position when I have to have a fast wide transition from Target to Target. It is a technique. Recoil management is also a technique. DO NOT pull the weapon hard into your shoulder. The shoulder is only a reference point. Absorb the recoil in the hands/arms. Almost float the weapon system to the target and it will not bounce your upper body. This is the reason guys like myself (150lbs) can shoot a rifle or a shotgun like a machine gun and the recoil is minimal. Kay Miculek was speed shooting one of my shotguns yesterday getting ready for the Fort Benning 3-Gun Challenge. She can flat out fucking hose with it!! She knows proper technique. She actually has better technique than Jerry. That is because her smaller size dictates proper recoil management, where Jerry is bigger, has more leverage and he is one strong fella! Lots and Lots of practice. I am going to do a video of this technique this weekend. I have been promising to do it so I will do a quick and dirty one just to show the proper technique. Heading out to the range now to practice pistol. I will do a speed shooting sequence just to show the recoil management of the Saiga or any shoulder fired weapon. Free training!! Happy Thanksgiving, Jack 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Recoil management is also a technique. DO NOT pull the weapon hard into your shoulder. The shoulder is only a reference point. Absorb the recoil in the hands/arms. Almost float the weapon system to the target and it will not bounce your upper body. This is the reason guys like myself (150lbs) can shoot a rifle or a shotgun like a machine gun and the recoil is minimal. Is is one of the things demonstrated in the Art of the shotgun DVD. Square to the target give you a much wider field of view and you can transition in a 180 degree arc without repositioning your feet. I use this position when I have to have a fast wide transition from Target to Target. It is a technique. Exactly, that is one of the reasons why those who are doing "tactical" (or whatever you would like to call it) style shooting stand that way. I look forward to seeing your video. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jdtravers 637 Posted November 25, 2010 Report Share Posted November 25, 2010 Shit, rain/cold front moved in. Got a little pistol practice and had to pack up. I will link and post to my website when I get off my ass and get this done. Jack Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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