Cycling problems need help badly

[28295_1530300938 0]

Personally I have loved these forums and am a huge fan. That being said I now find myself in great need of the community think tank. I am hoping there is a simple answer to my problem but for the life of me I cant figure it out.

 

I recently converted my Saiga 12 and have found that it no longer will cycle the same ammo it did previously pre-conversion without issues. I had put about 500 rounds of federal/various birdshot though it before the conversion. (among other types as well but mostly federal wally world stuff) It cycled everything I put into it without fail, but now that I did the conversion it will no longer take the same rounds it once did before. I now get constant FTE with all the same types of rounds it once ate without problems (as in every round FTE). While I do realize that after the conversion the fire control group was moved forward, so I thought that perhaps it was the hammer not being polished down smooth after the original grinding and tinkering. But once I polished it smooth the problem still occurred. I have the version with 3 gas port holes and am wondering if perhaps after the conversion I need to get the holes widened or if I need to get another gas regulator? On a side note about the rifle when I take off the gas plug I noticed that it had a few threads in the rear of the gas port worn down (flat) from the hole being drilled to close to the barrel. In other words when they drilled my gas port frame they drilled it to far down so when my gas plug/regulator gets threaded in, it hits the barrel at the last few thread turns, thus damaging the threads. Because of this I try not to take off the gas regulator often and while I didnt think it was much of a problem originally (because it functioned fine) I also wonder if perhaps after taking it out multiple times with cleanings it has made it not as effective?

 

Any ideas will help me greatly. Thanks in advance.

[Fumes 84]

Did you put a new hand guard on it?

[28295_1530300938 0]

Yes I did but I also had it on when it functioned previously. It is a tri-rail that does not go over the top of the gas tube or dust cover. It simply sits where the original one did. It is made by DPH Arms, and was just called a tri rail system.

Did you put a new hand guard on it?

Edited November 29, 2010 by Guest

[stoplossed 2]

Remove the hanguard and fire it without a handguard.

[28295_1530300938 0]

I will remove the hand guard, but is there a reason for that to be the issue? Not saying it couldn't be the problem just surprised on why that would be the culprit of the problem with it cycling short/wrong. I tried to research the hand guard issue online/here but came up short. I will give it a try and come back and report.

[sapper1371usmc 107]

Take the gas block off, use a 3/32nds drill bit or end mill bit and enlarge the ports. Then make sure with the gas block in place that none of the ports are blocked by the gas block. You can pretty much tell with the gas block removed. You will see a black circle on the barrel from carbon and what not from previous firing that your gas ports are located in. As long as the ports are all within that circle, then your good to go. If the top two ports are being disected by the circle, then you need to open up you gas block hole a tad until they are free. Vice versa with the front hole. There are a few threads here explaining what I just mentioned.

 

But it sounds like a gas issue, hence, not enough. When you polished your hammer, did you actually remove any material from the hammer face, or did you just polish it. It you really want to reduce friction, you need to take off just enough material but not so much that the hammer cant be caught by the disconnector. Also you want to make sure that with the shaping, that the hammer hits the striker/firing pin at the right angle, pretty much parallel with the striker face, or you could possibly run into problems with your striker mushrooming.

[lksyotas 4]

Does the DPH tri rail cover the side gas hole on the gas block or does it end short of it? Reason I ask is perhaps the original plastic guard covered the hole enough to allow some back pressure to aid in the gas system providing a bit more gas to cycle your gun. If this is now fully open then it may be venting the excess gas and thus short stroking the operating system. If the rail covers the hole then I have no idea...

 

Edit: just re read your original post - I see that you fired it with the rail before the conversion. Then I would have to lean toward the new hammer not being low enough as already stated thus providing more friction for the action to cycle against.

Edited November 30, 2010 by lksyotas

[corbin 621]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

 

 

Since it worked before, I doubt it's a gas issue (assuming you didn't change out the piston, puck or plug). If you changed the bottom of the bolt or the carrier, that could be causing an issue too. I experienced that with a bolt mod, but it was easily rectified with more file work.

 

If you added a buffer, try taking it out. They often cause issues with S-12s. Use the original mags you were using too.

 

Without changing the FCG back to the pre-conversion position, try to restore one changed item at a time, then shoot it. Unless it's the hammer/carrier interaction, that should help ID the problem part.

 

 

By the way, my S-12 had the gas tube hole drilled too close to the barrel as well:

 

 

 

 

 

I just filed a flat spot on the barrel to let the plug clear it.

[Paulyski 2,227]

I'd swap back to your old hammer & see if it works for a few shots, if it does, profile the hammer.

Also make sure the hammer is unimpeded, either by it's axis width causing friction or by the front bump... but I would think the front bump is ground off if it's firing.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Paulyski

[28295_1530300938 0]

Thank you everyone, great information. I did polish the hammer but did not polish the bolt carrier and it still had the hard edges so I am thinking that it might be that. It cycles just far enough to almost eject the round but then falls short, so I am leaning more towards to much friction between the two.

 

Corbin thanks for the advice on the plug, I never considered that to be an option. Did you use a dremel to file it down, or just a round strait file?

 

I will report back after some tinkering, once again thanks to you all i knew i came to the right spot.

[corbin 621]

[scoutjoe 276]

Hammer spring legs seated correctly? Bolt Hold Open catching on the carrier? Have any dummy 12 gauge rounds to check function by hand? Crud under the extractor?

 

Just brainstorming, its much easier to look at the gun and start from there so if some of my ideas seem far fetched....you get what you pay for

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Sounds like the hammer to me.