Those who convert without moving trigger group?

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

...Is the SAW grip used for the non-converted Saiga different than a normal one? Is there a specific pistol grip that must be used with CSS's Billet Trigger Guard?

 

If so, I may have to just cut my losses and sell the pistol grip and stock on gunbroker.

 

Yes, the grip used for that specific Tapco product is different from a standard AK grip.

 

Rather than modifying it, I recommend just selling the pg/stock and buying some meant for a converted restored gun.

[davecustommade 3]

I was afraid of that. I was so excited that I actually got the trigger group in, function testing it, seeing that the hammer is hitting flush with the bolt, . . . . went to put the pistol grip on and. . . . . you know the rest of the story.

 

Well, I guess it is on to gunbroker to see if someone will buy it there.

 

I DO like the SAW grip, so may get another one that will work with this Billet Trigger Guard. What I would REALLY like to have is a piece of american made wood for the handguard [using just the lower handguard like traditional Saigas, then get a buttstock and pistol grip from Ironwoods.

 

 

Oh, and just to say it again, . . . the converted trigger is SO much better than the neutered version!!!

Edited May 8, 2011 by davecustommade

[davecustommade 3]

I ordered the proper SAW grip and a collapsing stock tonight. I know that traditionalists won't like the look, but it is more about function and cost. I would love to have nice wood, but that route was a least twice the amount and would include the screw on hand guard piece, which I didn't really care for.

 

Anyway, the next post from me [on this thread] will be a picture of the complete rifle. :-)

[22_Shooter 1,560]

Oh, and just to say it again, . . . the converted trigger is SO much better than the neutered version!!!

 

 

I hate to say it, but.............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking forward to the pics.

[davecustommade 3]

Oh, and just to say it again, . . . the converted trigger is SO much better than the neutered version!!!

 

 

I hate to say it, but.............

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Looking forward to the pics.

 

Yes. . . . . Yes you did.

 

The parts are supposed to be in today's mail. I should have taken pics of it before, . . . but there is a pic in this thread [already] that pretty much sums up what I had it like. I'll get the final [until I get a side mounted scope rail for occasional scope use] pics on here later today.

[davecustommade 3]

Okay, the process is now finished. Thanks to CSS for sending great parts for the conversion. I have added pics in the photo section.

But just for this thread, . . .

 

[unclejake 428]

Now, that wasn't so hard now, was it!!! You started out like so many of us...no confidence in yourself, and afraid to mess up your new shootin iron! LOL Now I bet that you are ready to start on the next one!!

Edited May 16, 2011 by unclejake

[davecustommade 3]

Well, . . . I think I WOULD like to do another one, but make it the more traditional AK look. . . . . . which would cost quite a bit more. This one is more utilitarian, to be used and [hopefully not] abused. But should I do another one, nice Ironwoods wood will be used.

 

The trigger is literally night and day. Where it was gritty, creepy, heavy, and cause of early shootin' finger fatigue, . . . the G2 conversion is precise, light, and I feel like I could shoot all day long. I hope to take it out soon to do a range test.

 

I am glad that I was able to keep the bolt hold open. That spring was a HUGE pain in the butt. I wonder if there is a special way to do it. But I DID have to cut it down a bit, since it was now getting in the way of the trigger [you can see the pics in the picture thread that shows how much I cut it].

 

I won't look down upon those who want to keep their rifle in its "sporter" configuration. For me, it was worth going ahead and doing it.

[Berzerker2 19]

By all means convert it and move the trigger group forward where General Kalashnikov intended it to be. I just finished my 7.62x39 and am very happy I did convert it. I lucked out by having all the original holes for the trigger and Pg nut there alreadu punched out. Before that I converted my .308 because I could not stand that trigger set up as originally configured as a "hunting" rifle. It's even easier than the 7.62 as there are no pins to drill out like the the 7362 and .223's. It's not really that hard and these guys on this forum are super helpful with tips and videos. I felt like I had two new AK's instead of "sportsmans" rifles.

 

BTW I see that my reply is about a month late..you did it and it looks great!

Edited June 21, 2011 by Berzerker2

[ryr8828 7]

Im with the OP, the full conversion is just scaaareeee.

 

My biggest concern is drilling away to install the bullet guide. Have there been any bad experiences with this?

You don't have to install the bullet guide if you don't want. I just converted my saiga and haven't done the bullet guide yet.

I had one of those pistol grip stocks on my saiga for a couple of years, it was a waste of money. I should have done the conversion immediately like nalioth suggested.

The biggest problem I had was getting the bolt hold open in.

 

Anyone who wants to make the same mistake I did can buy my pistol grip stock, it's just in my way in the parts box.

[VladTepes 160]

we should stick a thread where everyone who has ever said "I don't want to convert" only to later praise the conversion can be listed.. this way maybe people can finally understand that the converted rifle functions so much better..

[TxStrat 5]

My Saiga 7.62X39 should be here today (the FFL should have received it on Thursday of last week, but I am pretty sure that the FedEx driver is anti-gun, but that's a whole different story...) and I have been contemplating the "to convert or not to convert" question. I have been doing long range F-Class shooting for many years and I can tell you that without a doubt a rifle is only as good as it's trigger. That being said I keep asking myself, just how accurate can a firearm of this type be??? I mean I am used to shooting rifles that you measure the group at 100 yds with a set calipers. But after reading this thread, I am convinced that the goal is to make sure that the firearn is performing at it's full potential, no matter what that potential is. I am completely convinced that a full conversion with a good FCG is in order. But I do have a question, just so that I completely understand the legal issues of converting an imported rifle.... If I replace the butt stock with a made in USA stock and only use US made magazines, that would allow me to do a complete conversion including moving the FCG forward? Should the FCG be US made as well?

Edited July 11, 2011 by TxStrat

[stnls1911 55]

But I do have a question, just so that I completely understand the legal issues of converting an imported rifle.... If I replace the butt stock with a made in USA stock and only use US made magazines, that would allow me to do a complete conversion including moving the FCG forward? Should the FCG be US made as well?

A U.S. stock and pistol grip are 2 parts, and the FCG is 3. 15 - 5 = 10 foreign parts if you are using foreign high normal capacity mags.

[Teqnikal 1]

I plan on using the RAA dragunov/skelton stock for my conversion. That way I wont need to move the TCG forward. That being said will the G2 TCG still work? Or, do I have to move the TCG forward for it to work? Also, what other parts would I need? I'm very new to this, but am sure I can do the work. So far all I have is a bullet guide, and the RAA stock. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

 

[vulcan16 971]

I plan on using the RAA dragunov/skelton stock for my conversion. That way I wont need to move the TCG forward. That being said will the G2 TCG still work? Or, do I have to move the TCG forward for it to work? Also, what other parts would I need? I'm very new to this, but am sure I can do the work. So far all I have is a bullet guide, and the RAA stock. Thanks in advance for the help.

 

 

 

You will have to move the TG forward to use the Tapco FCG.

I converted restored four 5.45's for friends recently, and all were amazed at the improvement that the Tapco fcg had over the original.

[Teqnikal 1]

You will have to move the TG forward to use the Tapco FCG.

I converted restored four 5.45's for friends recently, and all were amazed at the improvement that the Tapco fcg had over the original.

 

 

Darn, I already purchased the stock, I suppose I could send it back. Are there any TG/FCG out there that I wouldn't need to move forward?

[davecustommade 3]

My Saiga 7.62X39 should be here today (the FFL should have received it on Thursday of last week, but I am pretty sure that the FedEx driver is anti-gun, but that's a whole different story...) and I have been contemplating the "to convert or not to convert" question. I have been doing long range F-Class shooting for many years and I can tell you that without a doubt a rifle is only as good as it's trigger. That being said I keep asking myself, just how accurate can a firearm of this type be??? I mean I am used to shooting rifles that you measure the group at 100 yds with a set calipers. But after reading this thread, I am convinced that the goal is to make sure that the firearn is performing at it's full potential, no matter what that potential is. I am completely convinced that a full conversion with a good FCG is in order. But I do have a question, just so that I completely understand the legal issues of converting an imported rifle.... If I replace the butt stock with a made in USA stock and only use US made magazines, that would allow me to do a complete conversion including moving the FCG forward? Should the FCG be US made as well?

 

Where I am not sure of the accuracy of the Saiga system, I was doing a great job of drilling the [near] same spot at the 100 yard burm at my range. I have a side scope rail for it, so maybe I will scope it just to see what it would do at 100 yards, then report back.

 

Regardless, where it may be true that the trigger group, originally sent, would be servicable, after putting the Tapco on, there is no comparison in the quality of the feel. And if you're a person who requires a good trigger for ample performance, you will probably NOT like the unconventional trigger.

[VladTepes 160]

I plan on using the RAA dragunov/skelton stock for my conversion. That way I wont need to move the TCG F(ire) C(ontrol) G(roup) forward.

 

 

Then it is not a conversion you are simply adding on parts to a factory Saiga..

 

if you insist on trying to improve the FCG without moving it (which IMO makes no sense) Dinzag does sell a G2 for an unmodified Saiga.. but not sure how good it would be given the mechanics behind the factory trigger..

 

http://www.dinzagarms.com/misc_parts/fcg.html

[Teqnikal 1]

I plan on using the RAA dragunov/skelton stock for my conversion. That way I wont need to move the TCG F(ire) C(ontrol) G(roup) forward.

 

 

Then it is not a conversion you are simply adding on parts to a factory Saiga..

 

if you insist on trying to improve the FCG without moving it (which IMO makes no sense) Dinzag does sell a G2 for an unmodified Saiga.. but not sure how good it would be given the mechanics behind the factory trigger..

 

http://www.dinzagarm..._parts/fcg.html

 

So they do make the parts, but it's not worth it. That what I was looking for. So, I need to send back the stock I have, buy a new one, move everything forward and be tip top happy with a smile in my heart. Thanks everyone for the help. After I get everything done I'll post some picks. It's going to take a little while, I can only buy a few parts at a time.

[VladTepes 160]

So they do make the parts, but it's not worth it. That what I was looking for. So, I need to send back the stock I have, buy a new one, move everything forward and be tip top happy with a smile in my heart. Thanks everyone for the help. After I get everything done I'll post some picks. It's going to take a little while, I can only buy a few parts at a time.

 

 

The situation is pretty simple.. there are two types of gun guys (although some are a mixture of the two types..)

 

type 1) modifies the gun primarily to achieve a certain look.. function is not the most critical factor.... rails.. gadgets.. components on top of components.. etc.. while leaving CRITICAL components stock (think of a really done up car, with a stock 4 cylinder under the hood.)

 

type 2) modifies the gun to achieve function... doesn't matter what is happening.. if the gun WORKS better.. that is key..

 

what happens with Saigas is simple.. people get them.. and instantly want them to look cool.. so they order this that and the other part.. bolt it all on.. hang lasers.. flashlights.. bipods.. etc.. off of the gun.. while maintaining the guns original fire control group, and other critical parts.. they normally do this with poor quality inexpensive parts.. the goal? immediate gratification.. instead of investing the time and effort in simply making a gun that works well.. they want the gun to look as "bad ass" as possible.. normally falling short and ending up with a big poorly functioning mess.. with a bunch of eBay air soft accessories screwed onto it.. instead.. save the cash.. get the most critical components first and build out and restore the gun to its original configuration.. after that whatever you do is gravy.. because at least the gun will run right..

 

I have converted many Saigas.. and own/have owned quite a few... and I don't care what anyone tells you on the matter.. the factory fire control group is complete and total trash.. THE ONLY FAVOR they are doing by putting it into the gun, is allowing you to pick up 3 US parts by replacing it..

 

just helped a financially struggling friend convert.. he was pretty tight on cash.. so he only did the back half.. G2, stock, pistol grip.. and while his gun may not have a ton of fancy rails and shit.. his gun works.. and it works well.. think it cost him sub $150 in parts..

 

if you change the configuration and replace the FCG.. you will not be disappointed.. I have yet to hear a story of a single Saiga owner who regrets restoring the gun..

[TxStrat 5]

Definitely change the FCG and add the JTE Main Spring while you are at it. I makes an incredible difference.

[saiganov_raz 11]

I actually welded a home-made bullet guide onto my x39. My 308 of course doesn't need a bullet guide.

But moral of the story is the x39 I have vs. my buddies (tapco stock & drilled bullet guide). Mines more balanced, quicker to shoulder, quicker target acquisition, more accurate (due probably to the new trigger group), and his screw on bullet guide has the tiniest little gap but has caught a bullet coming out of the magazine before. Not a big issue. Just racked it again and finished out the magazine. But mine has had not one problem. Granted he spent a little less than me (under $100 less because my bullet guide was home made and I did my own conversion and purchased parts separately but still cheaper)

At the end of the day I could sell my gun today for over $1000 and it would sell quick. He could if he's lucky get around $800-$900 with his remaining magazines and ammo maybe. And all our other furnature and modifications are identical. All the way to the muzzle brake.

 

I will say the tapco will let you swap back to hunting configuration quicker and for a bit less money. And if I'm being honest it does help the balance of the rifle a little bit compared to the hunting/sporter stock. But I didn't know anything about the internals of an AK pattern rifle when I decided to convert my saiga. Now I know it backwards and forwards blindfolded. It gives you an opportunity to learn your gun better and be proud of your self and your gun. That's worth $50-$100 price difference in my eyes. And the tapcos slight balance improvement next to the balance of a normal native AK configuration you might as well hang a sack of potatoes off the nose of your gun. It's night and day.

 

It's a good idea to convert it fully. You will not believe how much more you like shooting the gun. And how much more easy and quick it is to shoulder and control. Takes a pound or so off of felt weight off with the balance issue being fixed. It's just all around better. Take it from a guy that shoots these guns in both set-ups twice a month for the last 3.5 years. Convert and never look back.

[saiganov_raz 11]

I also agree with what vladtepes said. Get the tapco g2 (at least) move the trigger guard and fcg up and install a bullet guide. Then pepper to taste (with gadgets etc). I didn't even bother doing the gas tube or lower retainer as there are plenty of good looking and functional forends/handguards made specific to the saiga mounting system. Fcg, good pistol grip and bullet guide. That'll improve the gun to where whatever else you do to it doesn't matter as you have a good running reliable well balanced gun underneath.

[richUK 90]

I also agree with what vladtepes said. Get the tapco g2 (at least) move the trigger guard and fcg up and install a bullet guide. Then pepper to taste (with gadgets etc). I didn't even bother doing the gas tube or lower retainer as there are plenty of good looking and functional forends/handguards made specific to the saiga mounting system. Fcg, good pistol grip and bullet guide. That'll improve the gun to where whatever else you do to it doesn't matter as you have a good running reliable well balanced gun underneath.

 

Don't know if you noticed but this thread is over 2 years old now

[psl sniper 963]

woah. necro thread.

[Road Warrior 8]

I believe the stock Saiga, from whatever importer, is a mighty fine rifle. And like you, I too changed stocks, and considered leaving the gun as is....which in fact, is what I did. But buying a second Saiga 7.62, I decided to give the conversion a shot. Now don't misunderstand, I have a pretty fully equipped shop, lots of shop skills, and 45 years of experience to back it all up.

 

And yes, I could have done the conversion in a couple of hours with very little more than a dremel tool, a file or two, and some needlenose pliars....instead opting to do the conversion in a couple of hours with a shop full of tools.

 

The result is in my mind, pretty simple. Unconverted, the Saiga is a mighty fine rifle. The converted Saiga is a mighty fine BETTER rifle. Either way you, you'll end up with a good gun.

 

Now, what about a Saiga .308 though? I find that in my gun dreams, I'm thinking that if a Saiga 7.62 (or AK47) makes a good battle rifle, why wouldn't a Saiga .308 make an ever finer battle rifle? In fact, I'd enjoy hearing from owners of .308 's for just that reason (I have a bolt action .308, but am thinking a SA might be a 'good thing').

I own both rifles and love them both, I just ordered everything necessary to convert my .308, I ordered a new FCG from Dinzag Arms, a Hogue pistol grip, AR style buffer tube adapter, and a Magpul CTR buttstock from CSS (carolinashooterssupply.com) totaling around $300. From what I understand the Dinzag Arms has a drop-in trigger that makes the process easier. Dinzag also has a PDF file you can download with step by step instructions to go along with CSS youtube videos. This will be my first conversion, I have watched the videos and studied the process and I'm confident I'll be able to get this done no problem.