Problem: Bolt carrier pushes safety down

[ranger22 1]

New stock S12. With the intention of using as a home defense gun but will be using it for steel matches and such.

 

Background:

Serial #H09.......

This particular safety is "looser" -disengages a little easier and slides easier then on other S12's and Saiga 762x39

 

Problem:

When the safety is engaged, if I pull the bolt carrier/support back, it forces the safety down.

I looked at another NIB S12 and it didn't have this problem. It locks up - the bolt carrier coming back can't push the safety down.

 

So I was thinking about it and in order for the safety to "unintentionally" be released the following would need to take place.

 

1. I would have to pull the bolt carrier all the way back to the safety and beyond (I've done a little training and I don't think that is going to happen, by getting caught on a piece of clothing or gear)

2. The safety would have to be pushed down the rest of the way to be disengaged from the trigger (which could happen by brushing into something or getting caught)

3. I would have to pull the trigger

 

These pics are to illustrate the point, but were taken on another rifle.

The idea is the same.

 

This is a pic of the safety on, bolt closed

 

This is what happens when I pull the bolt carrier back, safety on. It starts to push the safety down

 

Bolt carrier back further

 

And this is the position the safety is in when the bolt closes again

 

I would rather have that then a safety that is too difficult to engage. During stress fine motor skills go out the window and with gloves, I don't want to be fiddling with a stubborn safety that won't budge. I started to think it may be best to leave it the way it is. I would leave as such because I believe "if something isn't broke, don't fix it" - I know some of you are going to argue, "It's broke, fix it!" But I am trying to make as few modifications as possible. Reliability is key and I think even little adjustments affect things.

 

My questions are as follow:

 

Has anyone had this problem? If so, did you tighten it? Why? Did you leave it? Why?

 

What are some things I may not be thinking of?

Thanks in advance!

Edited June 28, 2011 by ranger22

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

....

Edited June 28, 2011 by evlblkwpnz

[ranger22 1]

x

Edited June 28, 2011 by ranger22

[CPF 80]

Don't be discouraged, some people here are just too unintelligent to read the bold and underlined text.

 

Now, on topic, how loose is your safety? Does it click into position with force, or is it a simple easy slide up and down? TBH, I haven't seen this before.

 

EDIT: I would definitely suggest tightening it. A safety is supposed to be just that, a safety. That can't be done if the bolt moves it.

Edited June 28, 2011 by CPF

[ranger22 1]

Don't be discouraged, some people here are just too unintelligent to read the bold and underlined text.

 

Now, on topic, how loose is your safety? Does it click into position with force, or is it a simple easy slide up and down? TBH, I haven't seen this before.

 

EDIT: I would definitely suggest tightening it. A safety is supposed to be just that, a safety. That can't be done if the bolt moves it.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind.

It clicks into place. When I say it slides more easily then other Saigas, I mean just by a little. It still needs force to move it.

you're right about a safety and I imagine it is intended to keep the bolt carrier forward, and not do what it is doing.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Remove cover, remove carrier, rotate safety upward, bend it inward a little, test, repeat if until it is to your liking.

 

Sorry, we get some really stupid shit here from time to time and it is usually from the same trolls. Welcome aboard.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

It can be tightened easily by putting a slightly more inward angle on the selector. In other words you can bend it ever so slightly toward the middle (barrel axis). Don't mind evl, he doesn't bite....

 

Edit >> Ah I see we were typing at the same time...lol.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Don't be discouraged, some people here are just too unintelligent to read the bold and underlined text.

 

Now, on topic, how loose is your safety? Does it click into position with force, or is it a simple easy slide up and down? TBH, I haven't seen this before.

 

EDIT: I would definitely suggest tightening it. A safety is supposed to be just that, a safety. That can't be done if the bolt moves it.

 

Read the OP and post #3 again....

 

"This post has been edited by ranger22: Today, 09:56 PM"

Edited June 28, 2011 by evlblkwpnz

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

It can be tightened easily by putting a slightly more inward angle on the selector. In other words you can bend it ever so slightly toward the middle (barrel axis). Don't mind evl, he doesn't bite....

 

Edit >> Ah I see we were typing at the same time...lol.

 

[ranger22 1]

Remove cover, remove carrier, rotate safety upward, bend it inward a little, test, repeat if until it is to your liking.

 

Sorry, we get some really stupid shit here from time to time and it is usually from the same trolls. Welcome aboard.

Thanks bro, I understand

So "fix it" seems to be the consensus so far

Edited June 28, 2011 by ranger22

[CPF 80]

Remove cover, remove carrier, rotate safety upward, bend it inward a little, test, repeat if until it is to your liking.

 

Sorry, we get some really stupid shit here from time to time and it is usually from the same trolls. Welcome aboard.

Thanks bro, I understand

So "fix it" seems to be the consensus so far

 

Yep. Most people here will encourage you to make your gun as perfect as it gets. Which means after this issue is fixed, we will encourage you to convert it

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Remove cover, remove carrier, rotate safety upward, bend it inward a little, test, repeat if until it is to your liking.

 

Sorry, we get some really stupid shit here from time to time and it is usually from the same trolls. Welcome aboard.

Thanks bro, I understand

So "fix it" seems to be the consensus so far

 

I would, think about it like this, in a defense situation your adrenaline is going to be pumping like crazy, your perception of time will slow down and your strength will be multiplied. In this situation, unless you are really drunk, it wouldn't matter if the safety took 150 lbs of force to move it, you'd damn near rip the thing off...

[ranger22 1]

 

I would, think about it like this, in a defense situation your adrenaline is going to be pumping like crazy, your perception of time will slow down and your strength will be multiplied. In this situation, unless you are really drunk, it wouldn't matter if the safety took 150 lbs of force to move it, you'd damn near rip the thing off...

You're right. I haven't worked the S12 under stress (competition) or with gloves yet, and thinking about it, it probably wouldn't be that bad, but I just think of "gloves, shaking hand, thumb slipping off of small lip, panic!!!"

Guess that is why they say "Practice, practice, practice".

Thanks

[L5K 162]

I modify my safeties to have this shelf so I can use my index finger. Also the shelf is much larger. This makes it much easier to manipulate for me.

[ranger22 1]

I modify my safeties to have this shelf so I can use my index finger. Also the shelf is much larger. This makes it much easier to manipulate for me.

 

You operate the safety up and down with just your index finger with that?

Where did you purchase it? or did you make it?

Thanks

Edited June 28, 2011 by ranger22

[yooper14.5 84]

Krebs custom sells a safety extremely similar to the one above. Has the shelf for the index finger and the notch to hold the bolt open.

[MT Predator 2,294]

Krebs custom sells a safety extremely similar to the one above. Has the shelf for the index finger and the notch to hold the bolt open.

Same with the Blackjack Buffers safety I have on my S12.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I modify my safeties to have this shelf so I can use my index finger. Also the shelf is much larger. This makes it much easier to manipulate for me.

I may try this. Looks like it might yield a better purchase on the safety.

[glennhmd 23]

what i understand from the initial post, is that the thread starter is trying to hold the bolt back using the safety.

 

if this is so, its really not possible unless one replaces the stock safety with the one from Keb's (the one that is notched as in the picture above), or notch the stock safety so the bolt is held in place by this notch.

[fauxknight 30]

what i understand from the initial post, is that the thread starter is trying to hold the bolt back using the safety.

 

I took it as he has a gun that where the safety malfunctions and when he pulls the charging handle the safety is pushed down out of the way rather than stopping the charging handle. This safety is a very simple design, so its hard to imagine one being shaped improperly to cause this, but we still haven't seen any pictures of the actual offender.

[csspecs 1,987]

Its just loose from the factory. My brothers S-20 was like that when we went to pick it up.. The dealer did not want to let the gun leave until we ordered a new safety to fix it. I asked to see the gun, and bent the safety inward to fix the 'problem'..

 

His exact words "Oh, well I guess that works too".

 

 

I adjust my safety levers by bending them, I want them firm but still loose enough to turn off with just my thumb.

[ranger22 1]

what i understand from the initial post, is that the thread starter is trying to hold the bolt back using the safety.

 

I took it as he has a gun that where the safety malfunctions and when he pulls the charging handle the safety is pushed down out of the way rather than stopping the charging handle. This safety is a very simple design, so its hard to imagine one being shaped improperly to cause this, but we still haven't seen any pictures of the actual offender.

Yes Sir, you are right. I took y'all advice and bent it. It is a little too tight for my liking right now, so I'm going to go back to it. Don't want to get tunnel vision and screw it up. I know it's commie steel and I won't:)

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Careful if you try and bend it back outward. You don't want to bend it in the middle or it will start scraping the finish off your receiver in the middle of the selector arm's path. The only part that you want touching the receiver is the very end where the little tit is on the backside of the dimple, and around the pivot point.

[ranger22 1]

Here are the pics!

You can see wear on the edge of the bolt carrier behind the handle, only 100 rds have gone thru it - if that.

 

I compared the safety with another one and the other one seems to be more pointy at the far right edge of it. I'm not explaining that well. Where the bolt handle hits the safety.

I also noticed that the edge of the bolt carrier, right behind the handle, protrudes out more on the S12 than on the Saiga 762x39. It is that part that is first hitting the safety, pushing it out a bit, and then down. But no longer since I bent it in.

 

On the bottom of the receiver where the safety lands, you can see scuff marks - from the safety. Do you guys have that on yours?

Edited June 28, 2011 by ranger22

[ranger22 1]

Careful if you try and bend it back outward. You don't want to bend it in the middle or it will start scraping the finish off your receiver in the middle of the selector arm's path. The only part that you want touching the receiver is the very end where the little tit is on the backside of the dimple, and around the pivot point.

Good call.

That is what is starting to happen! Damn.

Ok fixed it. But when it is in the fire position, when the tit is below the receiver, the area above the tit is resting on the reciever. Is that ok? it seems like it has too rest there. And it has scuffed the paint there.

Edited June 28, 2011 by ranger22

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Careful if you try and bend it back outward. You don't want to bend it in the middle or it will start scraping the finish off your receiver in the middle of the selector arm's path. The only part that you want touching the receiver is the very end where the little tit is on the backside of the dimple, and around the pivot point.

You said "touching" and "little tit"

 

I love this place

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Here are the pics!

You can see wear on the edge of the bolt carrier behind the handle, only 100 rds have gone thru it - if that.

 

I compared the safety with another one and the other one seems to be more pointy at the far right edge of it. I'm not explaining that well. Where the bolt handle hits the safety.

I also noticed that the edge of the bolt carrier, right behind the handle, protrudes out more on the S12 than on the Saiga 762x39. It is that part that is first hitting the safety, pushing it out a bit, and then down. But no longer since I bent it in.

 

On the bottom of the receiver where the safety lands, you can see scuff marks - from the safety. Do you guys have that on yours?

Now THAT.... is a Saiga 12

 

My shit looks beat. I run them hard and I'm pretty sure they both have that same wear mark at the bottom of the receiver. It means you do more than talk about it, take pics of it, and stare at it. Looks great to me

[ranger22 1]

Careful if you try and bend it back outward. You don't want to bend it in the middle or it will start scraping the finish off your receiver in the middle of the selector arm's path. The only part that you want touching the receiver is the very end where the little tit is on the backside of the dimple, and around the pivot point.

You said "touching" and "little tit"

 

I love this place

[fauxknight 30]

But when it is in the fire position,

 

It should go down and firmly rest against your safety stop.