AegisDei 2 Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 Did anyone catch the Myth-Busters episode where they tested to see if diving under water, as seen so often in Hollywood, could protect someone from taking fire? From what I heard, the results were amazing! Unfortunately I missed it, and am impatiently awaiting a re-run, but I was told about it and figured I'd see if y'all had any input. The Myth-Busters fired about everything from a musket to a BMG, and the results I still don't believe. They put a target at a 3' depth, and only a solid lead ball from a flintlock punctured the target. Even the BMG failed to puncture the target. Apparently on impact with the water, every round fragmented with enough energy-dissipation that there was no damage to the target (except the super-slow lead ball from the flintlock). Did anyone see the show or have any info on this? Can I really dive to 3' and be safe from a 50cal? Or would the fragmenting bullets shred me like some good parmesan cheese? Are there rounds that can withstand the impact? I'm most curious... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
McUZI 1 Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I wonder if Jamie or Adam would be willing to lay back-down in the shallow end of a swimming pool while I stood over them with a .50 BMG and fired into their chest area. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 I SAW that episode... you want to hear the details, email me, I will send you my phone number, you can call me, I can relay the whole episode to you... Understand one thing... The projectiles that fragmented upon entering the water DID INDEED ONLY penetrate appx 3 - 4 feet of water before being totally disintegrated... WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?!!??! That means that *ALL* of that particular bullets energy was transferred to the water in a VERY SHORT TIME... How close would you want to be under water when that SHOCK WAVE ripped past you??? Are you familiar with the term HYDROSTATIC SHOCK? Imagine the .50 BMG with almost 13000 Foot pounds of energy transferring that energy to the water, and you are a MERE 3 feet away... Yeah... you wont get HIT with a BULLET... but I would guess that most of your organs would probably rupture... And if they didnt... you will probably WISH you were dead instead of the alternative of survival... Just my thoughts on that.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 2, 2005 Report Share Posted August 2, 2005 A .50 BMG would make a shockwave that would shatter your ear drums. At the very least. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Good point, transferring all that energy so quickly would be like a bomb going off underwater. I never cared for that French looking guy anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PM2790 0 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 All of the energy will not be directed in one direction. It will be dissipated in almost all directions and acting on the mass of the water volume as a whole. Also bear in mind that rifle/pistol bullets do not explode as do depth charges. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 All of the energy will not be directed in one direction. It will be dissipated in almost all directions and acting on the mass of the water volume as a whole. Also bear in mind that rifle/pistol bullets do not explode as do depth charges. That is true, indeed so.... Although I will tend to disagree slightly with the water volume as a whole... to me that makes me think that a boat wouldnt leave a WAKE... cause it acts upon the water as a whole... not just the portion that it is in contact with... maybe I am WAY off base with my thinking... The bullet while entering the water will dissipate its force in a hemispherical pattern...Out and down... regardless of whether it effects the whole deal... I *STILL WOULD NOT WANT TO BE WITHIN 3-4 FEET* of that blast!!!! Thats why when you shoot high powered rifles into the water, even when the fish are 5 or 6 feet below the surface, they STILL FLOAT TO THE TOP DEAD.... YES.... this HAS been tried and tested many times over many years long past... My buddies 8MM mauser was affectionately nicknamed "Fishmusket"!!! LOL I am SURE would it have been with a .50 BMG, the force would be even more effective to a greater depth... whether the bullet penetrates or not... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jon elia 0 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 ::personal knowledge of sound and fluids here:: the bullet would hit the water and it would be sort of like a(best comparison) a subwoofer...the wave would not really be directional but it would start off with more or less directional force...like a wave of a boat also... so at 3-4 feet it would be like this )))))) but gradually getting bigger so therfore would have directional force. and like indy said it would hAVE SUCH PRESSURE IT WOULD RUPTURE THE INSIDES...sorry for caps... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Manasgoodolsteerosciencemandangolimpacttransmitsmegasoundwavethrudatwaterandhit datmuthaden BOOM man yaknowwhutImean! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jon elia 0 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 hell yeah, i know whatcha mean....you might not get hit by the bullet but its not a good place to hide is the final ruling Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted August 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Ok, that makes more sense. Something that can go thru a diesel block engine I would think could still kill at 3' of water. I was forgetting the rediculous amounts of pressure that would be instantly generated. So what about the smaller stuff? I use solid steel core 62gr .223 rounds in my AR. Would that only hurt the ear-drums of someone 3' deep? Or would it do some pressure damage? Or my .45 with 230gr lead bullets? Same issues? I know the .50cal is extreme, but I've not seen in the movies anyone dive underwater to avoid that. Usually it's Uzi's and maybe ARs at the worst. Thanks for enlightening me, this has been a fun/informative post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Well.... when you get to the pistol Calibers THAT CHANGES the whole thing.... On that Mythbusters show, they STARTED with a square clear plexiglass tank that made a water column 10 feet high, one foot by one foot, I believe the side by side dims were... regardless... it was a good size construction... with a cube of ballistics gelatin that they could move up and down in that water column. The one guy got on top of a scaffold and fired a 9mm pistol into the water column at a perfect straight up and down angle to the water... The bullet PENETRATED THE BALLISTICS GEL at a depth of 6 feet to create a fatal or near fatal wound!!! ( like 5-6 " of ballistics gel) at 8 feet... it barely penetrated the gel, translating to bouncing off skin at that depth... so the SLOWER bullets ****WILL PENETRATE**** a LOT of water!!!! The next thing they tried was a 12 gauge shotgun with a slug... NEEDLESS to say... the first shot BLEW OUT THE SIDE of the tank, and they had to scramble to get the electrical components unplugged, etc... LOL it was TRUE mythbusters hysteria/comedy....with hundreds of gallons of water pouring out all over the shop.... Thats when they went to the swimming pool to conduct the rest of the testing.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
k_dawg 0 Posted August 3, 2005 Report Share Posted August 3, 2005 Why do you think Navy SEALS like to carry the HK Mk23s? 230gr .45acp going at ~850fps is one of the more effective in-water firearms. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
danny boy 0 Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 There's a stream with a hole about 2' deep on my property where we shoot. We like to toss plastic bottles in and shoot under the bottle with my Mauser and when the bottle shoots about 20' in the air, blast it again with a shotgun. Now if a 7.92mm projectile will transfer enough energy to throw a plastic 20 oz bottle that high, I would think that Indy's theory would hold true. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 As one who has been depth charged, I can tell you --- shockwaves do WIERD SHIT in water. Energy is not transmitted like it would be through air. The same blast can be rather mild at a short range (200yds.) and a real tooth loosener at 2000 yds. . There are divergences and convergences. Shallow water reacts different than deep water. A difference in temperatue or salinity cause severe refraction. We sub sailors LOVE temperature and salinity layers. Especially inversions. Drives sonar crazy. Still-I do NOT want to be in the water with some asshole shooting at me! G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jofus 0 Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 I think one of the most important lessons here is this: If a badguy jumps in a creek to get away from you, don't shoot at him. Hop in and beat the dogpiss out of him with your rifle! Hehe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jon elia 0 Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 hmm the shooting water thing..did they test some of the wolf bi metal 7.62x39 i wonder what it'll do...since it wotn mushroom with nothing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
okie shooter 0 Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 Not remembering my fluid mechanics enough, my guess would be in a small confined space the shock waves are really strong, but in a larger unconfined water tank the shock waves would disipate much more rapidly. I am sure if any one wants to model this, its just a fluids problem with a different density fluid acting on the projectile, air vs water. The bigger unkown is the degradation of the projectile when it hits the much denser water vs air(mushrooming, breaking apart. tumbleing etc.). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TWGLADF 0 Posted August 4, 2005 Report Share Posted August 4, 2005 i too shoot at bottles on the water i they go alot higher than 20 feet! i've seen em land in the tops of 40+foot tall pine trees. to me that shows alot of energy is dumped on the surface of the water. now, if anyone has a deep pool or lake/stream maybe you can put some oil and water in a bag or container. get it to suspend at a certain depth. shoot next to it and if they mix, then you know the shock affected it. maybe oil/water would not be the best thing to use but something along those lines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 I was playin with ideas and thought about putting a couple of eggs under water and shooting near them. Maybe one broken open in a container but being careful not to break the yoke. I'm pretty sure the yoke would explode at least in the opened egg. The pond is callin but I'm scared to get egg on my face LOL. Maybe pond scum and eggs are the ultimate lube for the AK action! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted August 5, 2005 Report Share Posted August 5, 2005 Sounds like the Cobra version of mythbusters is a callin ya!!! I think a RANGE REPORT is pending Cobra's testing... LOL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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