evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I competed in my first 3 Gun match today. When registering, I was asked what kind of shotgun I was using. I replied that it was a Saiga 12 and one of the guys laughed and said, "If you can make it run.". I later found out that one of the guys bet the other guy lunch that my Saiga 12 would choke.... and lost. FLAWLESS PERFORMANCE, BITCHES!!!! My "evl-blk-box-o-parts" Saiga 12 is most definitely the wrong Saiga 12 to be betting against. He didn't know that though. Apparently, they had been to a shoot in SE GA where some guys had Saiga 12s that were choking and they assumed that most were the same. I did OK for my first time out and my crude little Russian shotgun really made a statement about the potential reliability of the Saiga 12 platform. I think I will try one of my Poly Chokes on it next time out as I was having problems with the plates dropping so slow that I was wondering if I hit them for a second. The 18 1/16" barrel probably doesn't help either. +1 for the Saiga 12!!!! .... and damn, that was fun! 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 That is a great story, sounds like you had a good day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIMTIMTIM 57 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 He should have bought you lunch for his blasphomous remark! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BigBear72 2 Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 I have heard similar remarks at the range about the Saiga 12 and its lack of perfomance and reliability. They do not have much to say after they see me shoot it though Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) That is a great story, sounds like you had a good day. I did great with my wife's 10.5" SBR.... with an Aimpoint T1 that wasn't even sighted in for it , not so great with my G19 (never shoot it), and decent with the Saiga 12. Overall, it was really fun and a lot better than shooting at a static range. The Texas Star gave me a fit though. I wasted a bunch of rounds and time on it. I like it and want to do it again. It was an 'Outlaw' match and I was allowed to run a MD-20. I only brought one MD-20 and a few 5 round mags though and the last stage had 36 targets on it. Two were Texas Stars. the most hits on that stage was 24 and I only hit 18. I learned a lot though. The M.A.G.12 S12 is probably going to end up as a dedicated 3 Gun rig now Thank you, TAC47! Perfect timing! Edited December 4, 2011 by evlblkwpnz 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 In any competition, you will always encounter a few douche bag assholes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 In any competition, you will always encounter a few douche bag assholes. He was actually pretty nice after we chatted for a minute about the weapon. He was running a Mossberg 500 and doing pretty good with it, but the loading looked like labor and really ate the clock up. One thing that is puzzling me is that I have a higher hit-to-miss ratio while shooting clays and not looking at the sights than I did today with steel and not looking at the sights. The steel plates are huge compared to clays. I may start looking at the sights. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Awesome job!! I had a guy call mine a boat anchor, then he shut up when I won one of the shotgun stages bye almost 8 seconds and finished 2nd in the other shotgun stage. I use number 6 shot and a skeet choke in my 19" and never have a problem with the steel falling quickly . My barrel hood mod worked great as I had no ftf. Be careful cause 3 guns and as well as all competitive shooting gets real addicting REALLY fast. Glad you enjoyed it. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Awesome job!! I had a guy call mine a boat anchor, then he shut up when I won one of the shotgun stages bye almost 8 seconds and finished 2nd in the other shotgun stage. I use number 6 shot and a skeet choke in my 19" and never have a problem with the steel falling quickly . My barrel hood mod worked great as I had no ftf. Be careful cause 3 guns and as well as all competitive shooting gets real addicting REALLY fast. Glad you enjoyed it. i feel the bug already.... "Need" a G17L, CR Speed belt, a bunch of TekLok stuff, better sights, and a lot of practice, lol. I've spent myself blind lately and have sold off almost all of the things that I would want to sell. I'm seriously going to try and keep this simple for a while. If I just stick to this particular club, there won't be another 3 Gun shoot until January. That will give me time to finish my latest AR SBR project Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JaredC 23 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Can you guys who are using your S12's for 3 gun competition post some pics of your set ups. I think Id like to set mine up for this purpose and have some questions and some ideas. Thanks! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I am assuming you did that SEPSA match that was today.I really wanted to make it but due to my current circumstances I couldn't make it out.Those guys put on a good match. I have done 3 gun with them before and heard the same comments only to prove them wrong.A few years ago the guys that run that club gave Hobbyshooter and I some grief when they put on a demo at a local range and when they saw we wanted to run their demo course with S12's they claimed they had never seen one run...etc.We ran the demo course probably a dozen times each with no malfunctions. Sometimes they will do shotgun courses of fire with really high round counts at their matches.It is REALLY fun to see the huge time gaps when you run a mag fed gun with a bunch of guys using tube fed guns manually loading them. Can you guys who are using your S12's for 3 gun competition post some pics of your set ups. I think Id like to set mine up for this purpose and have some questions and some ideas. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Can you guys who are using your S12's for 3 gun competition post some pics of your set ups. I think Id like to set mine up for this purpose and have some questions and some ideas. Thanks! Here's mine.... LOL! RRice, Yes it was SEPSA. I hear ya on the high round count stages. The last one was 30+ steels and 4 paper slug targets. I knew I should have bought more drums and ammo, but I left the house thinking that I probably couldn't even use drums, red dot, or the SBR. I didn't realize that it was an "Outlaw" Match and that the use of the word "Outlaw" actually meant something. You, Hobby, and I should try to all make the next SEPSA 3 Gun in January. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Here's my 3 gun set up. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JaredC 23 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Do you use a certain kind of muzzle break or do you run chokes in 3 gun? Also, what kind of sights/optics would be best? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Do you use a certain kind of muzzle break or do you run chokes in 3 gun? Also, what kind of sights/optics would be best? Almost everyones rig that I saw had a Modified Choke. I'm going to try one of my PolyChokes next time and see if that makes the steel fall quicker at longer distances. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JaredC 23 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I meant what you use when you run an S12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 I run a skeet choke, with #6 shot and it knocks anything down I've run into. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JaredC 23 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 So you dont use one of those choke/brake hybrids Ive seen advertised here? Have you tried them? Also what about sights? I have never competed in a 3 gun so basically Im asking blind as Im not entirely sure what it entails. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 So you dont use one of those choke/brake hybrids Ive seen advertised here? Have you tried them? Also what about sights? I have never competed in a 3 gun so basically Im asking blind as Im not entirely sure what it entails. Unless it is a mid-barrel brake, there isn't a lot of noticeable benefit, if any. Some people say that the Tromix Monster Brake actually offers benefit, but the thing is long and very heavy, for a muzzle device. I am wondering if the weight is mostly what reduces the felt recoil/muzzle rise. The brake/choke combo is just for looks and a PITA cleaning, IMO. I have a couple of PolyChokes and they have 9 settings, including Modified and X Full, so a PolyChoke should do what I need it to do. This experience has me reconsidering my choice of S12 to send TAC47 for the MAG12 install. I may use my 24" now. I built it for shooting clays, but it may be great for knocking down the steel a little faster and I have already done a barrel hood extension on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 This is my current 3 gun rig and the Monster Comp works flawless with Zero recoil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lbsrdi 1,078 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 This is my current 3 gun rig and the Monster Comp works flawless with Zero recoil. Nice looking setup. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 CSS-- no choke? or did you get it internally threaded and then add the comp? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Ha ha Greg, that's the gun that kicked my butt at the last 3 gun. Yes it is internally choke and is fixed to the end of the barrel, that the only reason I don't have one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
geepelton 105 Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) sry double post Edited December 5, 2011 by Rangerguy Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JaredC 23 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I may use my 24" now. I built it for shooting clays, but it may be great for knocking down the steel a little faster and I have already done a barrel hood extension on it. Thats what I have, a 24" barrel. I looked high and low for it just for this purpose. This is my current 3 gun rig and the Monster Comp works flawless with Zero recoil. CSS-- no choke? or did you get it internally threaded and then add the comp? Ha ha Greg, that's the gun that kicked my butt at the last 3 gun. Yes it is internally choke and is fixed to the end of the barrel, that the only reason I don't have one. How would I go about getting mine internally choked? I guess you would have to have the inside of the barrel threaded? Can any gunsmith do this? I really like the set up CSS has, seems to be the best of both worlds. What kind of optics is that? Sorry for all my dumb questions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) Jared, I was entertaining the thought of making my barrel accept Remington chokes. It appears that the bore has to be reamed and then it can be threaded. When I can locate the proper tools, I may post a DIY thread. The best thing about the mod is that certain muzzle devices can still be used on the outer factory threading, like Greg's with the Monster brake (I assume that is Greg posting). Correct me if I'm wrong. ETA: Found 'em. It looks like the tooling will cost about $280-300. I have a friend that is wanting his Mossberg barrel threaded so it can accept Rem chokes, so I may be able to make a little of that back for doing his. I will have 6- S12s by next week, so I can do a few of them and the tool expense will be worth it. Edited December 5, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RRice 34 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Evl,the cool thing about that SEPSA club is that they allow you to shoot "slug targets" with your handgun rather than using slugs.IMO,slug transitions are pointless.I have a rifle for that.That said,if you want to send the steel flying run that polychoke and #4 birdshot.Hell,run #4 and no choke.That stuff knocks everything down. Greg,what rail/top rail is that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gpqueen 545 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Greg,what rail/top rail is that? The gun was built by Jack of JT Engineering. He fitted my CSS Rifle Quad rail which is longer than the shotgun and then cut down the top rail to match the gas system. He also did a left side charge handle. I am 6.3" and like a long reach on the gun so the longer rifle rail allows me to wrap my hand around the front comfortably. He internally threaded the barrel for Rem chokes and shortened the barrel. I am able to change chokes with a 3/8 drive ext. I have used many different guns and this one works best for me and is balanced perfect. I am using the Leupold Delta point triangle dot optic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wade Pruetz 103 Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) That is a great story, sounds like you had a good day. I did great with my wife's 10.5" SBR.... with an Aimpoint T1 that wasn't even sighted in for it , not so great with my G19 (never shoot it), and decent with the Saiga 12. Overall, it was really fun and a lot better than shooting at a static range. The Texas Star gave me a fit though. I wasted a bunch of rounds and time on it. I like it and want to do it again. It was an 'Outlaw' match and I was allowed to run a MD-20. I only brought one MD-20 and a few 5 round mags though and the last stage had 36 targets on it. Two were Texas Stars. the most hits on that stage was 24 and I only hit 18. I learned a lot though. The M.A.G.12 S12 is probably going to end up as a dedicated 3 Gun rig now Thank you, TAC47! Perfect timing! I would love to run my SBR in 3 Gun but we shoot out to 500 yrds in Texas Multi Gun, I don't think my SBR is going to reach out that far with any accuracy. I would also love to run my 10" SBS but the poppers are typically a little far for the birdshot to be effective, we also have slug targets out to 100 yrds. We are running the R&R Targets race gun but Tac47 is getting ready to build me a kick ass race gun in the next few weeks, I will post picks once Keith gets it knocked out. 3 gun is like crack, one hit and you are hooked. Edited December 5, 2011 by NinerRider Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted December 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 (edited) That is a great story, sounds like you had a good day. I did great with my wife's 10.5" SBR.... with an Aimpoint T1 that wasn't even sighted in for it , not so great with my G19 (never shoot it), and decent with the Saiga 12. Overall, it was really fun and a lot better than shooting at a static range. The Texas Star gave me a fit though. I wasted a bunch of rounds and time on it. I like it and want to do it again. It was an 'Outlaw' match and I was allowed to run a MD-20. I only brought one MD-20 and a few 5 round mags though and the last stage had 36 targets on it. Two were Texas Stars. the most hits on that stage was 24 and I only hit 18. I learned a lot though. The M.A.G.12 S12 is probably going to end up as a dedicated 3 Gun rig now Thank you, TAC47! Perfect timing! I would love to run my SBR in 3 Gun but we shoot out to 500 yrds in Texas Multi Gun, I don't think my SBR is going to reach out that far with any accuracy. I would also love to run my 10" SBS but the poppers are typically a little far for the birdshot to be effective, we also have slug targets out to 100 yrds. We are running the R&R Targets race gun but Tac47 is getting ready to build me a kick ass race gun in the next few weeks, I will post picks once Keith gets it knocked out. 3 gun is like crack, one hit and you are hooked. The wife's 10.5" has a N4 barrel. It is an extremly tight shooter. It may not have fragmentation at 500 yards, but see no reason why it would not be accurate with a quality magnified optic. I have a 16" Centurion barreled AR that I built with 3G in mind, but sold the handguard a few days ago and ordered another over a week ago.... which will finally be here Tuesday. I thought it would be here by now, but the vendor got slammed because the sale was so good (30% off!). However, for close range stuff, I am building an 11.5" Centurion Arms barreled SBR. I will post pics soon. It is quite unorthodox and many will find it interesting. A very expensive build though, by the time it is completed. You only live once.... may as well die broke with a safe full of well worn badass weapons. ETA: Didn't realize TAC47 was building race guns now. I know I can't wait to get that MAG12 and some mags for it. I need a Gunfxr LRBHO too.... Edited December 5, 2011 by evlblkwpnz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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