pikapp168 17 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I can pick up a Saiga 12 with drop in tapco furniture for $650 or buy a 1919 for $700. What should I do? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armory 142 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I can pick up a Saiga 12 with drop in tapco furniture for $650 or buy a 1919 for $700. What should I do? This sounds like the beginning of should I get an AR or an AK....................The Next Generation...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RED333 1,025 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 S12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Both! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pikapp168 17 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 I have both. An AK and an AR. I just want some thing different. The two local gun stores I called said they don't carry them because they have issues, but failed to say what kind. Any thoughts. Sorry I'm new Quote Link to post Share on other sites
armory 142 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 S12, but I am biased...Because I am in Love with mine!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pikapp168 17 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Which has less work to fire the cheap stuff and expensive stuff? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 The two local gun stores I called said they don't carry them because they have issues, but failed to say what kind. My experience is gun stores tend to bash and label as junk anything they don't carry. I would have asked them exactly what the issues were. I'm not saying they were lying but I would take it with a grain of salt. Ironically enough gun stores are, generally speaking, not where I'd go it get information about guns. I would skip the S12 with the crapco furniture. I'd either get a stock S12 for even less or the MKA1919. I'd look each decide what upgrades are mandatory and compare prices. I haven't picked up a 1919, although I plan to, so I cannot offer really meaningful direct comparison. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xICEMANx 13 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 The MKA is cool but no hi cap mags. That is the killer for me. Until a vendor makes them, I'll take my s12 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
negev5021 25 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 The MKA is cool but no hi cap mags. That is the killer for me. Until a vendor makes them, I'll take my s12 I have both, and if I had to choose one it would be the 1919. Hi cap mags are comming way, way faster than they did with the s12, and if your making the investment, you have at least $150 in crap to buy for the S12 to get it "restored" to what the 1919 already is. The 1919 has drop free mags, better safety on/off, and top rail where a top rail belongs (optics on the S12 is difficult - not impossible, but difficult) So if mags are due in march, your talkin 30 days before you have a gun that will take you 30 days to make the Saiga. You will have the same costs for highcap mags either way, and will need to add stock/grip/FCG and magwell to get to the where the 1919 starts... just buy 1919 mags when they come out and your done. I love the Saiga - but it took work to get going - lots. I shoot 3 gun and mag fed is so much faster than tube guns its unreal. But when you compare 2 mag fed guns the Saiga falls short - unless you have magwell, Krebs safety for shooting hand manipulation, and right side charging handle - all of which are additional costs to the conversion. I am happy to have both and have no problem using the Saiga untill mags show up, but after high caps are on for the 1919, I feel I will be shelving the Saiga.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pikapp168 17 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 Excellent info! Thank you for the honest reply. I love the S12 but there's just something about the 1919. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
xICEMANx 13 Posted January 31, 2012 Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 The MKA is cool but no hi cap mags. That is the killer for me. Until a vendor makes them, I'll take my s12 I have both, and if I had to choose one it would be the 1919. Hi cap mags are comming way, way faster than they did with the s12, and if your making the investment, you have at least $150 in crap to buy for the S12 to get it "restored" to what the 1919 already is. The 1919 has drop free mags, better safety on/off, and top rail where a top rail belongs (optics on the S12 is difficult - not impossible, but difficult) So if mags are due in march, your talkin 30 days before you have a gun that will take you 30 days to make the Saiga. You will have the same costs for highcap mags either way, and will need to add stock/grip/FCG and magwell to get to the where the 1919 starts... just buy 1919 mags when they come out and your done. I love the Saiga - but it took work to get going - lots. I shoot 3 gun and mag fed is so much faster than tube guns its unreal. But when you compare 2 mag fed guns the Saiga falls short - unless you have magwell, Krebs safety for shooting hand manipulation, and right side charging handle - all of which are additional costs to the conversion. I am happy to have both and have no problem using the Saiga untill mags show up, but after high caps are on for the 1919, I feel I will be shelving the Saiga.... Wow hi-cap mags are coming out that quick? Who's manufacturing them? Any word of a drum? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pikapp168 17 Posted January 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2012 This is def great info. I think I am going to get the MKA 1919. I'm gonna probably have a gun smith cut the stock so I can do the adapter piece to add a 6 position stock. Any georgia guys local that could help? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
negev5021 25 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 The MKA is cool but no hi cap mags. That is the killer for me. Until a vendor makes them, I'll take my s12 I have both, and if I had to choose one it would be the 1919. Hi cap mags are comming way, way faster than they did with the s12, and if your making the investment, you have at least $150 in crap to buy for the S12 to get it "restored" to what the 1919 already is. The 1919 has drop free mags, better safety on/off, and top rail where a top rail belongs (optics on the S12 is difficult - not impossible, but difficult) So if mags are due in march, your talkin 30 days before you have a gun that will take you 30 days to make the Saiga. You will have the same costs for highcap mags either way, and will need to add stock/grip/FCG and magwell to get to the where the 1919 starts... just buy 1919 mags when they come out and your done. I love the Saiga - but it took work to get going - lots. I shoot 3 gun and mag fed is so much faster than tube guns its unreal. But when you compare 2 mag fed guns the Saiga falls short - unless you have magwell, Krebs safety for shooting hand manipulation, and right side charging handle - all of which are additional costs to the conversion. I am happy to have both and have no problem using the Saiga untill mags show up, but after high caps are on for the 1919, I feel I will be shelving the Saiga.... Wow hi-cap mags are coming out that quick? Who's manufacturing them? Any word of a drum? I only heard March by someone here... I have no further info... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pikapp168 17 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 That is good news. Technically someone had one built already right? The skull one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mudoven 0 Posted February 1, 2012 Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 The latest Shotgun News (Feb. 1) has an interesting article on the MKA1919...unfortunately, I only own the Saiga12, not the MKA1919...so I can't fairly poo-poo the MKA1919 other than it's lack of customization (way more Saiga stuff out there). It may be better than the Saiga, it may be worse....fondle/shoot both if you get the chance, then decide for yourself which to invest in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pikapp168 17 Posted February 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2012 great advice. Unfortunately no range has both to shoot. MKA 1919 is hard to find. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
incognito485 26 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 The two local gun stores I called said they don't carry them because they have issues, but failed to say what kind. My experience is gun stores tend to bash and label as junk anything they don't carry. I would have asked them exactly what the issues were. I'm not saying they were lying but I would take it with a grain of salt. Ironically enough gun stores are, generally speaking, not where I'd go it get information about guns. I would skip the S12 with the crapco furniture. I'd either get a stock S12 for even less or the MKA1919. I'd look each decide what upgrades are mandatory and compare prices. I haven't picked up a 1919, although I plan to, so I cannot offer really meaningful direct comparison. Exactly. And alot of times its a person that has no experience or knowledge of the gun. I've heard gun salesmen telling people straight up lies so they would buy a gun. I got into a mild arguement over a S-12 in a gun shop (CTD) with a sales guy that was incompetent. He told me that the S-12 has NEVER been under $800, and that it was converted and obviously wasn't. Needless to say he eventually walked away with his tail tucked between his legs knowing his info was shit, and now is a little more open to other people's advice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper 19 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 The MKA is cool but no hi cap mags. That is the killer for me. Until a vendor makes them, I'll take my s12 I have both, and if I had to choose one it would be the 1919. Hi cap mags are comming way, way faster than they did with the s12, and if your making the investment, you have at least $150 in crap to buy for the S12 to get it "restored" to what the 1919 already is. The 1919 has drop free mags, better safety on/off, and top rail where a top rail belongs (optics on the S12 is difficult - not impossible, but difficult) So if mags are due in march, your talkin 30 days before you have a gun that will take you 30 days to make the Saiga. You will have the same costs for highcap mags either way, and will need to add stock/grip/FCG and magwell to get to the where the 1919 starts... just buy 1919 mags when they come out and your done. I love the Saiga - but it took work to get going - lots. I shoot 3 gun and mag fed is so much faster than tube guns its unreal. But when you compare 2 mag fed guns the Saiga falls short - unless you have magwell, Krebs safety for shooting hand manipulation, and right side charging handle - all of which are additional costs to the conversion. I am happy to have both and have no problem using the Saiga untill mags show up, but after high caps are on for the 1919, I feel I will be shelving the Saiga.... Wow hi-cap mags are coming out that quick? Who's manufacturing them? Any word of a drum? The drum is a dream. Probably. BUT it is unwieldly for 3 gun. MAYBE for the start of a stage but I will take 10-12 round sticks over the drum all day long. Not to say I wouldnt buy one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Montana3gunner 13 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 On big 3 gun stages full of shot targets, it's hard to compete against a drum (if it runs). Reliability and loading speed are the two biggest factors with the shotgun in 3 gun. Slug accuracy is quickly becoming a factor as well, but that is easier to overcome than the other two. The MKA's load speed potential is fantastic, and so far there are reports of excellent reliability. I would love to have a drum and about 4 - 10 to 12 round stick mags for matches like the MGM Iron Man and the Montana Mult-gun. I'll keep some 5 round mags too, for slugs and specialty rounds. Shooting mine for the first time, later today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper 19 Posted February 12, 2012 Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 Which has less work to fire the cheap stuff and expensive stuff? Akdal hands down. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scary Poppins 1 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 IMO, depends how much you currently want to spend. Sure, if you have $2k and want hi-cap mags now, go for a used Tromix s12. On the other hand, if you have $600 and want a project for 2012, go for the MKA-1919. Hi cap mags, ect will be avail June sometime. Gives us all a couple months to save money for conversions, although we can buy most parts now if we want. It basicly goes back to the AK/AR arguement... which reminds me... When will Tony develop an AK gas system for the MKA-1919? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper 19 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 ... When will Tony develop an AK gas system for the MKA-1919? WHY? I think you may be forgeting this shotgun is in no way a direct impingement system like the AR. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 This is a no-brainer. The only reason you should get a 1919 is if you already have an S12. The S12 is the baseline of these type of weapons that any newcomers like the 1919 should be compared to. The 1919 hasn't proven anything yet. Yeah, it looks real promising but it doesn't have the history, the track record, the wealth of knowledge, and all the "goodies" that go with the Saiga right now. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pikapp168 17 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 I decided to go with the MKA 1919. I don't mind being an early adopter. I also like that I own something that no one else has. It should be in on Friday. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper 19 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 This is a no-brainer. The only reason you should get a 1919 is if you already have an S12. The S12 is the baseline of these type of weapons that any newcomers like the 1919 should be compared to. The 1919 hasn't proven anything yet. Yeah, it looks real promising but it doesn't have the history, the track record, the wealth of knowledge, and all the "goodies" that go with the Saiga right now. Keep thinking that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 This is a no-brainer. The only reason you should get a 1919 is if you already have an S12. The S12 is the baseline of these type of weapons that any newcomers like the 1919 should be compared to. The 1919 hasn't proven anything yet. Yeah, it looks real promising but it doesn't have the history, the track record, the wealth of knowledge, and all the "goodies" that go with the Saiga right now. Keep thinking that. I see no reason not to keep thinking that. Your brilliant response sure as hell didn't sway me. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jasper 19 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 This is a no-brainer. The only reason you should get a 1919 is if you already have an S12. The S12 is the baseline of these type of weapons that any newcomers like the 1919 should be compared to. The 1919 hasn't proven anything yet. Yeah, it looks real promising but it doesn't have the history, the track record, the wealth of knowledge, and all the "goodies" that go with the Saiga right now. Keep thinking that. I see no reason not to keep thinking that. Your brilliant response sure as hell didn't sway me. Denial isnt a river as they say. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 My local gun store has great staff. While hanging out there I noticed that when someone would ask to see the S12 they would also bring out the 1919. They explained that they are both popular and the same buyers seem to be interested in both. I'm intrigued by the 1919 and look forward to hearing more reports and seeing more mods and add ons. I know the OP has already decided but I can't help but list the comparison points as I see them. S12 pros: lots of goodies already made reliable (sometimes with work) proven design furniture etc shares with many Kalashnikovs (sometimes with mods) many magazines available it's an AK, duh. S12 cons: can require a lot of work to be reliable depnding on factory sobriety level limited optics options without mods 1919 pros: looks like an AR Metal magazines 1919 cons: basically a remington 1100 with detachable mags wearing an AR costume no hi cap mags, and no, don't cite rumors (still waiting on an MD DS roll-out). Just as with the S12 it may take a while for RELIABLE mags to be made unproven reliability (I've shot 2, one was perfect, one was a useless turd) reliability mods not yet developed difficult breakdown poor parts/accessories availability lots-o-plastic, feels like shooting a very loud super-soaker made in Turkey, Turkey for god's sake! (though I love their version of the mauser) Really folks, if Turkey made an passenger jet... Would you fly in it? saying the name Akdal 1919 makes it sound like you're in the Taliban Ok, I probably left out the whole drop-free-mag thing, but I don't run a mag well on my S12, I guess it's necessary when all you have is factory 5 rounders (which are metal, YAY!). I have tried the 1919 and didn't like the hollow plastic feel (a fault it shares with the AA12), but it was an addicting gun never the less. The reliable one I've fired (one friend has one that won't cycle a whole mag in a row, the other buddy's one has not failed once) I shot was great, and since I mostly use 5 rounders in my S12 I didn't feel hampered by it's small mag cap. For all the logical reasons against the 1919 every trip to the gun store I handle one, every trip to the range I ask my buddy to bring his. Congratulations on your new gun, please post a review once you have it in hand. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pikapp168 17 Posted February 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Thank you and I know things will role out to the market soon. I think it is a good choice though. When I get it, what ammo should I shoot first? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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