New Auto Plug - less than expected results

[saiga12-er 5]

I recently ordered an Auto Plug from the forum's e-store and tried it out today. The test firing and overall results were not as I had expected.

 

With the stock gas plug I was able to shoot cheap low brass ammo no problem after touching up the gas ports, but wanted the Auto Plug as convenience to be able to go from low to high brass without the need to change the settings on the stock or other after market gas plugs.

 

Shooting today (first time) with the Auto Plug, I could not shoot many low brass without FTE. The best I got was 4 in a row with the stock mag. And yes, I know how to adjust the Auto Plug. I have read the instructions and watched the You tube movie clip several times. Needless to say there was no reason to shoot any high brass.

 

Again, keep in mind I could shoot continually without failure with the stock plug - even shooting from the hip. However, with the stock plug I had to have it in an odd rotation to have the plug in the position for max gas pressure. Sure a little Dremel work and I could cut another de-tent so the lock pin would hold the rotation. But keep in mind this post is about the Auto Plug and not how to make do with the stock plug.

 

Are there many known cases of Auto Plug's being defective? The adjustment does work to an extent because out of the box it did not function low bras at all and as I progressively tightened the adjustment the functionality changed accordingly. But when I ran out of adjustment and still could not shoot without FTE I started to wonder.

 

If I decide to go with another after-market plug, which one seems to have the best performance? I was really hoping to have a functioning Auto Plug so I could shoot most anything without making adjustments. But if I have to go with a manual adjustment plug - then, so be it.

 

Any suggestions?

[datrowl 111]

Autoplug is a convenience, its not a magic fix all.... in order to handle everything with one setting you give up some grey area around the lowest power and very highest power shells.... what you could adjust out manually may not be within working range of the autoplug unless your gun is tuned to perfection from the start..... have you done any polish/reprofile work at all to your bolt? just a little polish may be enough to bring everything back inline within the realm of the autoplug...

[Lidocaine Looney 26]

"However, with the stock plug I had to have it in an odd rotation to have the plug in the position for max gas pressure."

 

This has me wondering.. Did you screw the stock plug all the way in and then back it out to the #2 detent and no further? Or did you continue to back it out to some "odd rotation"? I just wonder if you didn't have it so the stock plug was letting more gas through than supposed to/it usually does and maybe this was giving the gun an illusion of performing better with the stock plug than it actually does. If so, put it to where it should be and get the gun shooting consistently and then try the autoplug.

[Guns Are Great 140]

+1 datrowl

I have the MD arms V-plug and my settings on a 4 port gun with ports drilled are still 4&5, but 3 does okay with really good hi-power ammo. However, in SHTF type stuff = setting #5 for any position sure firing. Plugs are definitely not a fix all. I think the V-plug helps direct the gas flow well, but I just cant see the amount being larger than the #2 setting on that factory plug! Maybe just some more fine tuning will get you what your looking for. Say a plug is $25 but if your bolt, carrier, and FCG aren't profiled and polished then that may bring you the results you desire with the auto plug. Thats $25 towards a pro profiling & polishing job. You could get a few supplies and do it your self and then test to see if you get better results with your work. If you do then sending to pauly, cobra, or others may fix the situation. and you haven't sent the $25 on another plug and then more for some fine tuning? Anyone around you got a plug you can just test out of their gun? V-plug or another autoplug?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Guns Are Great

[saiga12-er 5]

Autoplug is a convenience, its not a magic fix all.... in order to handle everything with one setting you give up some grey area around the lowest power and very highest power shells.... what you could adjust out manually may not be within working range of the autoplug unless your gun is tuned to perfection from the start..... have you done any polish/reprofile work at all to your bolt? just a little polish may be enough to bring everything back inline within the realm of the autoplug...

 

I had previously polished (by use of a Dremel) the bolt to where it looked almost as good as Pauley's Glass Bolt pics that are on the forum. In addition I polished everything I could that is a moving part or is in contact with a moving part that did not require more than a routine field strip. After polishing it was MUCH better in regards to smooth function.

 

Strangely enough, when shooting today it would perfectly shoot/cycle the Wal-Mart Federal Game Load (part # H121 6) I bought 11-2009 which is 2-3/4 1oz #6 bird shot @ 1290fps which is a very low-brass cheap load at about (in 2009) $4.57/ box-25. But the Federal Target Load (part # TGL12 7.5) 2-3/4 1-1/8 oz # 7-1/2 bird shot @ 1145fps $4.87/box-25 would not do better than 4 rounds before a FTE and that was with the Auto Plug at max pressure adjustment.

 

BTW, the Federal Target load I used today has the words "Top Gun" stamped on the shell. Even though they are a bit slower in velocity I think they are probably the same charge. The reason for the 145 fps drop in velocity is understandable considering it is pushing a 1/8th oz. more lead than the other load.

 

I have seen a few plugs advertised with 4 and even up to 5 settings for about $25.00. I might end up going that way. But I will give the gun a good cleaning including gas system and try it all again. Considering I re-drilled my gas ports and know the gun has ample gas as it would shoot BOTH types low brass ammo I mentioned - if it still has a problem with the 7-1/2 shot I could either try another plug or just use the #6 shot low brass as it is basically the same cost.

 

Not to get off topic and start another string from this post, but I have concluded that the Wal-Mart "economy packs" of 100 rounds are not the cheapest way to go. At my Wal-Mart the economy/bulk packs run about $21.87 (Federal) or about $22.87 (Remington) plus tax. 4 individual boxes of Federal Game Load $4.87/box is cheaper. 4 x $4.87 = $19.48 plus tax.

Edited March 12, 2012 by saiga12-er

[armory 142]

Autoplug is a convenience, its not a magic fix all.... in order to handle everything with one setting you give up some grey area around the lowest power and very highest power shells.... what you could adjust out manually may not be within working range of the autoplug unless your gun is tuned to perfection from the start..... have you done any polish/reprofile work at all to your bolt? just a little polish may be enough to bring everything back inline within the realm of the autoplug...

 

I had previously polished (by use of a Dremel) the bolt to where it looked almost as good as Pauley's Glass Bolt pics that are on the forum. In addition I polished everything I could that is a moving part or is in contact with a moving part that did not require more than a routine field strip. After polishing it was MUCH better in regards to smooth function.

 

Strangely enough, when shooting today it would perfectly shoot/cycle the Wal-Mart Federal Game Load (part # H121 6) I bought 11-2009 which is 2-3/4 1oz #6 bird shot @ 1290fps which is a very low-brass cheap load at about (in 2009) $4.57/ box-25. But the Federal Target Load (part # TGL12 7.5) 2-3/4 1-1/8 oz # 7-1/2 bird shot @ 1145fps $4.87/box-25 would not do better than 4 rounds before a FTE and that was with the Auto Plug at max pressure adjustment.

 

BTW, the Federal Target load I used today has the words "Top Gun" stamped on the shell. Even though they are a bit slower in velocity I think they are probably the same charge. The reason for the 145 fps drop in velocity is understandable considering it is pushing a 1/8th oz. more lead than the other load.

 

I have seen a few plugs advertised with 4 and even up to 5 settings for about $25.00. I might end up going that way. But I will give the gun a good cleaning including gas system and try it all again. Considering I re-drilled my gas ports and know the gun has ample gas as it would shoot BOTH types low brass ammo I mentioned - if it still has a problem with the 7-1/2 shot I could either try another plug of just use the #6 shot low brass as it is basically the same cost.

 

Not to get off topic and start another string from this post, but I have concluded that the Wal-Mart "economy packs" of 100 rounds is not the cheapest way to go. At my Wal-Mart the economy/bulk packs run about $21.87 (Federal) or about $22.87 (Remington) plus tax. 4 individual boxes of Federal Game Load $4.87/box is cheaper. 4 x $4.87 = $19.48 plus tax.

 

I was able to cycle fine on the Autoplug using Federal. What puck are you using?

You aren't leaking around the threads are you? I have heard of some Autoplugs doing that.

Edited March 12, 2012 by armory

[saiga12-er 5]

"However, with the stock plug I had to have it in an odd rotation to have the plug in the position for max gas pressure."

 

This has me wondering.. Did you screw the stock plug all the way in and then back it out to the #2 detent and no further? Or did you continue to back it out to some "odd rotation"? I just wonder if you didn't have it so the stock plug was letting more gas through than supposed to/it usually does and maybe this was giving the gun an illusion of performing better with the stock plug than it actually does. If so, put it to where it should be and get the gun shooting consistently and then try the autoplug.

 

Yes, I screwed it all the way in and backed it out to what I referred to as an "odd rotation". Meaning that the lock pin had no de-tent to lock into, but the top edge of the bevel on the stock gas plug (inside gas block area above gas ports) was basically perfectly horizontal over the barrel thereby allowing the least amount of gas restriction from the ports to the piston.

 

BTW, I had previously re-drilled my gas ports (four) to 5/64th's per recommendation from this forum. After doing so and upon test fire I thought the gun may be a bit over-gassed, but I was okay with that as I intended to simply throttle it back at the gas plug if needed.

[saiga12-er 5]

Autoplug is a convenience, its not a magic fix all.... in order to handle everything with one setting you give up some grey area around the lowest power and very highest power shells.... what you could adjust out manually may not be within working range of the autoplug unless your gun is tuned to perfection from the start..... have you done any polish/reprofile work at all to your bolt? just a little polish may be enough to bring everything back inline within the realm of the autoplug...

 

I had previously polished (by use of a Dremel) the bolt to where it looked almost as good as Pauley's Glass Bolt pics that are on the forum. In addition I polished everything I could that is a moving part or is in contact with a moving part that did not require more than a routine field strip. After polishing it was MUCH better in regards to smooth function.

 

Strangely enough, when shooting today it would perfectly shoot/cycle the Wal-Mart Federal Game Load (part # H121 6) I bought 11-2009 which is 2-3/4 1oz #6 bird shot @ 1290fps which is a very low-brass cheap load at about (in 2009) $4.57/ box-25. But the Federal Target Load (part # TGL12 7.5) 2-3/4 1-1/8 oz # 7-1/2 bird shot @ 1145fps $4.87/box-25 would not do better than 4 rounds before a FTE and that was with the Auto Plug at max pressure adjustment.

 

BTW, the Federal Target load I used today has the words "Top Gun" stamped on the shell. Even though they are a bit slower in velocity I think they are probably the same charge. The reason for the 145 fps drop in velocity is understandable considering it is pushing a 1/8th oz. more lead than the other load.

 

I have seen a few plugs advertised with 4 and even up to 5 settings for about $25.00. I might end up going that way. But I will give the gun a good cleaning including gas system and try it all again. Considering I re-drilled my gas ports and know the gun has ample gas as it would shoot BOTH types low brass ammo I mentioned - if it still has a problem with the 7-1/2 shot I could either try another plug of just use the #6 shot low brass as it is basically the same cost.

 

Not to get off topic and start another string from this post, but I have concluded that the Wal-Mart "economy packs" of 100 rounds is not the cheapest way to go. At my Wal-Mart the economy/bulk packs run about $21.87 (Federal) or about $22.87 (Remington) plus tax. 4 individual boxes of Federal Game Load $4.87/box is cheaper. 4 x $4.87 = $19.48 plus tax.

 

I was able to cycle fine on the Autoplug using Federal. What puck are you using?

You aren't leaking around the threads are you? I have heard of some Autoplugs doing that.

 

Stock puck. May want to scan over my post again. As mentioned,I can use one Federal low brass just fine. But another Federal low brass does not do well at all.

 

The Federal Game Load works perfect. The Federal Target Load that has the words "Top Gun" stamped on the shell is very problematic. Currently the prices on either is $4.87/box-25

 

The Game Load is 1oz of #6 and the Target Load is 1-1/8 oz of #7-1/2 shot.

 

When adjusting the Auto Plug, I do not have to tighten down the adjustment too far (maybe half way) to fire the Game Load, but even with it adjusted all the way down, the Target Load will not get more than 4 rounds off before a FTE.

[armory 142]

Does it feel tight in the threads? Some people have complained of gas leakage.

Is the "top gun" 3 dram?

Nevermind, I found it, the Top Gun is 2.75 dram versus the 3 dram for the other Federal.

There' the difference.

Edited March 12, 2012 by armory

[saiga12-er 5]

Does it feel tight in the threads? Some people have complained of gas leakage.

Is the "top gun" 3 dram?

Nevermind, I found it, the Top Gun is 2.75 dram versus the 3 dram for the other Federal.

There' the difference.

 

The threads feel perfect. I just looked at the Federal website and I am wrong (perfect example of why to not assume) on the power being the same. The Target Load is 2.72 DRAM and the Game Load is 3.25 DRAM.

 

Unfortunately I do not know anyone in my area that has a V-plug (or comparable) that I could try. I am not rich by any means, but spending $25.00 on a V-Plug or similar (even though it may not deliver the results I am looking for) is not much a concern to me.

[clifton 354]

"However, with the stock plug I had to have it in an odd rotation to have the plug in the position for max gas pressure."

 

This has me wondering.. Did you screw the stock plug all the way in and then back it out to the #2 detent and no further? Or did you continue to back it out to some "odd rotation"? I just wonder if you didn't have it so the stock plug was letting more gas through than supposed to/it usually does and maybe this was giving the gun an illusion of performing better with the stock plug than it actually does. If so, put it to where it should be and get the gun shooting consistently and then try the autoplug.

 

Sounds to me your short on Gas still, and I am not sure what odd rotation you have to be in for your shotgun to cycle, but I would not consider it normal until your gun can cycle not in a odd rotation. The Bottom Line is if your gun will not work with the autoplug you dont have enough gas, to cycle the ammo choice you have selected. 2nd if you have to put your plug in some odd rotation, to get it to cycle it does not sound like you have enough gas to cycle the ammo choice you have selected normally. When you have to tweak your stock plug to cycle, your are under gassed, By how much is not known you could be on the verge of cycling pressure but it still means your under gassed.

[saiga12-er 5]

"However, with the stock plug I had to have it in an odd rotation to have the plug in the position for max gas pressure."

 

This has me wondering.. Did you screw the stock plug all the way in and then back it out to the #2 detent and no further? Or did you continue to back it out to some "odd rotation"? I just wonder if you didn't have it so the stock plug was letting more gas through than supposed to/it usually does and maybe this was giving the gun an illusion of performing better with the stock plug than it actually does. If so, put it to where it should be and get the gun shooting consistently and then try the autoplug.

 

Sounds to me your short on Gas still, and I am not sure what odd rotation you have to be in for your shotgun to cycle, but I would not consider it normal until your gun can cycle not in a odd rotation. The Bottom Line is if your gun will not work with the autoplug you dont have enough gas, to cycle the ammo choice you have selected. 2nd if you have to put your plug in some odd rotation, to get it to cycle it does not sound like you have enough gas to cycle the ammo choice you have selected normally. When you have to tweak your stock plug to cycle, your are under gassed, By how much is not known you could be on the verge of cycling pressure but it still means your under gassed.

 

I think some things have gotten or been taken out of context during the course of all the replies. So with that I will reaffirm exactly where I am at.

 

With the Stock gas plug the shotgun works perfectly in the appropriate position 1 or 2 with various magnums, various high brass or low brass Remington bulk ammo and Federal Game Load low brass.

 

The problem lies with and only with Federal "Target Loads" part # TGL12 7.5 which is a 2.72 DRAM load.

 

Federal "Game Load" part # H121 6 has a 3.25 DRAM and works perfect along with anything else equal to and above.

 

Please note that both loads are budget Federal low brass ammo both costing $4.87 a box/25

 

It is with only the Target Load that I have to have the stock gas plug slightly backed out, which positions the bevel on the gas plug in such manner that it is providing the least amount of gas restriction.

 

I think at least most of us are aware of a common problem with Saiga threading for the gas plug and that is the starter threads (either on gas tube, plug or both, but I believe more inherent on gas tube) which can affect the final resting position of the bevel on the gas plug. I have seen pics of one where in position 1 or 2 ( do not recall which) the plug was positioned in such a way part of the gas ports were obstructed.

 

I wish I could find that pic again. I saw it on this forum by mere chance when I was not even looking for anything plug related. Therefore I did not book mark it.

 

And it was on this forum where I read about the thread positioning affecting the gas plug position and that some Saigas 2 position plugs can in a sense be only a 1 position in such case.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

All of these run great with Winchester /Universal and Federal/Target. The non-M.A.G.12 guns do it well with MD-20s too. They all have Autoplugs.... your weapon needs more work or you need to stick to Federal/Multi-purpose.

 

Edited March 12, 2012 by evlblkwpnz

[SOUPCAN 0]

Yeah I have a suggestion, return the autoplug and put the old plug back on. It was working, why dick around with it.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Wow, with an attitude like that why even bother buying an S-12 in the first place when a plain old Mossberg can do the same job?

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Yeah I have a suggestion, return the autoplug and put the old plug back on. It was working, why dick around with it.

I have a better suggestion. The OP can trade the Autoplug to me for a factory regulator and I'll post a Flawless 100 round Winchester Universal/MD-20 dump video with that same Autoplug

[TwentyNizzo 66]

Has anyone actually done any semi-scientific testing on the Autoplug to demonstrate if it actually works any better than simply permanently setting the stock gas plug to setting 2? I've never been convinced that it actually works as a "true" auto plug because every video I've seen of it in action, the high brass is ejecting what seems 2-3x farther than the low brass. Given it's relatively inexpensive, I would actually like to try one out,

Wow, with an attitude like that why even bother buying an S-12 in the first place when a plain old Mossberg can do the same job?

 

Actually, he's got a good point.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

I couldn't care less if it works better, all I care about is that it blows debris out of the gas block while shooting and it makes the recoil pulse the same no matter what I'm shooting through the weapon.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I couldn't care less if it works better, all I care about is that it blows debris out of the gas block while shooting and it makes the recoil pulse the same no matter what I'm shooting through the weapon.

I agree.

 

The Autoplug does release gas and that is more desirable than all of the gas staying in the system when firing stronger loads as one would experience with a factory regulator on the 2 setting. +1 for the Autoplug

[FunkedOut 91]

just to be clear, all of this post (including the quote) is about the factory plug, not the autoplug.

 

...I think at least most of us are aware of a common problem with Saiga threading for the gas plug and that is the starter threads (either on gas tube, plug or both, but I believe more inherent on gas tube) which can affect the final resting position of the bevel on the gas plug. I have seen pics of one where in position 1 or 2 ( do not recall which) the plug was positioned in such a way part of the gas ports were obstructed.

 

I wish I could find that pic again. I saw it on this forum by mere chance when I was not even looking for anything plug related. Therefore I did not book mark it.

 

And it was on this forum where I read about the thread positioning affecting the gas plug position and that some Saigas 2 position plugs can in a sense be only a 1 position in such case.

 

the threads orientation would only affect which position (1 or 2) would be the first setting you back out to after bottoming out.

the gas ports being partially obstructed is solely a relationship of the bevel and the detents.

 

if you bottom out, unscrew the plug and the first setting you get to is 2, you'll have to go further to reach setting 1.

this means you'll have a little more gas getting through on setting 1 than if setting 1 was the first. setting 2 will not be affected.

[kyvtx1300 5]

I have noticed with the Autoplug, that it focuses the gas much differently that the factory plug. even with it all the way tight, it will not perform the same way as a factory plug. The angle and shape of the opening to the gas ports is very small. I got mine working great and stopped making changes, but I was going to dremel out the sides of the gas opening on the Auto Plug so it would direct the gas a little differently more similar to the facroty plug. I thought that if the rotation was not exactly perfect, that the small bottom opening on the autoplug could be blocking gas, opening the bottom a little so it could catch all the gas possible could help. I didn;t check the opening when I had the gas tube removed to see if it was perfectly alligned.

[clifton 354]

I have noticed with the Autoplug, that it focuses the gas much differently that the factory plug. even with it all the way tight, it will not perform the same way as a factory plug. The angle and shape of the opening to the gas ports is very small. I got mine working great and stopped making changes, but I was going to dremel out the sides of the gas opening on the Auto Plug so it would direct the gas a little differently more similar to the facroty plug. I thought that if the rotation was not exactly perfect, that the small bottom opening on the autoplug could be blocking gas, opening the bottom a little so it could catch all the gas possible could help. I didn;t check the opening when I had the gas tube removed to see if it was perfectly alligned.

 

Unless your Gas Ports are obstructed by your gas block then your auto plug When the ports are at ten and two centered in your Gas Block have the corresponding 180 degree location of your auto plug gas opening.