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Sweetest Trigger for Saiga Conversions?


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#1 undertoad

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:20 PM

I pushed the button and have one on the way.

I'd appreciate opinions from anyone on what is the best trigger to get.

Thanks!

#2 GunFun

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:26 PM

If you want to spend ~$70, then RSA adjustable. Red Star Arms.

If not, then modify a $30 G2 Double hook forover travel , and ad a spacer to limit pretravel. Polish everything that needs polishing.
It is not necessary or beneficial to remove the second hook as shown here. mainly, cut the step in the front, and use a washer on your trigger guard screw to control the pre-travel where it shows to add material by welding.
Attached File  G2 Trigger Mods.JPG   167.76KB   72 downloads

Most people here use a tapco G2 and haven't tried anything else, so that is what most are going to say.
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#3 hutchsaiga

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:32 PM

If you want to spend ~$70, then RSA adjustable. Red Star Arms.

If not, then modify a $30 G2 Double hook forover travel , and ad a spacer to limit pretravel. Polish everything that needs polishing.
It is not necessary or beneficial to remove the second hook as shown here. mainly, cut the step in the front, and use a washer on your trigger guard screw to control the pre-travel where it shows to add material by welding.
Attached File  G2 Trigger Mods.JPG   167.76KB   72 downloads

Most people here use a tapco G2 and haven't tried anything else, so that is what most are going to say.


Absolutely nothing wrong with the g2. Actually it's leaps and bounds better than 95% of other assault rifle triggers.

Saigas arnt meant to be bench rest rifles, a g2 is an excellent combat trigger.
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#4 GunFun

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:54 PM

I didn't say anything is wrong with a G2. I said RSA is nicer. It is. It is easily adjustable for many things, and has noticibly better machining. It is smoother out of the box, but I would polish any trigger on a very fine diamond hone before installing anyway. You can set it up for single or two stage pull, and adjust how much tension the disconnector spring has. It comes with the spring too. While you can make a g2 pretty nice, you can't do that stuff with one. It can also be adjusted for safe operation with a shorter overall trigger travel than can be done with a G2.

My IZ108 has a nicely modified double hook G2. I answered the OP's question: Which is nicest. There are plenty of adequate triggers, and he wants a nice one. With the modification, it is acceptable to me, and feels nicer than most AK triggers I have used.

I can make do with lots of triggers, but I prefer a nice one. To me, bench rest rifle or shotgun, a nice trigger is better than a rough sloppy stiff one with a long pull. Other people don't care and that is fine too.

Extra info: other choices are TWS trigger which owners say good things about those. The consensus seems to be that Arsenal's trigger for the S12 is not as good as the cheaper G2. I don't own one so I can't give personal experience with either of those.

Edited by GunFun, 20 April 2012 - 06:57 PM.

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#5 undertoad

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:21 PM

I thank you both for taking the trouble to answer.

As a side note, the T-rex doing pushups really made me howl with laughter.
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#6 GunFun

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Posted 29 October 2012 - 07:24 PM

People have been asking me about this a bit lately, so I figure I will try to shove all the info into one thread. I know for a fact there are old threads with lots of good pictures including some that show welded equivalents, and releiving clearance as is sometimes needed on Arsenal hooks....

Anyway, here are some crummy pictures of an RSA trigger group. The bit you need to see is the silver washer that the trigger can rest on in the back. I could not get good pictures in the IZ108 with modified G2, because I used a square piece of steel painted black to match into the receiver. It is in the same place as the fender washer. Anything metal will work there if it is the right thickness and you have a simple way to keep it stationary. IMO the easy way is to use the rivet or screw that holds the back of your trigger guard on the outside to hold the spacer on the inside.


Attached File  0229122122.jpg   121.62KB   102 downloads

Attached File  0229122119.jpg   90.65KB   62 downloads

Attached File  0229122122c.jpg   113.01KB   133 downloads

Updated trigger mod picture

Attached File  G2 Trigger Mods.JPG   179.48KB   163 downloads

And to answer a few other questions that usually crop up at the same time:

Attached File  hooks_all.jpg   105.75KB   131 downloads


Attached File  Shepard__s_Crook_options.jpg   34.65KB   61 downloads

Attached File  trxtrgword.jpg   98.26KB   41 downloads

Edited by GunFun, 29 October 2012 - 07:31 PM.

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#7 dkhiza

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 09:24 PM

Gunfun +1.
I have the RSA on a 308 saiga and love it. It's a great two stage "match" trigger, but I used the G2 on a 223 saiga and saiga 12. The modified G2 on mine is clean, crisp, and breaks the same every time. Both RSA and G2 are well worth the money.

#8 varickm

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 12:32 AM

Red Star all the way.

#9 ak karl

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 02:08 AM

Arsenal 2 stage

#10 GunFun

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Posted 26 January 2013 - 08:42 PM

Just because this question often comes up at the same time, here is Chile's picture of what needs done to your BHO.

 

Note:

1) keyhole for safety to pass through.

2) notch for spring to stay put. oh. he didn't do this one. It's pretty simple. take a sharpie and draw a line where the spring rests on the BHO. then take a hacksaw blade or dremel disk and cut a slight groove so that the spring cannot move.

 

Attached File  Chile's BHO.jpg   118.75KB   23 downloads



#11 emr454

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:11 PM

People have been asking me about this a bit lately, so I figure I will try to shove all the info into one thread. I know for a fact there are old threads with lots of good pictures including some that show welded equivalents, and releiving clearance as is sometimes needed on Arsenal hooks....

Anyway, here are some crummy pictures of an RSA trigger group. The bit you need to see is the silver washer that the trigger can rest on in the back. I could not get good pictures in the IZ108 with modified G2, because I used a square piece of steel painted black to match into the receiver. It is in the same place as the fender washer. Anything metal will work there if it is the right thickness and you have a simple way to keep it stationary. IMO the easy way is to use the rivet or screw that holds the back of your trigger guard on the outside to hold the spacer on the inside.


attachicon.gif0229122122.jpg

attachicon.gif0229122119.jpg

attachicon.gif0229122122c.jpg

 

 

I just did this mod today to my 7.62 and S-12, but used a piece of .060" kydex I had laying around. So far so good. May or may not replace them with washers or a sheet metal square.

 

Eric


When the hammer drops, the BS stops.

MOLON LABE!

#12 GunFun

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Posted 26 February 2013 - 11:25 PM

I would advise sheet metal for durability. Not that I really expect the kydex to fail, but a piece of metal retained by rivets or your PG nut isn't going anywhere.

 

Glad it helped someone.



#13 emr454

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 07:12 AM

I would advise sheet metal for durability. Not that I really expect the kydex to fail, but a piece of metal retained by rivets or your PG nut isn't going anywhere.

 

Glad it helped someone.

 I used the bolt at the rear of the trigger guard to hold it in, much like your washer pic. However when I did my conversion, I drilled the hole for the rear of the trigger guard a little too far forward, and I couldn't get a washer in there. I could easily make one out of sheet metal though.

 

Eric


When the hammer drops, the BS stops.

MOLON LABE!

#14 Salmonking

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 09:43 PM

I used a Tromix modded Tapco G2, and installed a set screw in the rear of the trigger guard to act as an "adjustable trigger set screw."  Works like a charm and was dirt cheap. 



386181_10150586777754256_1014333491_n.jp


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#15 GunFun

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Posted 27 February 2013 - 10:09 PM

That works too.



#16 TxAgSaiga1979

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 02:27 AM

I have a Dinzag arms two-stage on most of my Saigas; they work wonderful.

 

I am working on a DMR build and probably going to use an RSA, just because I want short creep and a light pull across the second stage.



#17 GunFun

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Posted 08 December 2013 - 04:25 AM

You will be pleased with RSA. If you have a fine ceramic knife sharpener, give it an extra polish before installing, then follow the directions to the letter.

 

I also suggest doing doing a brief range session attempting to simulate an unintentional  bump fire, before using  the loctite. Don't go too light on the disconnector spring tension.



#18 GunFun

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 02:07 PM

I'm going to stick these pictures from google image here to give a clearer idea of what portions of the hammer to address. Note that you really aren't removing any material from the little patch that strikes the firing pin. Just the surfaces on either side, and maybe a little to square it up to the bolt's tail. HammerUnmodified.jpg

 

HammerModified.jpg


I've been pointing people to this thread for a while, and it was lacking the pictures I thought I had stuck in here. Note that tromix and other drop-in triggers don't smooth resistance from the hammer, they just remove the bumps that keep it from being able to swing, and shorten the axle. And the axle is shortened one-size-fits-all. In some guns that can allow for sloppy fit of the BHO level allowing excess side play and some problems. People get mad at the BHO and rip it out, but really a hand fit of the axle or a washer to remove the slop would solve their gripes.



#19 Ak Monty

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 03:01 PM

I read an article in rifle firepower I think it was about modding a normal trigger into a 2stage like trigger. I cant remember exactly how they did it buy it ended up that as you pulled the trigger at the last bit the disconnector would touch the hammer and cause a slightly heavier pull atthe last bit of take up.

#20 GunFun

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 07:18 PM

It's pretty straight forward. Basically all AK triggers are 2 stage unless you tune the disconnector to eliminate the second stage. But most are too crude to be a nice crisp second stage. 

 

Take off the dust cover and slowly dry fire your trigger group. You'll see a point during the trigger pull where the hammer is still on the hook(s), but you are pushing the disco out of the way. That's stage 2.



#21 TxAgSaiga1979

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Posted 30 July 2014 - 05:57 AM

It depends on what you intend for the rifle. I prefer the Dinzag Arms trigger for general use and battle rifle configurations. It is simple, and has a crisp second stage. Only downside is a lot of creep, by most people's standards (normal by ak standards).

For a DMR, I recently purchased my first RSA trigger. It took quite a bit of time to get it adjusted exactly the way I wanted it, but was well worth it. Short creep, light pull, not as crisp a second stage as I would like, but it works, works well, and helps make for a more accurate rifle.

#22 GunFun

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Posted 09 August 2014 - 05:25 AM

 

 


Hammer pics were too big to upload.


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#23 GunFun

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Posted 19 June 2016 - 12:42 PM

Replacement pics for the hammer profile:

 

Here's another one off of google. This one is OK, but a little slim, and has a lot of superfluous polishing in unimportant areas. You want a little more meat so that the strike face hits squarely on the bolt tail, and also so that the hammer wing goes well past the disconnector as the carrier slides past.

 

Attached File  Hammer Picture from Google.jpg   5.08KB   1 downloads

 

Here are some pictures I just took out of one of mine. Note how when it is in the fired position there isn't a gap at the top or bottom of the bolt tail. Also only the areas that contact things have any polish work to them.

 

Attached File  Strike angle.jpg   128.89KB   1 downloads

 

Attached File  Smooth shape where needed.jpg   132.38KB   1 downloads

 

Attached File  Left side.jpg   99.03KB   1 downloads

 

 Attached File  Right Close.jpg   105.25KB   1 downloads

 

A few more comments: I've polished and trued things that matter, but not things that are just for looks. So: Top, underside and edge of receiver rails. The last picture shows a few scratches left from their press brake, but the carrier glides smoothly past these. No need to thin them more to go further. 800 grit was more than plenty.

 

Casting ridge removed from hammer wing in the center. Flattened, polished trued. Ditto for matching surface on disconnector. Ditto for hook and the part of the wing which engages the hook.

 

The hammer face is still kinda fat, but it's smooth where it counts. The shape is optimized for it to move as little as possible throughout the carrier's travel. Over grinding leaves a bad strike angle, no room for wear, and has it moving up and down a lot as the carrier goes by.

 


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#24 Another-Saiga-Fan

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Posted 28 July 2016 - 07:55 PM

@ GunFun it’s been a while since I’ve posted anything hardware related. That said last week I purchased another ALG AK Trigger and installed it in my #2 Saiga 7.62x39. I removed the Tapco double-hook and repurposed in my S223 with your trigger job. I’ve been around a little while and knew you had this procedure out there but never followed up on it until this week. It was pretty straight forward but took a little time.  I notched out the front as in your image but took a little different approach on the rear for the pre-travel. I cut a washer in half and JB Welded it to the back side of the trigger after scratching the surfaces up on the tail piece to get a better bond with the JB Weld

 

The reason I went that route was because I sent my S223 away for one of those AR to AK mag conversion and I don’t know if they used permanent Loctite on the trigger guard screw or not so this seemed like a decent option so I didn’t have to disturb the threads. It came out well. Thanks for the detailed write up otherwise I would not have not attempted this. I functioned tested and I’m seeing safe operational limits in both directions.  

 

 

i1wax3.jpg



#25 JDeko

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 01:18 AM

Very happy with my Cobra's Custom trigger set and OTL


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#26 DPH

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 08:02 AM

Arsenal 2 stage 


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#27 Heartbreaker

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Posted 09 August 2016 - 09:42 AM

My Tapco G2 (trigger job by Cobra) pulled at 3.5#, and I just put in a JTE reduced hammer spring and it's now 2.25# and still 100% reliable with Federal. It's pretty ridiculous for a combat shotgun but hey, I'm not complaining about an awesome trigger. That is compared to my Mossy 590 with a 7# trigger.
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