preparehandbook 326 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 Easy fellas, damn! Is it not a good thing to share and discuss ideas to learn? I have a feeling that if a certain guy from Georgia had a hand in this for whatever reason, its probably not too far fetched.... Even if it turns out to be "hocus pocus", whats the harm in hearing about it or gathering info from it? Sure as shit beats all the NEWB threads titled "My Saiga wont run" or "My Saiga is broken, help me"! I agree, you're right. I just kinda get going..... I have to admit, it did make me seriously consider trying porting my gas block. I am nothing if not wildly inconsistent Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shotgun12 205 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 I have a Brita water filter attached to my gas tube to filter the fouling from getting by. I only need to change the filter once a month! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JefFamous 6 Posted April 25, 2012 Report Share Posted April 25, 2012 <Insert seemingly witty one liner> 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted April 26, 2012 Report Share Posted April 26, 2012 (edited) ...An idea come up with by a guy who can't figure out how to cut and paste an article?... To be fair, I know more than a couple (older) guys who are very mechanically inclined and intelligent but still can't use teh interwebz fer shit. Edited April 26, 2012 by post-apocalyptic 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadsled 40 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 I hate to be "that guy", but...... If all it took to clear fouling was a couple of ports in the gas block.... Wouldn't a company, one of the premier weapons manufacturers in the world, the current employer of Mikhail - fucking - Kalashnikov, a research and production facility with an impressive list of accomplishments: AK-47 AKM AK-74 AN-94 AK101 AK103 AK107 AK-12 SAIGA-12 SAIGA SELF LOADING CARBINES SKS SV-98 SVD SVDS PP-19 BIZON MOSIN NAGANT SVT-40 YUNKER GSH-30 CANNON KRASNOPOL GUIDED SHELL A company that has done EXTENSIVE research into gas system venting and who has shown excellence and great wisdom in producing the most fouling resistant weapons EVER FUCKING INVENTED since the FUCKING WAR HAMMER. This company.... Never thought of this idea? An idea come up with by a guy who can't figure out how to cut and paste an article? Well pardon me if I'm a little dubious. Seems like the fucking company did a lot of thinking about the fucking shotgun................... http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum_pictures/000243/thm/243062.jpg Isn't this the way yours looked like out of the box? Probably, because I'm sure you gave the fucking approval to the factory to implement these changes. Do you slap kids around when they come up with an idea you didn't think of? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 I think your sig line fits your response and this ported gas block idea very well... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
leadsled 40 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 along with that awesome color scheme...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted April 29, 2012 Report Share Posted April 29, 2012 Yeah and flawless function as well, it's amazing, I know, no need for accolades. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 I hate to be "that guy", but...... If all it took to clear fouling was a couple of ports in the gas block.... Wouldn't a company, one of the premier weapons manufacturers in the world, the current employer of Mikhail - fucking - Kalashnikov, a research and production facility with an impressive list of accomplishments: AK-47 AKM AK-74 AN-94 AK101 AK103 AK107 AK-12 SAIGA-12 SAIGA SELF LOADING CARBINES SKS SV-98 SVD SVDS PP-19 BIZON MOSIN NAGANT SVT-40 YUNKER GSH-30 CANNON KRASNOPOL GUIDED SHELL A company that has done EXTENSIVE research into gas system venting and who has shown excellence and great wisdom in producing the most fouling resistant weapons EVER FUCKING INVENTED since the FUCKING WAR HAMMER. This company.... Never thought of this idea? An idea come up with by a guy who can't figure out how to cut and paste an article? Well pardon me if I'm a little dubious. Seems like the fucking company did a lot of thinking about the fucking shotgun................... http://i2.guns.ru/fo.../thm/243062.jpg Isn't this the way yours looked like out of the box? Probably, because I'm sure you gave the fucking approval to the factory to implement these changes. Do you slap kids around when they come up with an idea you didn't think of? Yes, I did get factory permission before I did EACH and EVERY modification, evidence presented below: Dear Izmash, I have one of your fine Saiga 12 Shotguns, I was thinking of removing the thread protector and replacing it with a flash suppressor, Is this OK with you guys? -P. Handbook Dear P. Handbook, Thank you for choosing Saiga, we do not mind if you apply a muzzle break, please consult your manual. You do not need our permission. -Izmash Dear Izmash, Hi, me again. I was going to use a different magazine in My Saiga 12, is this okay? -P. Handbook Mr Handbook, AFtermarket magazines may require minor fitting. Please stop writing us. -Izmash Dear Izmash, I'm planning on removing my stock for a bulgarian skeleton stock. Do I have your approval? -P. Handbook Mr. Handbook, Please leave us alone, it is your gun to do with as you please. STOP WRITING US! -Izmash Dear Beloved Izmash, Thank you for approving my prior modifications to my S12. I was thinking of brightening my front sight with some white paint. Is this okay? Any reccomendations from Mr Kalashnikov on how to go about this? -P. Handbook Mr Handbook, Mr Kalashnikov has suggested shoving your shotgun up your ass to brighten the front sight, go away, stop bugging us, never, ever, ever write us again. -Izmash. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) ^ It's Izhmash, squirrel-boy. I agree with your general point, though. Edited April 30, 2012 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 (edited) Would a soviet leftover innovate in any way if they could get away with making the same item for 60 years with no improvements? Absolutely. They are still making knock offs of WWII German motorcycles at IZhmash, and they only modernised the electrical system in the last few years because even people in India thought they were getting long in the tooth. If they were innovative and not just trying to get away with the least they could do, The S12 would have had the following old tech features from day one: Straight insert magazines, LRBHO, Auto gas regulators, solidly mounted rails where optics should go, a decent sight radius, a whole lot less wasted empty space and bulk in the receiver, ambi safety, ambi charging. Each of these are things that have been issued on AK variants or other military guns for over 40 years. Oh, and it should have been short gassed from the start. At the minimum it would save weight. What else should be on any gun presently manufactured? How about modular barrels that can be removed and swapped? Is that a crazy new idea that IZH is holding off on until it is proven worthy? Also for you worshipers of the clever tank mechanic... I respect his innovation, but get real. He is a mascot. Do you really think he has had anything to do with S12 design or any development for the last 20 years? He's smart, but he isn't J.M. Browning. His job is to do press conferences, wave for the camera, and put his name on vodka. Oh-- and from what he has said, it pains him that the AK is being used for any purpose other than defending the Soviet state. He hates that you have AKs in America. Don't forget that. Edited April 30, 2012 by GunFun 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted April 30, 2012 Report Share Posted April 30, 2012 If they were innovative and not just trying to get away with the least they could do, The S12 would have had the following old tech features from day one: Straight insert magazines, LRBHO, Auto gas regulators, solidly mounted rails where optics should go, a decent sight radius, a whole lot less wasted empty space and bulk in the receiver, ambi safety, ambi charging. Each of these are things that have been issued on AK variants or other military guns for over 40 years. Oh, and it should have been short gassed from the start. At the minimum it would save weight. i'd be happy with a 12ga vz58, after i got done wiping the semen out of my shorts i would order 3 or 4 right away Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Would a soviet leftover innovate in any way if they could get away with making the same item for 60 years with no improvements? Absolutely. They are still making knock offs of WWII German motorcycles at IZhmash, and they only modernised the electrical system in the last few years because even people in India thought they were getting long in the tooth. If they were innovative and not just trying to get away with the least they could do, The S12 would have had the following old tech features from day one: Straight insert magazines, LRBHO, Auto gas regulators, solidly mounted rails where optics should go, a decent sight radius, a whole lot less wasted empty space and bulk in the receiver, ambi safety, ambi charging. Each of these are things that have been issued on AK variants or other military guns for over 40 years. Oh, and it should have been short gassed from the start. At the minimum it would save weight. What else should be on any gun presently manufactured? How about modular barrels that can be removed and swapped? Is that a crazy new idea that IZH is holding off on until it is proven worthy? Also for you worshipers of the clever tank mechanic... I respect his innovation, but get real. He is a mascot. Do you really think he has had anything to do with S12 design or any development for the last 20 years? He's smart, but he isn't J.M. Browning. His job is to do press conferences, wave for the camera, and put his name on vodka. Oh-- and from what he has said, it pains him that the AK is being used for any purpose other than defending the Soviet state. He hates that you have AKs in America. Don't forget that. "They are still making knock offs of WWII German motorcycles at IZhmash" You are thinking of IMZ, or maybe even KMZ. IZH makes the Planeta series of motorcycles which are single cylinder 2 strokes of a relatively modern design (if you think the 1970's are modern) IMZ, Irbitskiy Mototsikletniy Zavod (motorcycle factory in Irbit) makes the URAL which is distantly descended from german designs. KMZ, Kievski Mototsikletniy Zavod (motorcycle factory in Kiev) Makes the Dnepr, also descended from the same german motorcycles. Kievski Mototsikletniy Zavod is not to be confused with Krasnogorskiy Mechanicheskiy Zavod who make cameras. I worked with and for IMZ, KMZ and IZH during the Russian bike import wars of the 90's and if you've ridden a modern IMZ or KMZ in the US you have seen the benefits of my design alterations to their crankcase ventilation. Personally I found IZH motorcycles to be rather hopeless and also completely unable to meet US emissions, though they are, like the AK, kriepke. (the above paragraph provides enough clues for someone saavy enough to figure out my real name) Sadly I have never gotten to meet or work with anyone from any other IZH divisions (where they make the fun stuff) nor have I ever met Mr Kalashnikov. We did have in our employ a man who had worked with Mr Kalashnikov, he was an old Stalinist general who had a couple degrees in engineering and who had spent years designing helicopters. He worked as a janitor sweeping out or shops, a sad fate for a proud old soldier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted May 2, 2012 Report Share Posted May 2, 2012 Very interesting. I was of the impression that Izhmash was parent company to IMZ, and was referring to the Ural. That is all interesting and I would love to hear about it. My point in making the analogy was to defend the OP's efforts to improve his gun against the weak argument that if something was a worthwhile feature Izhmash would have already included it. Institutions isolated from market pressure for half a century aren't known for a drive to innovate and improve. While the utility of venting your gas block is debatable, I applaud the initiative in testing an idea with the aid and consultation of competent gunsmiths into a gun that runs well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
preparehandbook 326 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 Very interesting. I was of the impression that Izhmash was parent company to IMZ, and was referring to the Ural. That is all interesting and I would love to hear about it. My point in making the analogy was to defend the OP's efforts to improve his gun against the weak argument that if something was a worthwhile feature Izhmash would have already included it. Institutions isolated from market pressure for half a century aren't known for a drive to innovate and improve. While the utility of venting your gas block is debatable, I applaud the initiative in testing an idea with the aid and consultation of competent gunsmiths into a gun that runs well. IZH may indeed own IMZ. The main point you were trying to make is obviously correct. My saying that because IZH had some great accomplishments they would not have overlooked an option like the OP's mod was spurious at best and ridiculously flawed at worst. I feel that I unfairly critiscized the OP's experiment and wantonly cut-and-pasted a bunch of wikipedia info to bolster my case. If someone was to have a dozen or so gas blocks to play with I'm geussing the OP's venting idea could be refined into a very efficient self cleaning gas system, Not to say that his current modification does not work. I stand corrected on every front and readily admit the error of the argument I made. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted May 3, 2012 Report Share Posted May 3, 2012 I see no reason to experiment with dozens of gas blocks to refine the idea when there's already a better mousetrap available that also regulates gas pressure. When the autoplug vents, it blows a majority of the debris in the gas block out, then it closes and keeps unwanted material out of the gas block. If I had the choice of taking a properly gassed autoplug equipped s-12 in to battle against a vented gas block s-12, I'd choose the auto plug equipped s-12 because I wouldn't have to avoid water or mud... Plus, I wouldn't have to worry about long-term damage to the weapon because of dirt and sand scoring the cylinder of the gas block... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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